This sub doesn't have explicitly clear rules so there is subjectivity in their interpretation. I often message the mod thread to discuss things I'm not sure about.
DMs are not required no, I'm suggesting it as a tool when there is conflict becuase it can help for both sides to see where each other is coming from.
Again, if you were in the Codesmith subreddit you would get banned and deleted, and all you would see are positive comments supporting me.
If you ignore me and don't discuss, you will be banned.
Do you think that world would be better, if all the negative comments (whether they support me or not) are deleted and the authors re banned?
The history is that I was made a mod because it was becoming a cease pool of spam and negativity and I was tasked with improving it.
1. If you weren't here before then please explain how it got that way before I was a mod?
2. In the spirit of transparency, what's your agenda for being here if you 20 years of industry experience?
The fact that you calling this out without even talking to me has the same pattern as the Codesmith people
⚠️ WARNING: Codesmith subreddit is mostly propaganda (resharing Codesmith content without full context and boosting with positive comments from accounts that mostly post about Codesmith only). Challenges and negative comments are called "lies" and you get banned. BE SMART AND THINK CRITICALLY.
NOTE: I'm not saying the content itself isn't true or that it's bad intentioned, but I am saying that it's marketing material that missing context and it's likely the people sharing it don't even realize this. I've accumulated a lot of information over the years and while I see a **A LOT OF GOOD THINGS CODESMITH IS DOING,** the outcomes have changed dramatically in 2023-2024 and these materials are not reflecting that.
**DISCLAIMER: these are my personal opinions using publicly available information and my own insights.**
**MODERATOR NOTE: any comments talking about my own company will be delete…
There's a difference between saying "my opinion is that the numbers on your website are deceptive" and "your numbers are deceptive"
unless a person currently contains evidence that the numbers are illegally deceptive then one of these statements is an opinion that is totally fine and the other is libel.
Those comments were deleted because the person is personally attacking in the comments and was previously warned. In my opinion, it's the equivalent of misgendering someone intentionally or calling someone a nickname they asked you to not call them. I flagged this to the other moderators in case they have different opinions and want to allow them.
Line by Line Rebuttal to Codesmith CEO dodging question about placement rates in a challenging market
**DISCLAIMER: these views are my personal opinions as I see them and they don't represent anyone but me.**
u/WillSen If you call yourself the best of the best, you need to hold yourself to that bar and respect others who are holding you to that bar too by responding with facts and arguments to every challenge rather than ban people who point out things you don't want to answer. I'm unable to reply in the Codesmith subreddit because I'm permanently banned.
Anyways, someone asked the Codesmith CEO in an AMA today [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1dofj3a/comment/la9fv9w/)
>There has been a large share of skepticism towards the results that Codesmith claims to produce with job acquisition rates, salaries, etc. since the company does not share its raw data, e.g., claimin…
2024 Bootcamp Predictions [MIDYEAR CHECKIN AND UPDATES!]
The past two years I've been making bootcamp predictions and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18ivago/2024_bootcamp_predictions_mega_post_revisiting_my/) is a link to my 2024 ones from six months ago.
I want to share my background for context in the spirit of openness and transparency. I try to write the best content I can, but everyone has biases and it's important to evaluate ones biases for every post you read.
BACKGROUND: I co-founded a mentorship platform and work with many bootcamp graduates as they progress in their careers and I'm a heavy contributor (and moderator) of this sub. Before this, I was at Facebook from 2009 to 2017, where I grew from intern to E7 principal engineer, conducted over 450 interviews, and participated in hiring committees. I keep in touch with hundreds of my former colleagu…
SimilarGlass5: 100% of comments about Codesmith (past 4 years)
Mean\_Rough1137: 100% of comments about Codesmith
Infinite-Platform-78: 100% of comments about Codesmith
A bunch of the other accounts on my list are permanently banned from Reddit.
I also want to know why these people do what they do with fake accounts.
The "Modern Software Engineer": Refuting the "lawyer engineer" and instead an argument for Specialization + Collaboration
Hey everyone, friendly neighborhood moderator sharing my person opinions on this topics for all of you getting into software engineering. My background is started programming with QBasic and Lego Mindstorms when I was 12, worked at Meta from 2009 to 2017 (from \~200 engineers to \~10,000 engineers) and was the #1 code committer when I left. And since then have started a mentorship and interview prep platform for people with several years of experience who are changing jobs or want to prepare to change jobs. NOTE: I have some amount of bias because I work with a number of bootcamp grads later in their careers. While my company doesn't compete with bootcamps directly, I want to openly disclose my background so you can interpret my comments better.
PURPOSE: I'm writing…
I started a mod thread about this and was encouraged to ban all of you, which I'm not doing because I think that's wrong.
But seriously get it together and stop making stuff up, just ask and believe my answers or discuss them without making false accusations. If you don't trust me and I'm a moderator and you don't like this place, leave and go spend your time more effectively elsewhere.
I got banned from the Codesmith sub, from Codesmith CSX Slack, permanently banned from all Codesmith events, for pointing out an alumni placement they were highlight is no longer employed at the company they said he was.
Not all communities are for everyone and if this one isn't for you, you can leave!
Reddit removed your post I think, wasn't me and not sure if my reply will go through, but I'm replying anyways:
1. 100% agree one of the things that comes with being open is that you should be reasonably questioned and that's the critical part to being open. On the other hand, it's not open seasons to anonymously attack me (which you aren't doing Ludo and you aren't anonymous, but others have over the years).
2. I don't know what to say, I logged into our Google Ads account and spent time to confirm myself and the only keyword we are targeting with the word bootcamp in it is "formation bootcamp" and it had 0.2% of all impressions compared to all of our keywords. Google Ads use all kinds of algorithms to display you ads and we are not targeting any other terms with "bootcamp" in it and most of the impressions are for variations of "interview prep".
If you don't think I'm lying on the r…
Unofficial Analysis: a top bootcamp's 2023 grad placement rates APPEAR TO DROP ALMOST HALF from 2022 grad placement rates (from about 80% to 45%). Even the best can't beat the market right now. [Illustrative only, may contain errors]
DISCLAIMER: I'm a moderator of this sub and I'm the co-founder of mentorship and interview prep platform aimed at helping existing SWE's prepare for upcoming interviews and level up their SWE jobs. We do not compete with bootcamps but I have a conflict of interest because we work with a bunch of bootcamp grads later in their careers. More bootcamp grads === more customers in a couple years, so I believe I have a bias to encourage people to go to bootcamps rather than be doom and gloom on the industry like this post largely is. BUT having worked with so many bootcamp grads I think it's imperative people have as much information as possible if they are inve…
We don't tend to remove people and I don't know. The handful of people we have removed are people that paused for person life circumstances and then never came back. People ramp up or down and go at their own pace, so it really depends on the pace the person wants to work at and our system supports whatever.
If Formation isn't a good fit and people are not progressing towards their own goals and we don't think Formation was effective that we have talked to case by case to leave and be partially refunded based on the activity the person did but this is also a single digit percentage non-generalizable case.
We don't have a generalized way of removing people.
That's why we have people with us for months and for years and it's impossible to provided high level aggregated data and stats that mean anything.
I mean facts are facts, and upvoting and downvoting doesn't change them. People can follow me and downvote all my comments, doesn't make then false.
People in the bootcamp industry need honesty and transparency. They do not need the next level of manipulation: using transparency as a marketing tool, they need straight up open communication from the source.
This Codesmith AMA blog is no where near open communication from the source and no one is engaging in tough questions. The moderator told me not to reply to anything.
Nothing is perfect but if Codesmith doesn't confront it's imperfections it's going to fall apart, they seem to be intentionally spewing out user and student information, source code, and content all over the place and are upset AT ME for reading it and make me out to be some creepy person spying on them. They need to get their stuff together instead of putting lipstick…
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
(Reposting my answer to the question because my previous one was removed and I'm not sure why)
/u/[annie-ama](https://www.reddit.com/user/annie-ama/): I talk on Reddit a decent amount about data, and I'm a fan of all data with scientifically reproducible methodologies so people can tell where it came from and evaluate it. CIRR's standard is full of ambiguous or not well defined sourcing requirements as well. Still a decent standard and I like that it requires enough info so people can calculate certain important things on their own.
I mean Codesmith website wrongfully says that $127,500 is the "Software Engineering Immersive Grads Median Annual Base Salary" without any asterix or adjacent explanation of that term.
The actual number is the "median annual base salary of graduates that placed and reported salaries" not of all graduates.
I'm much more concerned about that than our number…
Yeah I can't share much because people send me stuff in confidence, and since I can't share the evidence, you can't value that statement either, so I understand.
I don't know what's happened since the CIRR stuff came out but lots of accounts came out of nowhere that were a lot meaner.
Until the recent changes Codesmith underwent, I recommended it to a lot of people 1-1 for whom it was a good fit, and I'm pretty sure that some of their leaders know that. I still talk to those students while they are in Codesmith and then afterwards.
It's not so cut and dry, and I wish the people jumping straight to attacks would give me more wiggle room to present both sides. I'm not perfect, but I'm very fair. I was invited to be a moderator because I'm seen as a disciplined, high integrity person who is very responsive.
Several\_Top is no longer a mod of r/Codesmith as of today.
Another moderator said this announcing the sub: "Hey everyone! My name is \[A\] and I am a CSX student. I work full-time as a remote analyst. I discovered Codesmith through Reddit and also through a friend who has gone through the program. We saw that there wasn’t a subreddit for Codesmith so myself and a few others have started r/codesmith. We want to invite everyone to join, especially those who are new to Codesmith like me!"
And stated that it's not affiliated with Codesmith at all.
Several\_Top stated that they were an alumni of Codesmith and has shared inside information about Codesmith in the past (leaked screenshot from an [Alumni presentation](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1apcrg5/83_of_job_offers_from_codesmith_in_2023_were/) - , so being a founding moderator of the sub would look bad and go again…
CIRR appears to be done and irrelevant now - Codesmith needs to get off the Titanic before it sinks (Personal Opinion)
As many are aware, [CIRR](https://cirr.org/) started out a business-league from Skills Fund to try to standardize bootcamp outcomes in the early days of bootcamps.
While CIRR's stated goals were to create transparency in the Bootcamps industry, it was ultimately not a charity - and was a business league, like the Chamber of Commerce, whose practical value was promoting and marketing for it's member bootcamps (who pay fees to be members) that did particularly well. So as bootcamps started doing terribly - particularly in 2022 -> 2023, a lot of those backers left.
**You can see this in how important "transparency" was when bootcamps were doing well, and how quickly and efficiently they posted outcomes, and how when outcomes are terrible everything comes to a halt - this…
The challenge of posting here is they will be directly confronted by me - with my personal hat on, not moderator hat and not Formation hat - in a neutral territory about the three topics I have person opinions on:
1. Constant, loud statements that they product mid-level and senior engineers with zero experience
- I think this is the one we can debate well, because it's a definitions issue, and a debate over what definition Codesmith should use to communicate accurately to the public
2. OSP representation. I would never accuse them of explicitly telling people to lie because there is only evidence of the contrary. But I would not accept any other comments on anything without an explanation as to why they let the majority of people who get jobs exaggerate their experience and if they weren't aware, what they will do about it now that they are.
- I think this one would be scary for Code…
The last time I interacted with Don prior to this live session was December 8th, 2023, and he had no idea I was going to be there, nor did I, I joined when I saw the push notification about a live session reviewing Reddit posts.
At the beginning (edited out) he opened CodingBootcamp, CSCareerQuestions, ExperiencedDevs and scrolled through the first couple of posts looking for ones to talk about.
There was a lot of odd posts prior to the one Don reviewed that were removed by both mods and Reddit-level admins, so I suggested that post as the most reasonable RECENT post. I then found two more posts that were much older way past the fold about self teaching vs bootcamps, and cs degrees that I recommended as well. And he started with the Codesmith one.
META COMMENTS:
There's been a lot of suspicious posts regarding Codesmith over the past few days (all over the spectrum, good and bad, and from a lot of brand new accounts, people have gotten banned)
This post is from a brand new account that seems created to write about Codesmith, which is a bit suspicious too.
That said, the factual content about the logistics of Codesmith all reads accurate. I don't work there and haven't gone there, so maybe I shouldn't be the judge of that, but I've seen the entire curriculum, and have private been told of certain little details around "family dinners", the clapping stuff, etc... that either someone is training a on all my public commentary about Codesmith, or this person - if not actually a resident - is pretty close to Codesmith.
OVERALL:
It sounds like you probably shouldn't have chose to go into Codesmith to begin with because your style do…
Hi, I looked this up, and I don't feel like I was super involved in that post or thread, but sorry you feel that way. I do indeed participate in a lot here, which I hope encourages and stimulates productive discussion more than discouraging people from participating.
I have absolutely zero intention or standing (moderator or not) to doubt or question your personal experience as you see it. I have full intention and full right, just as a user, to question extrapolations and statements beyond personal experiences. So saying something like "I feel like I learned all the DS&A I needed at Codesmith" is not something I would question. Saying "Codesmith absolutely teaches you all the DS&A you need for any job" would be something I would absolutely question, because I have a examples that strongly counter that. This might be subtle but I think it's a huge difference that I take very seriously.…
I know the mods attitude is to only delete things that are very clearly violations and really blatant. Not to apply opinions and not to judge in the gray area.
I think the most borderline Codesmith-related thing I deleted that was in the multi-year long queue when I was added as a mod was a comment from 1 year ago that said 3000 Codesmith grads has mid-level and senior jobs that was reported for misinformation and there is first hand sources from Codesmith that show that that was not correct a year ago. But maybe that's one step too much judgement? I wouldn't delete ANY comment that was an opinion or just 'felt wrong' or something very vague like that.
Maybe TMI, when I was clearing out the queue I approved comment I HAD REPORTED MYSELF like 2 years ago THAT INSULTED ME, but I didn't think met the threshold for removal with my mod hat one.... kind of weird hahaha.
Yeah I think all that is fair. I just don't see how the person in that post would know I became a moderator unless they were on here very recently and noticed that I happened to be a moderator.
And yeah I mean I don't expect Eric K to ever like me, and I think if I had switched up the language a bit when I talk to Formation Fellows about a startup that closed down 10 years ago, and someone was just harping on that, it would be a bit irritating. I would probably message them and be like hey, this is what went down, and I was trying to summarize the experience maybe too casually and I'll be careful with how I talk about it in the future.
Anyways, I don't have anything personal against Eric K, maybe it's like politicians debating, who co-exist professionally but don't really see eye-to-eye.
I also don't think my personal treatment matters whatsoever and I'm not going to discourage anyone…
I'm happy to respond to this point by point, but **if this is real, the timestamp is accurate, and it's one of the leaders (i.e. Eric K or Will)** then I'm going to reconsider recommending anyone go to Codesmith instead of just pausing that recommendation like I did when the new changes came out. Why? 1) they are directly admitting to being involved with this subreddit, and 2) they are continuing to be defensive and vaguely dismissive instead of providing specific examples, and it doesn't sound like anything has changed.
MY PERSONAL RESPONSES:
1. **Most importantly this post is clearly admitting to being extremely involved on this subreddit after being fairly dismissive of that in the past.**
- I became a moderator like three days ago-ish, it wasn't announced anywhere, and the Codesmith person is already aware, so they are clearly paying attention to Reddit closely
- "We've had grads…
I agree yeah generally speaking, but they removed the times from the website so it's not entirely clear if the times will change. They have been soliciting feedback on the times for a while.
FEEDBACK FOR CODESMITH (OPINIONS):
1. The blog post should have had more logistics for the students impacted instead of half defending how great Codesmith is before discussing any of the changes.
2. The website should have been updated in tandem because it's very confusing right now
3. Staff should have been around when the blog went out to assist and support people
4. Will should have written a letter in his name about all that Codesmith has accomplished over the years as a preface to alumni and to the public, and then a SEPARATE LETTER from a Shanda about the program changes written to students and future residents about logistic changes that was more tactical and less marketing.
They didn't say explicitly but what they did say:
- The March 4th cohort sounds like the last one that will run the old way
- I would guess they will have a transition time where the instructors of all these cohorts are kept on to wrap things up and co-teach the first 1-2 cohorts before moving on to other things outside of Codesmith. So maybe as they transition the first "new" full time remote cohort will be taught a little differently with multiple lead instructors? No idea, good question! **This is exactly why I'm pausing recommendations until all the day to day details are out** and we see what happens
- All the cohorts are still on the website through July, but staff were removed from the upper section and the new times were placed there instead. So it seems only partially rolled out.
I'm acting as a moderator because there is an ongoing conversation that OP is involved with making very large claims about Codesmith with I've seen first hand evidence of some of those claims. Some public messages called out certain individual Codesmith employees resulting in the account being suspended and the person appears to be trying to steer the conversation in a constructive direction with this new post.
It sounds like you made the right choice going to Codesmith and it's a fit for you. Some people don't like the "cringe moments" and some alumni, as they get real industry experience, feel like people there don't "know their shit", but instead know how to portray that they "know their shit". You won't be able to judget that until you are in the industry for a few years, but regardless, it doesn't mean the experience can't be effective at helping the right people find jobs.
Where…
Interesting. Yeah I work with a number of people at Formation that have 1. done Outco before, 2. mentored at Outco. (Disclosure: Outco is a direct competitor to my company)
I used to recommend people look into Interview Kickstart, Pathrise, Outco, and Coachable, (and to some extend Interviewing.io if not looking for a holistic program) as the set of competitors around DS&A and interview prep.
But I removed Outco because they removed their application online and their website is wonky and seems not maintained.... it still says Copyright 2017.
Someone who did Outco recently before Formation also affirmed that in their experience Outco seemed to be running on autopilot with recordings and peer mock interviews and they felt like it wasn't really operating anymore.
I know they are a competitor so I want to triple emphasize this is just what I've observed and heard about Outco in my perso…
If you want to redo the deep dive I did, look at court records, secretary of state records, and contact the people involved in the deal. It costs a lot of money to get those records, I spent about $100 doing so because this is a very serious claim that's core to Eric's identity so if it's not true I need irrefutable evidence of what happened because making sure a claim.
I'm happy to chat over DM about more about the process I did. People can make official "off the record" comments and statements so there is some things I can't talk about ethically, but I can go over the process I used if you wanted to try to repeat it.
The summary of the story is that the company wasn't doing well, Aaron left in 2013 to go back to ESPN (and is now the CTO of Disney's online services) and was down to two engineers in 2014. They got sued in early 2014 for copyright infringement and shortly after those tw…
And other people are concerned about Codesmith 'finding them and suing them' (almost a direct quote from someone but changed to protect the person) and don't even post at all.
For example the recent negative post about Codesmith was deleted, and another recent one deleted their account entirely, two other people contacted me who feel like they were "paid off" (both direct quotes in their words, not mine) after complaining about various things at Codesmith (one internally, one on Reddit who they found).
Clearly this is not healthy in both directions but clearly there are reasons why it is this way that haven't been untangled yet and no other bootcamp has this kind of pattern of extreme polarization.
Like I said, I have a day job (which has nothing to do with this situation, but I accept whatever people send me so keep it coming and I'll keep reporting what checks out and that I can ano…
Thanks, I largely agree with your assessment too and it's why I try so hard to help the right people go there. People who go just because of the outcomes won't do well.without those other traits and attitude.
RE: OSP, it's a straight up lie that you worked for 3 months on the OSP and Phil saying that is actual fraud if he said that he does that. I understand that he thinks all of the time at Codesmith goes into that OSP but residents are also listing all of their other projects on their resume too, and their tech talks, and their "publications" (I e. medium post about the OSP) and that is all double or triple counted if you are getting 3 months credit for the OSP.
That said, they will also verify time spent after Codesmith. I found someone who removed a word from the README file 4 months later and they claimed 7 or 8 months in their LinkedIn.
I know several alumni who are floating 1 t…
Yes, from talking to a number of people casually, this is my current understanding (this is not fact-based but connecting the dots from various first hand sources):
\- enrollment is down, one timezone was removed, there were layoffs a month or so ago
\- there is pressure on admissions to get people admitted faster (less time between interviews and more discretion, BUT KEEPING THE BAR HIGH! - which is important)
\- the teacher hierarchy is students -> fellows -> mentor -> instructor -> lead instructor -> head instructor and program director. when someone leaves they get replaced by someone one step lower in the hierarchy
\- so when pressure comes from the program director, head instructor, and outcomes advisor to increase enrollment and that message gets spread down the hierarchy and eventually hits the current students.
so my working theory is that say the program director pulls i…
I actually explicitly removed Outco from the list because they seem to have shut down and aren't taking applications and numerous people I've talked to said they have been non responsive to them :S.
Obviously I'm extremely bias but I would say that:
Formation is a completely different world from Outco, I know some people that did Outco and came to Formation and can connect you. For example, you get a team of three dedicated support staff, an adaptive platform, mocks with actual senior engineers and recruiters who actually work at FAANG companies, personalized prep for upcoming interviews, a custom platform built from the ground up for your progress, scheduling, feedback, job hunt tracking, etc...
Interview Kickstart is a little more structured than Formation and not adaptive to your progress and needs, but it's consistently been ok for preparing for interviews. Similar to Formation th…
The contract is that we keep doing our part you until you get a job as long as you keep showing up to sessions, generally doing the stuff we give you, communicating with your team, and intend on job hunting.
We have only removed a small number of people and they fall under the second part:
\- People no-showing too many sessions/'disappearing' without trying to reschedule or notifying anyone after repeated warnings
\- People who are too busy in their day jobs or in their lives and they aren't doing anything on their weekly schedule. We try to work with people to adjust their schedules but if they just can't make the minimum 10 hours work then we'll have to remove you if we can't find a way to make it work.
\- People who aren't a good fit. This is really rare, but this is a bucket of people that do not want to follow the way we do things (i.e. they want to memorize instead of learning…
Interviewing.io is currently the best in place to go if you just want 1 to 3 or so mock interviews and nothing else.
If you plan on paying for 5 or more, I would consider an interview prep program like Formation.dev (disclosure co-founder), Interview Kickstart or Pathrise (I've removed Outco because they haven't accepted applications in a month.
Exponent bought PRAAMP (which is free peer to peer mocks) and they offer paid mocks in a number of areas as an upsell but they don't have as many or as a strong mock interviewers as Interviewing.io or the interview prep programs. If you can get a good deal on them then doing a few there is probably fine.
A number of people might recommend various free options, Codesmith also offers alumni free mock interviews for life, but not all mock interviews are the same. If you aren't doing a mock with a person who has either done hundreds of interviews…
Hey I think we might have chatted long ago (Reddit deleted legacy chats from before Jan 2023) but feel free to ping me. I think you should work with the manager to set yourself up to convert full time, take the position, give it 120% and don't do any bootcamp.
I know I might seem bias here because Formation is intended to help people like the above to get that really amazing second job/third job, but I genuinely think you will accelerate your career by taking trying to convert full time as soon as possible. By the time you would have graduated a bootcamp + 3 months (super conservatively to find a job) you'll have accumulated actual work experience that cannot be replaced by anything.
If you go to Codesmith and give that your 120% instead, you might get a $120K first job but you'll be starting from 0 at that job (don't let "mid level and senior" marketing influence this, you are starti…
Codesmith slowly and quietly shut down the data and machine learning intensive? Anyone know why?
I noticed a few months ago that Codesmith had removed all future cohorts for the data and machine learning intensive from their website but kept the landing page up, and now the entire program is gone (it used to be here: [https://www.codesmith.io/data-science-and-machine-learning-immersive](https://www.codesmith.io/data-science-and-machine-learning-immersive#upcoming_program_dates))
Anyone know why?
I don't think this reflects poorly or is a sign that there are troubles at Codesmith as it was a new program. It's probably a good thing so that they can focus on placing people in the immersive during a really hard time.
EDIT: Someone DM's and I won't share the details because it was a private message, but the program evolved into a separate, more academic, project outside of the Codesmith b…
I've spoken with several people who are currently in Codemsith or recent graduates concerned about identifying themselves for fear of being removed and shutoff from the community. Codesmith staff monitor this sub closely and if you give any info that could identify your cohort or OSP project and they find you, you might get in trouble. There was a mega AMA thread recently that disclosed a ton of numbers and info that was allowed but it was very positive.
So I agree this won't be useful without the why, but the OP might have reasons.
I'm in the CIRR is super flawed, why doesn't Codesmith improve it or replace it, but that is' not a fraud camp.
I'm concerned about the OSLabs stuff though. They made an official charity out of OSLabs in the middle of last year that pays mentors to mentor students. If they are collecting money from the charity to pay mentors to mentor Codesmith students only, that may be criminal, or may be a tax law violation. There's no way they aren't smart enough to figure out a way to make this work legally, but it's playing with fire.
Like if I, representing Formation, approached OSLabs about a collaboration to provide mentors and to work on projects or something, would they act in the best interest of OSLabs or would we get rejected because Codesmith leadership hates me? Eric Kirsten was advertising a job posting at OSLabs for the Executive Director saying to ping him if interesting.... I worked…
Yeah I have many comments about the OSPs but that is exactly why they aren't anything close to mid-level and senior projects. If you work for 4 weeks with a senior eng who specializes in React, you would get a lot better fast... and this is why an entry level apprenticeship at AirBnb paying $100K is better long term than a Senior Capital One job as your first job out of CS, imo.... for the average grad. For some people it's not but pushing people to mid and senior roles is missing a fantastic opportunity for grads.
I think they are going to have trouble with OSLabs as a boost to get mod and senior roles. If it's wildly successful, students will get to learn from real senior engineers and be perfectly setup to get referred to entry levels roles from them, but not mid and senior. There isn't an industry engineer I've asked who approved of CS grads marketing themselves for top tier mid se…
\[EDIT: commenter explained the original comment was not about bootcamp grads but master's grads, and I re-worded/removed things that are also now out of context, and sorry for misunderstanding the context!\]
Most people from bootcamps aren't making $200K in their first year. I've seen a Harvard Math grad have a path like this for example, or a UT Austin Civil Eng grad, but these people have some kind of natural abilities and work ethic that made it happen.
A very small number of people will, and those people will probably be making $1M a year in 5 to 10 years, like maybe yourself /u/Evening_Message5556 (which I would say based on my interactions with you :) )
That said at Bloomberg and Amazon, you can make $200K TC (e.g. $160K base + $40K+ bonus) by crushing mostly DS&A interviews and passing behavioral interviews. One of the key pieces is the behavioral interview and you coming acr…
I'm trying to avoid commenting on threads mostly with new accounts that troll and ignore replies from myself or others... been advised by Reddit employees don't feed the trolls. I love to have respectful discourse with established accounts.
Someone had commented a good answer but I think they deleted:
`From what I have heard they do referrals but its more limited than before because companies are hiring less and being more selective. The companies may also want a certain type of candidate, n yrs of experience, college degree, etc.`
To reinforce: people should not have and should not join Formation only to get referrals, we are not a pay for play referral service and if you think your skills are amazing and you want to buy your way into FAANG, it's not the program for you. We work with people that want an efficient way to get you skills to the top tier bar and gain confidence in your s…
More thoughts and random points /u/Independent-Tear3960, also /u/BudgetSense8077 and /u/InTheDarkDancing as I commented some of this on your thread and then deleted to move here. **I think point 4 is most important to the OPs questions**
1. The hiring market is partially to blame because it changed so quickly. One week Amazon was hiring, the next week they were laying off. People started bootcamps in a great environment and the carpet was pulled out underneath them.
2. I'm also not seeing bootcamps meaningfully adapt their program and strategies fast enough. Codesmith still tells people "taking a junior job is the worst thing you can do for your career". Now this is super bias, but I believe the way bootcamps are structured make it very hard to change everything overnight. At Formation, we are feeling the market pressure as well, we have much fewer opportunities to refer people to top t…
Your post from two months ago that was auto-deleted: "all of those reviews online are from formation employees, this novati dude is a huge sleazeball"
Please stop following me and defaming the company with provably false statements.
We have really strong reviews because the majority of people have a great experience overall, get great placements, find a new job making significantly more in salary, and recommend us to their friends. A smaller number of people understandably do not. We are a fast moving startup but that doesn't mean the experience should be compromised and it's not an excuse, it's expensive, most people feel like they get good to great value for their experience and we want nothing less. If someone joins for the wrong reasons, doesn't have the experience they wanted and wants to leave, we want them to leave positively and feeling like they got value for their time. Every…
You have several comments and deleted comments that are fairly offensive or negative about Formation's intentions that have been hurtful to the team and it makes me feel like you just don't want to be here.
If you do want to be here, we need to get back on track and be on the same side for this to work.
If you don't want to be here, please message me privately on MM and we'll remove you and figure out a cost that is appropriate to the value you think you got from Formation and we'll be more than fair to make sure you feel good about that cost. No hard feelings and no judgement... it's a stressful time for early career job hunters and we'll be happy to have you back in the future if there is better alignment and we are on the same side.
This doesn't sound like a good situation for anybody so we should talk more about it and if you are open, ping me on MM. Daniel would love to meet with you to talk about the sessions and you can ping him directly if you are more comfortable.
We obviously don't want you sitting through useless sessions and then rating them a 7!! That makes no sense.
And we absolutely do not want you showing up to sessions that waste your time out of a fear of being cut or removed and having to pay.
This is absolutely off track and there might be some communication issues to sort out about this that I really want to get to the bottom of.
We move fast, so it would be really awesome to share as much feedback as you can and give us a chance to action it.
100% agree that great engineers are not always great mentors, couldn't agree more! This is one of the reasons I personally don't do sessions, and focus on writing code, but that Daniel, Sophie, and others do sessions.
So most of our mentors are industry engineers who first go through light training (reading materials and videos) and then go through a shadowing and reverse shadowing process to be approved to run sessions.
For 1-1 mock interviews they are instructed to run them as industry mock interviews, and they complete a structured feedback form at the end with dozens of data points.
For group sessions, it's a little more complicated. We have a few dozen session types and people need to get shadowed and reverse shadowed for each type. Each session has very clear instructions on how to run that session - both technically and regarding the overall flow. Every single session technical…
I already offered to do a call with you, and suggested you do real research about Formation before defaming me and the company. Instead you are making up things you believe to be true with no evidence whatsoever and yelling more and more loudly about them to make them feel more and more true. Just like this subreddit is a bubble around bootcamps, thought bubbles exist and no one is immune, not me, not you.
What evidence do you have the user was banned from Reddit?
I have a spreadsheet and documentation of 200 alumns and it's pretty clear. Whether they are told to lie or not is seperate, but the raw data is clear. I suggest you do the same exercise before refuting this point.
RE: FAANG I agree there is a problem with inclusivity and that's why Formation's mission is to fix that. FAANG prioritize consistency and calibration. So they are pattern matching you against others to make sure…
Yeah I think Codesmith prepares you for entry level roles very well yeah. My definition of entry level is a full-blown SWE job where, while you have support, you are an independent valuable contributor with no strings attached.
I know some people call "entry level" or "junior roles" more like training like roles, and maybe Codesmith calls "mid level" what I call "entry level"?
All I know is they said 75% of graduates get mid level roles and 20% get senior roles (note: this has been removed from their LinkedIn, not sure if they still claim this), yet only 20% of people make over $140K base. All of the mid-level roles I know about in solid tech companies have starting salaries of at least $140K base right now. So my hunch is that it's a different definition of midlevel and senior, etc...
Regardless, the short answer is yes, they prepare you very well for a legitimate role as a programme…