Codesmith (due to declining enrollment) shutting down NYC in-person, merging remaining full time remote cohorts into one. But also alludes to new Future Code program, co-working spaces and announces new changes! See my line by line commentary and personal opinions.

Codesmith (due to declining enrollment) shutting down NYC in-person, merging remaining full time remote cohorts into one. But also alludes to new Future Code program, co-working spaces and announces new changes! See my line by line commentary and personal opinions. SOURCE: [https://www.codesmith.io/blog/community-update-doubling-down-on-remote-learning-timeless-pedagogy-frontier-tech](https://www.codesmith.io/blog/community-update-doubling-down-on-remote-learning-timeless-pedagogy-frontier-tech) DISCLAIMER: The following is my top to bottom analysis and personal opinions. I always disclose this and hopefully it's not boring. These are my personal opinions. I've not new to the sub and I have been giving my opinions on bootcamps for almost two years now, daily, from the FAANG angle, and also having worked with hundreds of bootcamps grads. I'm the co-founder of an interview prep mentorship platform that works with people with 1+ years of SWE work experience, so I don't consider it a competitor to any bootcamps, but disclosing so you know a bit about who I am. ANALYSIS: (numbering to make it a bit easier to discuss) # 1. "mirror the experience of the communities for which they are creating" According to [this](https://www.codesmith.io/blog/2023-codesmith-year-in-review) 7% of 2023 roles were onsite and 36% were hybrid. So I think having a NYC onsite as one out of (previously) FIVE options, the other 4 being remote, makes a lot of sense. I would suspect that finances and having a $70K (note: unconfirmed number shared with me by someone claiming to work there, but makes sense based on evaluating similar leases in the area) a month lease in Manhattan has something to do with it... just costs too much when you can't fill a cohort :( That said, I LOVE the new co-working space ideas so that people can still meet in person less frequently but get some face time and in person collaboration. It's notable that they are abandoning Los Angeles - the OG home of Codesmith - for SF. I think it's a good move, but I'll note that they might find a lot of pushback from Silicon Valley engineers. I might go to some events myself because I live most of the time in SF, but I haven't talked to an engineer in person here that doesn't staunchly disagree with the way Codesmith grads present their projects as "mid level and senior" work and they might not find the same kind of support here that they have in less tech-focused cities. # 2. over 3000 of our residents have built careers solving problems at the leading edge of technology I'm curious if over 3000 got jobs or if over 3000 graduated? Just adding up their CIRR numbers that would mean like well over 1000 should have gotten jobs last year and Codesmith said [here](https://www.codesmith.io/blog/early-look-2023-outcomes-and-analysis) there have been in the 500s. The data they have shared in a past info session that contained the entire count of all students had a bit over 3000 students listed, but not PLACEMENTS. Minor detail but I want to make sure people get the right data. This job posting said [5000 grads](https://web.archive.org/web/20231203090054/https://codesmith.applytojob.com/apply/8cJdwgcb9g/Brand-Architect-And-Content-Lead). # 3. Serge Vartanov, Principal Software Engineer at Tinder (where they’ve hired “half a dozen” Codesmith grads and mostly in senior roles) says he’s not surprised that “Codesmith grads end up at Meta, Google, Amazon, and Netflix.” I'm not sure where this came from, but if he's talking about DOWN THE ROAD, maybe. In people's reported roles out of Codesmith, the data I've seen (which again, is illustrative and not verified but comes from Codesmith and seems legit) , show under 100 grads going to Meta, Google, Amazon and Netflix combined out of allegedly 3000 plus above. Which would be a small edge case and not the norm. Maybe Codesmith has more data that's different than this and maybe this data is lacking, but just calling this out as a personal opinion/interpretation on the various pieces I can gather. Similarly who are the people placed at Tinder directly from Codesmith and what were their roles. Serge himself was placed as a Senior there, but a couple others I found were not titled Senior and were titled lower... perhaps why "half a dozen" is in quotes. Makes more sense if people were hired there in their second and third roles as seniors, consistent with what I see in my day to day as well. # 4. The results have been submitted to CIRR for imminent release That's good, CIRR's President was replaced (it's not longer Rachel Martinez) and it seems a bit messy right now. If the standards changed in 2024 **CIRR: PLEASE PUBLISH THE 2024 STANDARD WELL BEFORE THE OUTCOMES COME OUT SO WE CAN EVALUATE THEM!** Surprise here's our new outcomes with these new standards attached comes across as sketchy to me, but that's just my opinion. # 5. Our core programs: which will be the Part-Time Remote and Full-Time Remote. Curious what the time zone will be to work for everyone. # 6. Adding coworking spaces in our main hubs in SF and NYC Love this change, curious to see how it goes and how they will manage them, who will use them, but it's a cool idea to try. Codesmith events have long been the way they do marketing - they don't do online ads at all, and I think in person events can be very effective. # 7. Timeless Pedagogy Curious more what "smaller groups" means. The cohorts were fairly small, but I love the idea of smaller groups than 36 people. Mentorship "don" - I'm surprised people don't have dedicated mentors, I thought every junior had a senior and vice versa. Perhaps this is a alumni or Codesmith staff. # 8. Future Code NYC program Still waiting to hear more about this but from what I've seen in the past this is a great program! The past versions were for people with NO PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE, so this is an interesting diversion for Codesmith. Their current curriculum obviously won't work and they won't be able to use the same job hunting techniques anymore. So I'm curious to see how this plays out. Given the fact that they are shrinking cohorts and financial constraints, it seems a bit risky to invest in a new program that I would expect to require more investment to get going and develop all the new curriculum and strategies, but **the mission is important** and it's great to see Codesmith supporting more diversity amongst residents. # 9. Frontier Tech Calling Next.js and Typescript "frontier tech" is a bit dated to me haha. But very nice to see AI and ML being integrated. Integrating into 12 weeks of curriculum is tough. These are deep topics that I think require 12+ weeks to develop a useful experience in, BUT getting some exposure early on is great. "New curriculum focused on System Design, Data Structures, and Algorithms alongside workshops to further job search strategies.": those are very important things! My mentorship platform focused exclusively on those and it takes most people who **start where Codesmith grads end** months to get really good at these topics, so I'm very curious to see where this comes into play. Maybe they can present new spins on things. I have a team of people who have built interviews at FAANG, taught interviewers at FAANG, and we have a ton of experience in these areas, so I'm going to be keeping a very close on eye on this area. # 11. Curated Community  "New alumni joining the faculty" - every single faculty except one person is an alumni of Codesmith already, so not sure what this means. Maybe just that they are committing to this approach? "Deepening connections with hiring partners and bringing alumni leaders back as mentors" - so the mentorship program I run has signed paperwork with 3 of the canonical FAANG companies to call them "partners" in various capacities, I would be curious who Codesmith's partners are. You can't call someone a partner because you have an alumni there, so I would push them a bit on that and push for more on what the partnerships are. ​ ​

They didn't say explicitly but what they did say: - The March 4th cohort sounds like the last one that will run the old way - I would guess they will have a transition time where the instructors of all these cohorts are kept on to wrap things up and co-teach the first 1-2 cohorts before moving on to other things outside of Codesmith. So maybe as they transition the first "new" full time remote cohort will be taught a little differently with multiple lead instructors? No idea, good question! **This is exactly why I'm pausing recommendations until all the day to day details are out** and we see what happens - All the cohorts are still on the website through July, but staff were removed from the upper section and the new times were placed there instead. So it seems only partially rolled out.

Similar to another comment, all of the day to day details haven't come out yet and it's why I temporarily paused my recommendation until it is sorted out. I've also seen in CSX Slack a number of people super excited to join in the next month. The new times are very different. Like 7:30am to 5:30pm PST Monday through Saturday, and some people might have to change up their schedules. My COMPLETE GUESS FOR NOW is that the March NY cohort will run "hybrid" style as a "co-working space" where the instruction is remote and the same as all others in the cohort, but a group of people happen to be in person for as much as they want to be. I'M JUST GUESSING! I want to know too

Oh wow, I assume they would have told you or will tell you any second now and have people ready to respond all night, that's what I would do. That would be a huge miss if they announced this publicly and left all the March people hanging :(. That said, I would just take a deep breath though and wait to hear from them, they are already small and shrinking but they seem committed to providing a good consistent experience, so I would cautiously wait and not get too worried yet and give them a day to explain everything. Hopefully they let you know soon and let me know if you find out the answer! I'm really busy too and not proactively trying to find out, just surfacing and summarizing what comes my way.

Launch School is a little smaller and has always been smaller, and follows a vaguely similar idea to Codesmith. You spend a lot of time preparing to go to Capstone via the Core. Difference being Core is paid and more committed and CSX is free. Capstone is a little longer and the projects - also open source products - are a little more polished and legit. So TLDR: depends on what works for you. If you like Launch School Core go to Capstone. If you like CSX and Codesmith public lectures go to Codesmith - although note I would pause and wait to see what's going on with these changes before locking it in. I'm sure everything will be totally find, but just calmly absorb what they tell you and process it, I'm happy to be a sounding board 1-1 if you are nervous about something they tell you to chat it through with an independent rational look at things.

Yeah I know some instructors and I REALLY hope they have a transition time because the ones I know are amazing and I know will find great jobs outside of Codesmith but might need a little bit of time to ramp up and compete in this same market as the Codesmith grads. But yeah eliminating two cohorts is 6 instructors (2 leads, 2 instructor, 2 mentors) and a number of lead fellows and fellows, I agree there might be some people looking for jobs. Even if they are promised their jobs will survive and morph, I would be looking for a new job given the state of things... DISCLOSURE: I am actually bias on this because Codesmith instructors coming to my mentorship program is decent option to consider and they are at the lower end of our acceptance bar, but still a viable option. I know we're only talking like a few people and my comments above aren't meant to be an ad, but I'm just disclosing that to be open about who I am.

I agree yeah generally speaking, but they removed the times from the website so it's not entirely clear if the times will change. They have been soliciting feedback on the times for a while. FEEDBACK FOR CODESMITH (OPINIONS): 1. The blog post should have had more logistics for the students impacted instead of half defending how great Codesmith is before discussing any of the changes. 2. The website should have been updated in tandem because it's very confusing right now 3. Staff should have been around when the blog went out to assist and support people 4. Will should have written a letter in his name about all that Codesmith has accomplished over the years as a preface to alumni and to the public, and then a SEPARATE LETTER from a Shanda about the program changes written to students and future residents about logistic changes that was more tactical and less marketing.

I mean that's why I'm on pause and waiting haha. There are a lot of high level changes discussed, like "smaller group lectures", and that could mean anything.

The website lists: "13 Weeks / Mon-Sat 7:30am - 5:30pm PT / 10:30am - 8:30pm ET" So it's an hour shorter on weekdays and 4 hours longer on Saturdays I guess?

Layoffs were confirmed yeah, not sure the size or who

That's a pretty unique perspective to have, happy to DM more. I try to take a more balanced view on things in general, but I have a number of more personal comparison points and I'm curious if they align with your views.

Yeah, my grammar is not good

hahah well that is for correcting I actually appreciate it

It was in here but they removed it now: https://www.codesmith.io/immersive-program#upcoming_program_dates

It's been updated again: FULL TIME: **13 Weeks** **Mon - Fri:** 7:30am - 5:30pm PT / 10:30am - 8:30pm ET **Sat:** 7:30am - 3pm PT / 10:30am - 6pm ET*Optional Hour:  Mon - Sat:  6:30am - 7:30am PT / 9:30am - 10:30am ET* PART TIME: **Mon - Thurs:** 5pm - 8pm PT / 8pm - 11pm ET **Sat:** 9am - 3pm PT / 12pm - 6pm ET

Uhh, well there are three software companies called Codesmith - I don't think Codesmith has any IP lawyers, and I bet those were added to the wrong one and are for another Codesmith.