I can't tell if you are trolling, not understanding, or just have such a fixed mindset you aren't trying to understand.
How does that work exactly if someone is paying for a month subscription and someone else is paying for an unlimited membership with the goal of getting a job in 12 months.
What would either of those people get from an average placement time?
If someone has a three month subscription, what clock do we use for placement, 12 months from the end of that? What if they have a bundle and pay to extend a month and then get placed? Isn't that worse than if they got placed in the 3 month bundle they were hoping for even though they had a great job.
I believe most of our Fellows have full time day jobs, many do a couple sessions a week and have a long term timeframe and take a long time to place.
On the other hand a bunch of people were engineers who were laid off who are p…
Our full year report has been on our blog since December.
I think I wrote tens of thousands of words explaining our outcomes and there is no question I will not answer honestly.
Our main goals are salary increase and top tier placements because that's what people pay us to achieve.
We don't have a concept of a placement rate because it doesn't make sense for an interview prep program with a month to month membership that allows ramping up and ramping down week to week. It's not useful.
I've explained this to people on your team repeatedly and I struggle to believe you don't comprehend what I'm saying. If you have specific questions I try to elucidate or if you disagree and think we are bootcamp that can publish these things then explain why and I can respond or clarify misconceptions.
Better yet talk to your alumni that have done Formation and find A SINGLE PERSON who thinks Format…
I also agree 110k salaries are great roles!
The part I'm pushing Codesmith on is the trend and the marketing message.
If you tell people they are mid level and senior engineers and the salaries have dropped 130k -> 120k -> 110k, it just doesn't add up.
It's not true and it's misleading.
For example, at Formation, you can see in our 2024 report from December, we had a $110K INCREASE in first year total comp (see the exact calculation mechanism on our blog), increase from 50% top tier in 2023 -> 76% top tier in 2024, and people are getting ACTUAL mid-level and senior top tier roles.
**So the market improved a ton in 2024 from our point of view.**
Codesmith is blaming a bad 2024 market for worse results than 2023, but it's a bad market for **entry level software engineers** not a bad market for all.
**Sorry, this is rambling - but my consistent point for 2-3 years now has been that…
People can count as placements if they ghost and don't report salaries but have a job listed on LinkedIn. So it's a subset of placements that reported salaries, not just placements.
In their CA 2023 corrected report, 65% of people in the report did NOT report salaries in 2023 but were considered placements.
I agree that zero to placement doesn't make any rational sense anymore without having corporate support and potential jobs lined up.
By "you guys" I'm assuming you mean Formation, and Formation doesn't teach any vocational skills, so yes, you have to have employable programming skills coming in and our job is to help you level up to more impactful roles and pass interviews in a competitive market. So our entry bar will always change on paper as it's philosophically "already has hirable programming skills"
I mean do the math... $110K average salary, $55K increase, means that people make on average $65K coming in.
Now $65K isn't a 6'10 high school kid, but it's the median outcome of a lot of OTHER BOOTCAMPS.
I'm not sure if they include $0 in there or if they exclude them - again - no methodology is problematic and legally risky for them - but if they don't then it could be that half the people have no job because they quit and went all in, and half the people make $120K.
This is all speculation and exactly why publishing data is can of worms. You have to public reliable data or it means nothing except for marketing tricks and without disclaimers - legally playing with fire.
Well I'll try discussing lol.
A lot of people say the 'STEM people had an easier time' but I actually think the quality of your undergrad matters. From Codesmith's data, only a tiny number of people didn't have a degree. I think the ranking of undergrad school matters.
For example, if you have an ivy league undergrad majoring in law or music, you probably have a lot of friends in tech, are very bright, and have a lot of soft skills to succeed.
Salary increase over previous job is a good metric to use in general because it's demonstrating the value the career change had.
It's not a CIRR metric, it's not audited, it has no rules or guidelines, but it's a good metrics. The problem we have here is presenting that along side audited data can make it seem like all of the data is equally valid. I don't see ANY KIND OF DISCLAIMER EXPLAINING HOW IT'S CALCULATED (which is the non-lawyer legal advice I would give them)
I don't know anything about your program :S, did I attack it? And where so I can check?
Zooming out though the point is that if you pay people on Upwork to post on Reddit and make fake accounts to upvote and like your LinkedIn posts, it's not good behavior and it catches up to you over time and has nothing to do with me, I'm not forcing you to do that.
The Codesmith CEO could have emailed me 2 years ago and said 'hey, our team really doesn't like your tone on Reddit, can we chat so we can learn more about each others perspectives'. Someone from Codesmith did reach out to me and never replied after I insisted that we have to agree that I'm not competing with them to continue conversations.
If a whole team of leaders are making up their own story about me and don't even try to acknowledge my point of view, I can't really control that.
I think you reached out to me too and while I don't…
I dunno, I think it's totally fine and good for Codesmith to make a case for themselves, but I completely agree their response is more defensive and out of touch than making a legit case.
Making a case for themselves would be something like:
1. Codesmith staff work really hard to help people change careers successfully
2. For the right people, they feel confident in placing you, but for the wrong people, it's not working out anymore and there are no more shortcuts
3. Codesmith is focused on finding the right people, and if you want to see if that's you - apply and work with them on that.
4. Here are ANECDOTAL (not systematic) examples of what that looks like for people that it works for, and here are their backgrounds, LinkedIns, and strategies employeed to get jobs, and if you think you align with those, it might be a good fit for you too.
\------
Instead the defensive responses…
If you map out Codesmith's outcomes from 2021 -> 2024 with public data, you see 6 month placement rates dropping from like 90 -> 80 -> 70 -> 40%, you see salaries dropping like $125K -> $130K -> $120K -> $117K -> $110K
The trend doesn't look good.
BUT some people are getting jobs! The jobs do exist.
However I think it's going to take small bespoke programs working with the right people to get to the right place, and no program will systematically produce results.
These outcomes are the nail in the coffin to to speak because we've flipped from 'more likely than not' getting a job to not getting a job (when comparing apples to apples) so even the 'best bootcamp' can't more likely than not place someone in 6 months.
If you know me, I'm more than happy to write paragraphs of explanation. Using fake accounts to manipulate discussion is a pattern that Reddit is onto, banning dozens of Codesmith affiliated accounts, including two of their "official" ones.
It has nothing to do with me - it's just plain bad behavior.
Currently we require 2+ years of SWE work experience or we will decline working with you, so no brand new CS or bootcamp grads.
But in theory yes, and we have informal connections to many bootcamps who recommend Formation to alumni in their future job hunts and we have positive relationships - even though I'm equally hard on them about their outcomes and many have closed or paused/
I've been on contact with Codesmith and they haven't offered a call.
I'm still trying to get answers for harder questions, like why the ghosting rate went from 15% to about 65% in their CA government report and what caused that.
They have been evading the hard questions but I have a channel of communication open.
I feel like this post from Annie is trying to change the goal posts now from CIRR placement rates and salaries to overall offer count and salary increases. These new metrics might make sense but they are changing the goal posts to try to frame the numbers better instead of being transparent.
They know preliminary H1 2024 6 months placement rates for example and haven't shared them - which would be extremely relevant given their past data, and instead made up new metrics, just like the bootcamps they criticized who failed during Codesmith's rise to success.
Top level comments:
1. How many of the 102 offers were people job hunting over 1 year who would not be included in any reporting
2. 102 offers is a significant decline of offers per day from past reporting and a further decline deterioration of outcomes. can you clarify if this is that the job market is even worse in the end of 2024 or if this is because of significantly lower enrollment at Codesmith?
3. Similarly, $110,000 is possibly the lowest salary you've reported in 5 years or something. inflation has been running rampant and entry-level salaries have increased as well during that time. so can you give more explanation into this number? are people taking worse jobs or are they taking adjacent jobs that pay less that aren't software engineer jobs? or maybe just more insights into that number.
4. Why not publish preliminary H1 6-month placement rates now that 6 months have fully pas…
Formation is an interview prep mentorship program that doesn't teach anything and everyone has a different experience. Our main competitor is Pathrise and with some overlap with Interviewing io and Hello Interview. The key is that engineers who come to us need to be already trained in the practical skills and we help them prepare for interviews and land the job.
Codesmith is a bootcamp primarily focused on people without SWE work experience changing careers, or otherwise with no SWE work experience. Codesmith is training underlying technical skills required by the job based on a fixed curriculum that all students do.
There is a small overlap for atypical cases. We take some people with no SWE full time work experience who have the circumstances where we think we can help. Codesmith takes some people with work experience who don't have underlying employable skills or project experience.
I've explained this numerous times. We aren't a bootcamp and what we do doesn't fit into bootcamp reporting standards. We have subscriptions, we have people with interviews line up, as have people with super long job hunt timeframes, we have people with 1 year of experience and we have people with 20+ years of experience.
There is no single report format that will properly capture this data in a way that a new person could use to estimate anything, and it might do more harm than good if the person thinks they will get a job in 3 months and it ends up taking 6 for example.
We have 1-1 conversations with people about their goals and we try to advise on reasonable outcomes for them.
This takes more time and effort but it's essential given the nature of what we do.
Additionally:
You also made a mistake posting with an alt account that got instantly suspended by Reddit and then reposting…
Sorry, that was advice for a lot of people reading it who are in similar situations and that's why it's so long.
I have zero right to backfill your history and I don't know you at all and apologize for making you feel that way.
My point stands that I see a lot of bootcamp grads get laid off in their first few years and it's important to understand why. Not everyone wants to be a top performer but it doesn't change the fact that top performers don't get laid off the vast majority of the time. Not being a top performer doesn't mean you are a low performer either.
I would have to know WAY MORE about you to make conclusions about your personally.
Oh definitely not, changing jobs once is fine in that period but more than once raises some flags that need explanation.
I thought you had more jobs because you said a 'stint at Microsoft' that I interpreted as a short thing and that you had more jobs.
Re: layoffs, the hard truth is that unless more than 15% of the company was laid off, it was performance related in some capacity.
If you were running a company and you had to mass layoff and cut departments, you would take all the best engineers from those areas and move them before laying off the team. It would be irrational not to do that after putting so much effort into finding and nurturing the best engineers.
Now let's say you had to lay off 20% of staff across the whole company, and you tell each manager to remove 20% of people... do you think they would remove anyone but the lowest performers on their team?
I know this can be…
How about all of the times I said specific people should go to Codesmith in the past? Your read my 2000+ comments on Reddit?
Summary: I temporarily removed that recommendation in Feb 2024 when they laid off about half the staff and shrunk 2/3 in offerings. And then permanently maintained that when most of the promised changes in Feb 2024 never materialized the way I hoped they would, and outcomes tanked.
That's rational no?
If a program has an 80% placement rate that tanks to 40% (with the majority of the 40% ghosting and non responsive according to their report - whereas when it was 80% the majority were engaged) and keeps telling you everything is fine and changes the goal posts they are measured by, isn't that an insane red flag to reconsider? Or no?
Clearly SOME people are getting placed and it's very much possible that this person will get placed too... but I would argue this pe…
This is a common outcome I hear too, people get jobs but the people who gets jobs at levels above what they should be tend to have a lot of trouble year 2 to 5.
It doesn't discount how much impact Codesmith has on their initial transition and it's not a dis whatsoever, it's just one of the things you don't hear about on Reddit and a downside of the "go for mid level and senior jobs" strategy.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
I can give my thoughts knowing a lot of Codesmith grads and what they've been saying recently:
1. Is it worth it for someone who literally has a Computer Science degree? (I tend to struggle a lot with building projects of my own due to demotivation or lack of people that want to build things with me)
Placements are hovering somewhere below 50% six months after finishing Codesmith, so you are looking at ANOTHER YEAR before you get a job and maybe 2 more years, even going through Codesmith. Their most recent data shared showed something like 15% of people having CS degrees. I suspect that has increased in the current tough market for CS grads. I also believe people with CS and adjacent degrees have faired better than those without (anecdotal).
1. What did you build, what were teammates like?
I used to review a lot of the OSP group projects because people asked me to and they didn't get…
Done updating the numbers, I would like some clarity on the California students numbers because something isn't adding up with my math.
I can't really comment on the 12 month placements rates, I estimated in other comments a 50 to 60% 12 month placement rate using CIRR rules and regulations but we don't have those on previous analogous reports to compare to.
I'm extremely loud about Codesmith in here and I have never once said that their CIRR results were fake. I argued with well documented evidence that graduates were exaggerating their experience, on average.
Why are you trying to polarize things? The world exists in shades of grey and things aren't just one way or the other.
Codesmith has a lot of good things about it and bad things about, as does pretty much everything.
Hi, a lot of people that go into Codesmith have non-technical degrees from pretty good schools and doing a CS masters can be an option. This is the best all around for brand, quality, cost: [https://omscs.gatech.edu/](https://omscs.gatech.edu/)
To clarify though there are two aspects to this post:
1. Codesmith hasn't degraded or gotten worse in the educational experience, it's the same it's always been + 5 new AI lectures. So comparing Codesmith to other bootcamps, it might still be one of the better ones. **BUT best of bad options doesn't mean you should choose it, it just means you probably shouldn't choose another bootcamp instead if Codesmith was the one for you.**
2. The lack of integrity (my opinion) / "carefully selected marketing" (fact) on their side (both in how they didn't tell anyone about this in Feb 2024 - when half of their students already hit the 6 month post grad ma…
I'm seeing a lot of bootcamps pivoting to AI in a cash grab, many paused their SWE programs while they do so.
I'm REALLY nervous about bootcamps trying to exploit their alumni for cash like Codesmith is with their AI/ML Leadership course.
I've reviewed the course and this free YouTube video from an industry leader with 10+ years of AI experience across two of the top research labs + OpenAI + Tesla Director of AI: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xTGNNLPyMI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xTGNNLPyMI)
I feel for Codesmith - their AI course is taught by some awesome individuals, but they have like 1 year of SWE experience each and it just doesn't stack up in any way to Andrei and Andrei's course is 100% free.
I quite frankly don't really know what anyone at Codesmith can do to catch up to someone like Andrei in teaching AI directly now that Andrei started a company to teach people AI…
Yeah this is a very important point that these systemic issues are not just Codesmith and a lot of places have them.
The only program I know that has very transparent outcomes is Launch School, where they are small enough they can account AND discuss with commentary, each outcome and pattern, and they had something like a 70% 6 month placement rate for 2023 cohorts as well - which is on the positive side of flipping the coin.
Here's my analysis:
Based on my close view of the market for the past 5 years, I would guess 2024 students will have similar placement rates to 2023 students.
Based on the anecdotes people share with me from Codesmith, there are hardly any placement and hardly any alumni engagement - specifically in the second half of 2024.
Codesmith itself loudly touts a CIRR-violating salary outcome and placement number on their website of 168 offers between March and August 2024 that we can also factor in.
1. Salaries they reported were DOWN from peak about 10% - when inflation ran rampant and salaries have gone up, this tanking salary shows that more people are taking non-SWE jobs, going back to their old jobs or taking temporary jobs as part of a longer term plan.
2. It's possible that people taking non SWE jobs and worse jobs instead of waiting for their dream SWE job will result in a higher…
I agree that scenario isn't so clear and when there was a market inefficiency for hiring SWEs a lot of companies came up with ideas:
1. Bootcamps
2. Post-BACC CS diplomas
3. WGU - self paced quick CS degree
4. EdX free courses from MIT and Stanford
5. Udacity "Nano Degree"
\-----------------------
Ultimately - you just can't become a solid SWE in 12 weeks or a few months, it's a fiction and a myth. It would be like deciding to become a Lawyer in 12 weeks if you are an engineer by training.
You can develop skills, hyperfocus and accelerate your learning, but some of the process of getting there is just letting ideas bake in when they bake in, getting involved with lawyers and listening to them inside and outside of work, etc....
\------------------------
So then why do people come to Reddit saying Codesmith or HackReactor changed their life and went from school teacher to $150K…
Would you not agree that dropping from 90 to 70 to 29 though is something they should note and discuss a random students odds went from almost certain to the expected outcome being no placement in 6 months.
Codesmith defence in Feb 2024 was that everything is fine, the outcomes are strong, but people are taking 120 days instead of 90 days to place.
No discussion about how their placements are terrible but still better than CS.
Lastly, their market themselves as an alternative to an elite grad school and elot grad schools like Stanford have almost 100% placement and like $150K average salaries or something like that.
So I wouldn't accept a comparison to all CS but a comparison to the best schools.
During the boom times Codesmith posted something from Switch UP that their grads made more money than specific top CS schools.... let's see that same study in 2023/2024.
Definitely not a lot, they had a lease paying like $70K a month in NYC, and they laid off the majority of staff at this point.
But $5M gives you raw resources to try to cut back and invest in AI and new programs that you wouldn't be able to do if you paused the program instead.
Some respectable bootcamps paused and pivoted to AI because I think it's the more ethical thing to do.
But delusionally continuing with SWE can backfire if the outcomes are too terrible and it destroys the brand instead and that's what we're now seeing here.
I agree with these arguments as well but Codesmith compared themselves to the best of the best. Marketing as an alternative to an elite grad school.
So they need to be compared to Stanford which is still like 100% of job seekers and average base salaries like $150K.
If the marketing is to be better than a non name CS degree then I might agree with that, or at least consider them closer.
I commented on this website months ago but I believe it's true and the problem is it conflates 2022, 2023, 2024 outcomes and outcomes for people that might have been looking for well over a year.
Second, the pacing with 168 offers in that period is much fewer offers per day than in their peak period, so even that number is not very good.
Again, marketing to try to make things look better.
Funny that I don't have any of these problems until I point out anything critical about Codesmith's and then these random accounts seem to come out of the woodwork.
Reddit permanently suspended dozens of them already for creating a bunch of fake comments, threads and votes and all kinds of messed up stuff exclusively on Codesmith content and two claiming to represent Codesmith officialy.
Isn't it more weird to have a fake AMA where 1/3 of the comments are fake accounts having fake conversations?
That's not just one clown, it's a whole circus!
All I have is integrity and even though Reddit can't catch all this in real time, they eventually do. That's why those AMAs have so many deleted and suspended accounts on them when you go back 3 months later.
based on how many comments you have that have been removed for harassment and trolling, I mean I guess that you're not actually reading anything or thinking about things like an intelligent person would process them and just attacking.
I very clearly said you have to have two plus years of experience right now. at least to benefit from what we do and it's been like that for over a year now and if you just graduated from a cs degree we would not accept you.
We're like personal training. Saying no professional athlete needs personal training is ridiculous. Some don't sure but not all.
In fact the top of the top professional athletes don't only have full-time traveling personal trainers, but they have full-time traveling masseuses, chefs and other staff and pay them cumulatively millions of dollars a year.
Of course that's not our vision or our market but we work with some excellent engineers to get into shape for interviews but the engineers are the ones doing the work.
I agree, maybe even a top 20 school.
Part of it is the selection process. If you can get into a top 20 school, you are probably someone who is also more likely to succeed in 12 months too.
Codesmith was a place with a high selection bar. They did a study on schools people went to prior and only a tiny percent didn't have any college experience and most went to good public or private or ivy league like schools.
So taking people that are proven to be able to get into a really good college in a different discipline and then giving them a boot camp after to fill in some specific technical gaps where they already built a network and non-technical skills in their degree at their really good school. could make sense, maybe too, but that's still a bit of a stretch to me and I don't think that is a reproducible heurosric.
Bootcamps and crappy CS degrees took advantage of market inefficiencies. Those inefficiencies corrected.
I bet you you can learn to be an accountant on 12 months too.
The college system isn't about learning skills but about working your way through a system that bubbles up the top people over 4 years and hands those people to the top companies in a silver platter.
Most importantly, the bootcamp system had it's shot to show that it can be a better system and it failed or it would have replaced college.
Big tech went back to the top colleges and unless you think they are idiots they are doing so for a reason and abandoning bootcamps.
TLDR: can the right person be hirable via a bootcamp in 12 months? yes. Is the bootcamp model consistently producing qualified people more reliable than CS degrees. That's a proven no.
Yeah exactly, and on my side with my work hat on, I see a number of Codesmith grads (but really bootcamp grads more broadly) who still fell lost a few years into their careers.
Maybe there is a layoff, maybe you changed companies three times but aren't progressing to 'Senior', etc...
Codesmith in particular has some people in their career support that market themselves to grads as industry experts who are all you need for the rest of your career, and it's like two people who have reasonable points of view but FAR FROM 'all you need' and it's really HARMING GRADS I TALK TO.
Things like:
1. Someone told me today that a leader was telling people about a special deal to sell options to Codesmith's partner if you leave your startup and can't afford to exercise them when you leave.
This is something companies help with for 10 to 15+ YEARS, since the 2000 bubble, and there are all kinds of…
My view now is firmly in the camp of SWE bootcamps are dead as a scalable business model. SWE bootcamps will survive that are small, founder led, and they are able to select and find a tiny number of edge case people for whom the bootcamp will work well, and then most of those people get jobs -realizing that their situation is not reproducible for everyone.
And then a new wave of AI-for-non-engineers-to-be-better-at-their-jobs will pop up. Some from the ashes of SWE bootcamps, some brand new ones.
I've seen two examples:
1. [https://www.gauntletai.com/](https://www.gauntletai.com/) \- first step is an IQ-like test
2. two top VCs started this: [https://meritfirst.us/](https://meritfirst.us/) (aptitude test to get in the pool)
Both use "meritocracy" as the guiding principle which has similar language to the new government administrations position.
I posted about this in another thread somewhere but the new administrations stance in the USA about DEI is also causing a lot of apprenticeships and programs for non traditional pathways to be shutdown, and while that impacts a lot of sources of people, it doesn't help bootcamp grads at all.
A world of "meritocracy" does not favor a bootcamp grad with ZERO SWE experience, no matter how much potential they have. They are going to have to build experience with unpaid internships, contracts, etc... to compete with 'meritocracy'
On the other hand, a new trend is the "IQ Test" approach - ignore background and do an IQ test and if it's high enough then you get the job regardless.
This might give some bootcamp grads a shot who have high IQs but you can't increase your IQ with a bootcamp, so.... I don't think it will keep the bootcamp industry alive but it might open up more direct paths fo…
I can give my thoughts
1. Layoffs aren't a huge factor, but the entry level market is returning to the pre-COVID environment that focuses on top tier computer science grads, internships -> full time, etc... So if you want to be a SWE at a top tech company, get a CS degree at a top school.
2. I think there is going to be a ton of jobs created that use AI that are NOT SWE roles but are just non-engineer roles + AI. E.g. Lawyer + AI and Accountant + AI and Nurse + AI, and Doctor + AI, and all the creative fields (writing, music, etc....) we will need a lot programs for NON ENGINEERS to level up using AI and technology. I think this is where Codesmith is going to eventually, they just aren't cutting off the SWE part out of pride and because as I said in my post - it makes $5M despite terrible outcomes and that $5M can be used to build AI before admitting to those people they don't have muc…
It's completely misleading yes and that's why I've been so hard on their marketing this past year! I've had anecdotal reports of numbers from reasonable sources for a while and found those numbers on their site completely misleading.
1. 29% is within six months of graduation. So people can get jobs after that and be reported int he 168 number of their website and also In their last CIRR report, they published 3 mo, 6mo, 12 mo numbers and their 6 month placement for 2022 grads was like 70% and their 12 mo was 80%, so of those 250 minus 70 people, I'm sure some of them got jobs in first half of 2024 (which would be post 6 months but less than 12 months)
2. The 168 number includes 2024 grads that got offers really fast. A small number of people with exceptional backgrounds, experience, networks, get jobs fast. Because they didn't specify how long those people were looking and when they gr…
BREAKING NEWS: Codesmith 2023 official outcomes published: CANNOT BE WORSE - placement rate crashed from 70% to 29%. Enrollment also tanked over 50%. The software engineering bootcamp era is over.
I'm going to keep this brief because the data tells the story pretty well.
Codesmith was once arguably the top bootcamp, and generally regarded as a top 5 bootcamp, and their outcomes have been completely decimated. They touted in their marketing in 2023 of past years' median placement salaries of up to $130K, 90% placement rates, and people didn't care how it happened just that it happened.
**Well the job market has humbled even the best and Codesmith's self-reported 2023 student placement rate is beyond terrible, it's evidence that SWE bootcamps are no longer a viable pathway into the industry no matter what the program says or does.**
[Link to Official Report](https://www.bppe.ca.gov/web…
Last year they 'highly encouraged' people to post videos and creative pieces publicly on Reddit, and social media to explain why they wanted to join.
I felt like it was a gimmick to try to get free marketing for Codesmith, but it came across they wanted people who will articulately market and advertise for Codesmith and be very supportive.
I don't know behind the scenes. The people who contacted me who were accepted were extremely strong at coding, but technically had no computer science degree (perhaps they dropped out or had a mechanical engineer degree), maybe they went to another bootcamp first, maybe they had done a lot of scholarship courses but they weren't official courses.... etc.
I'm very curious how many people dropped off from start to finish as well.
But those people graduate end of April, which is well past the deadline for the next cohort.
Codesmith measures performance metrics for placements within 360 days of completion, so they likely won't publish any kind of data until April 2026 about how the July 2024 cohort did.
I'm sure if they have some success cases before, they will highlight them on social media, but we need to see the actual data and impact.
Of the people who started, how many get a better job and what kinds of jobs do they get.
I'm sure verbal feedback will be amazing and current students will join all the info sessions saying how amazing the program was, but SHOW ME THE MONEY! 37 weeks full time is a heck of a long time and even if the program is free, you could do other things. Let's say you make $20 a hour and this program is about 148…
Yeah the minimum is like barely more than 1 job at minimum wage and last time around people who were just intentionally taking a break applied... someone was a MEDICAL DOCTOR and applied because being unemployed counts as $0, even if you are voluntarily unemployed.
Since the program is full time anyways and they advise against having any job while doing it, perhaps just being unemployed qualifies.
Hi, it highly depends on your specific experience. Having a gap can be fine if you had many years of experience prior. If you left and did a bootcamp and that's why you have a gap, then I would consider putting it under education.
Honestly, it's incredibly hard and there's only so much you can do. Which is why when I surveilled Codesmith grads, like 80, 90% of people were significantly exaggerating or flat out lying. It's an ends justify the means argument that if they can do well on the job, it's wrong for them to be disqualified due to lack of experience, so fudging it a bit is fine.
I know a lot of people that choose to exaggerate as a result as well. I think there are major problems by doing that, BUT I'm more centrist on the issue.
What I'm extremely against is Codesmith not being transparent about how things are so that you can make a grown up choice. Instead it's more of a br…
Yeah + 1, and that's why I prefaced my notes - don't fall for marketing that this will change your life and get you a six figure job. You MIGHT, but a lot of that will depend on YOU. And if you are are the right person, this might help you get there in a way nothing else can. But for 99% of the readers, that's not you, and that's ok.