u/Standard_Life_2629 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Hi Michael, Me again! :) Our CIRR results will be out soon, and we're looking forward to sharing the detailed data with you. You’re right, offers and average salaries are down, which isn’t surprising given the massive tech downturn. No one, including Codesmith, has been immun
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
I also agree 110k salaries are great roles!
The part I'm pushing Codesmith on is the trend and the marketing message.
If you tell people they are mid level and senior engineers and the salaries have dropped 130k -> 120k -> 110k, it just doesn't add up.
It's not true and it's misleading.
For example, at Formation, you can see in our 2024 report from December, we had a $110K INCREASE in first year total comp (see the exact calculation mechanism on our blog), increase from 50% top tier in 2023 -> 76% top tier in 2024, and people are getting ACTUAL mid-level and senior top tier roles.
**So the market improved a ton in 2024 from our point of view.**
Codesmith is blaming a bad 2024 market for worse results than 2023, but it's a bad market for **entry level software engineers** not a bad market for all.
**Sorry, this is rambling - but my consistent point for 2-3 years now has been that if Codesmith stopped trying market people as mid level and senior engineers and instead actually focused on preparing people for entry level jobs, your proven track record and reputation might actually help you place those people better than others and lead the market for entry level, compared to computer science schools and bootcamps.**
I still have no idea remotely why, but you all pushed back so much on this - as if the mid-level and senior thing is so core to your identity you can't give it up - and keep defaming me a 'competitor who is jealous of the best', when I all I personally want is to work with you and help people have more impact in the world.
The good market of 2021/2022 made you falsely believe Codesmith was better than it was (not that it was bad by any means), and instead of "thanking the market" for the boost you said it was all Codesmith and how Codesmith is in a league of its own. Now that the market is tanking your outcomes it's the 'markets fault' and not Codesmith's fault.