Another CIRR school pauses enrollment due to the market. Bootcamps have to face reality or they will not survive 2024. If you are looking at bootcamp that doesn't warn you about the market for bootcamp grads, run for the hills!
SOURCE: [https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/launch-academy-announces-strategic-pause-immersive-pamjc/](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/launch-academy-announces-strategic-pause-immersive-pamjc/)
Selected Excerpts:
>While our graduates are of high caliber, there is a difficult cognitive leap for hiring managers to overcome when comparing our entry-level graduates with established engineers affected by recent layoffs. With such an ample supply of the latter, it leaves the former at a strategic disadvantage. Even with the best available preparation, there is no substitute for work experience.
>
With so much seniority in the job market, it's difficult even for the str…
I can't speak for all companies, but I am very confident in how the FAANG-level companies see this.
These companies don't make hiring decisions based on your resume.
They have interview types (e.g. system design, and technical behavioral) to test your practical experience and compare it to what they need for that position at the company.
You could say you have 10 years as a "Vice President Software Engineer at Goldman Sachs" (this is a real job title) and be leveled as a mid-level engineer at Meta.
Sadly the whole point of these interviews is to test real experience and you can't fake it. If you have the experience, you can fail because of lack of preparation and practice, but if you don't you can't magically get it without having it.
Unfortunately it's the job market and people aren't hiring junior engineers right now so there really isn't too much you can do.
The Codesmith strate…
Lying on your resume works, but it's kind of like being the person who always "takes a penny" and never leaves one in the "take a penny leave a penny" jar.
If everyone takes a penny, there's nothing left for anyone, including the people who actually need a penny.
RE: Background checks. It will absolutely come up with legit companies that run standard background checks through Hire Right and Checkr, etc...
What will happen is it will come back as "unable to verify" and the consequences are up to the company to decide if they care or not.
Some companies care about date discrepancies and some don't, and the magnitude of the discrepencies matter.
I know a common strategy amongst alum from Codesmith is to exaggerate on their resumes with a footnote that their experience is "developed under OSLabs".
When it comes to the background check, even though it's on the resume, a person can not…
Any bootcamp that's teaching you in 12, 14, 16 weeks is going to make compromises on something and be good at other things. So you have to look into each of the programs individually for what works for you.
Codesmith is a good place if you prove you can self study (and peer study) your way to basic coding skills, previous professional experience (not in coding) and you have the ambition and drive to exaggerate your resume a bit and hustle your way to a job, messaging hiring managers and presenting your projects as if they were the equivalent of mid-level engineering work.
I don't know anything about Actualize.
But other top programs like Launch School - which calls itself the slow way to get a job, is more about mastery progression.
Rithm is more about educational quality and getting your money's worth there, but is far less aggressive on the job hunt side.
Choosing the program for…
There is only about 6 or 7 weeks of materials and you spend like 1 to 2 days on major topics that individually take months to become even intermediate in.
You work on projects and get trained in how to communicate in your resume in messaging how to pass recruiting screens.
I pulled up the LinkedIns five people who just released one of their projects called ReacType and all five of them portrayed this project as full-time software engineer work at a Company for 3 months without specifying that it was a open source group project for a bootcamp and that it was 4 weeks of work.
Yeah sure DM me, I talked to a good number of people about bringing out of Codesmith is a good fit or not them.
If you are a good fit for how it actually works under the hood than it is a very, very uniquely good place to go.
If you are not a good fit for how it works under the hood. then you will not be so ha…
It's a personal choice. If you can commit the time and have a support system enabling you to do full time, I would do it full time. You honestly don't learn that much technically and getting it over with will accelerate your job hunt.
CSX is fine but it's pretty minimal compared to some more robust platforms. The best part of pre Codesmith is free workshops.
Codesmith doesn't do much paid marketing and advertising (other than Course Report) and CSX is a marketing tool to get you into the Codesmith ecosystem. Stumble on FREE CSX, join slack, meet others, go to a session, go to another session, and then you get pulled into the system.
I don't know anyone that recommends CSX as the only tool someone new should use the learn JS, I would start with a cheap Udemy course like Colt Steele.
I would break question apart into part time VS self paced.
I think Codesmith is probably the best part time program. But it's super intense still 3 hours a day + 6 hours saturday for NINE MONTHS STRAIGHT. For example, someone who said they have a job and want to part time but they can't imagine committing to nine months of no Saturdays for their family. So as with Codesmith's general offerings, it's ideal for ambitious single people with a lot of savings. I know some people who did part time even though they didn't have a job, to pace it more.
Now self paced is a whole other bucket. Most self paced programs have very low completion rates and they naturally have less of a community vibe as people start and stop and progress at their own paces. Because they rely more on self-motivation, it's hard to interpret outcomes the same way as a part time fixed program because of a lack of meanin…
Did you read above where I recommended the person go there?
I've asked you to stop repeating incorrectly that my company competes with Codesmith and the official on the record answer is we do not at this time. I've corrected that numerous times now and repeating that is harassing and I'm asking you to stop. If you think we compete with them prove it or say that it's your "opinion" that we compete with them.
Hmm it sounds of all the bootcamps Codesmith might be a good choice.
If you have been doing the tech consulting for a few years, consider career accelerators. I'm the co-founder of Formation but I don't think we would accept you with your background - need more direct SWE experience, but others are Pathrise and Interview Kickstart - to compare and see what's out there options wise.
I would also consider a CS masters - a bit slower and more expensive but a good option if you want it to go the honest and traditional route.
For example, if you go to Codesmith you might end up calling your consulting work Software Engineer on your resume and push to get senior jobs at non tech companies. And if that feels good, definitely do Codesmith, if not, maybe do a masters.
I know a lot about Codesmith. It's the best program at what it does, if you are ambitious, doing well as a ChemE/consultant, want a good job at a non-top-tier tech company, and have enough coding experience to pass the bar. If you will frame your experience in the most SWE way and run with it... it does work.
It's not a good place to go if you have no professional experience, want to be 100% honest about background, want an entry level job (you will be told over and over how you are a midlevel engineer by doing Codesmith), then it's not a good place to go.
Yeah having run a range of programs with different demographics, this is a huge challenge. People who are really ambitious think they can do it and a number of people will drop, and since this is completely NO COST, there is less reason to stick to it. I'm happy to try to send the right people their way for this but I'm waiting to hear more about who qualified.
You have to have "little to no programming experience" and Codesmith claims their free CSX platform produces engineers capable of getting junior roles at LinkedIn and Meta, and I don't know anyone even earlier in their journey.
Yeah it's really a good option if you live in NYC and meet the stringent criteria.
You are required to have little to no programming experience, and Codesmith claims that CSX's free curriculum prepares people to be junior engineers.
So presumably to qualify you can't even have don't CSX and have to be REALLY beginner.
I'm curious how the people will place and what kinds of jobs they'll get, the info says people are targeting $65K jobs which is lower than Codesmith's median Immersive ENTRANCE STUDENT HAS!!
The other risk is the time - 8 hours days 9 to 5 for 6 months is a VERY long time. People can't work day jobs and have to work nights and weekends, and that's not easy.
But all of this aside, if you meet the requirements and this works for you, this is a great option FOR FREE!!! compared to a lot of other options you have.
I think you mean this link: [https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/01/tech-layoffs-2023-list/](https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/01/tech-layoffs-2023-list/)
But yeah a lot of layoffs aren't SWEs, but there has been an increase in SWE layoffs in 2023 as well.
I was at Will Sentance's talk yesterday about the market in 2024 and I strongly disagree with the narrative that SWE jobs are changing. His premise was that Non-tech companies are hiring laidoff FAANG engineers to bring the same engineering bar to the non-tech companies, resulting in a ton of SWE jobs moving to traditionally non-tech companies.
Just not seeing that whatsoever. I'm seeing CODESMITH GRADS go to non-tech companies because they can't get hired at top tier companies in this market (because of the market, not because of Codesmith).
I'm seeing tech companies hiring very reasonably right now in mid level, senior and higher roles a…
If your current job is not in programming and you want a part time bootcamp, Codesmith is the only top one that has part time. Launch School Core is self paced and part time but the immersive capstone is not.
If you are already an engineer, look at Pathrise, Formation (disclosure: co-founder), Interview Kickstart for levelng up your career.
I think this is a really good interview. Elie is extremely transparent that the market is bad and it's impact their business, even vaguely suggesting that Rithm wouldn't be able to continue forever if people continue to not sign up and attendance is way down because the market is rough.
Meanwhile Codesmith's CEO is [tweeting](https://twitter.com/willsentance/status/1785384627378508272) about how unbelievably incredible Codesmith's outcomes are. Leaving out the fact that offers in general offers are down this year, he presents an uncharacteristically strong week as if it's the norm that happens from the Codesmith approach of applying for jobs.
Then look you lookup the person who got an Amazon job and see they have a ton of experience and are coming back from a very long career break. **Which is fantastic and I might recommend someone in that position GO TO CODESMITH TOO.**
It's extrem…
Codesmith has been asking alumni to write reviews over the past two weeks, resulting in 14 reviews in the past 2 weeks after having 2 reviews in the 3 MONTHS prior.
Can you DM me with more information about who is choosing between Codesmith and Formation? I think you have a super wrong view about what Formation is and does. If you don't want to reach out to clear this up, please refrain from misrepresenting Formation.
**12 out of 14 mention they were career switching and 2 don't say either way. ZERO of these alumni would have been admitted to Formation when they started Codesmith. 100% of them might be admitted to Formation now as alumni and moved on. And our new data (to be published Friday) shows that we helped engineers who placed in 2024 so far increase their first year total comp by** [**$109K**](https://formation.dev/terms#outcomes)
**So if anything, Codesmith + Formation would…
PRACTICE WITH ACTIONABLE FEEDBACK! Full disclosure that I'm the co-founder of Formation and I comment here a lot in a personal capacity, but this is my personal advice and I'm not trying to advertise Formation.
There is nothing like practicing and getting feedback and iterating.
You can do this for free by interviewing at 2nd choice companies or if you have friends who can run legit, high quality mock interviews (that simulate the real ones).
So I also recommend considering paid options, like [Interviewing.io](http://Interviewing.io), [HelloInterview.com](http://HelloInterview.com), [Formation.dev](http://Formation.dev)
Some people don't want to pay for prep and I'm not saying you have to, but it's working considering and knowing what your options are. Professional athletes all have paid coaches and it can be very effective. It can also be a waste of money, that's why you have to con…
In my opinion, people who leave prior to "finishing the program" are the largest problem with ISAs because that's when people get the most upset.... not only did they not get a job, but they didn't even finish everything!
For the ISAs we have, we don't have a "end of the program" and there is a clear refund policy if you leave early, but we try REALLY hard to proactively reduce costs to the value a person got if someone leaves early based on what they actually did and not just the calendar time in Formation the person is contractually required to pay. Like if Formation didn't work for you, but you had 25 mentorship sessions and did 100 hours of practice tests and tasks, and no issues reported in your weekly surveys and 1-1 checkins, then it's not fair to pay zero because you were on an ISA.
Wow what's with the tone? I think the biggest criticism of my view is that I was there 2009 to 2017 and left like 7 years ago now so I have an old view, but it's not a wrong view so I don't appreciate the attacking tone this is coming across as.
I did 450ish interviews. I trained interviewers on the ground. I attended dozens of hiring committee meetings and packet reviews with Shrep and Jay and Boz and the execs.
The amount of details they consider in those reviews is crazy. They look at the exact questions asked, and the interviewers history asking that question and their interviewers feedback history, etc...
It's not just like you memorize 50 questions and pass. I assure you that it's theoretically possible pass that way, and I assure you that's not the right way to do it.
I don't want to talk about this much because it seems like product placement, but I professionally mentor peop…
1. "I know people from Codesmith"... yes but if you look at all the Codesmith students you see that it is a very small number of people compared to the "3500+" alumni. Outside of Capital One, Amazon is a highest with a couple dozen, Apple, Google, Intuit, Square are single digit-ish special cases.... out of 3500 people. I'm not making any comments about Codesmith here, like if it can get 5 out of 100 people amazing outcomes then that's notable, but anyone who portrays that as the norm is misleading people as to how Codesmith works - that's my point. If I think you have a very strong chance of being one of those people, I will 100%, no strings attached, recommend you go to Codesmith, and I actively try to do that.
2. 100% agree Codesmith does NOT encourage any lying. It's almost awkward how they tell you so upfront "don't lie". But I thoroughly agree with this. That said, I cought the Di…
The resume itself would get through to an interview, and a recruiter or hiring manager at a big tech company would definitely figure it out during the interview.
I think this is why Codesmith grads who do this approach specifically typically end up at smaller companies. By the time they get the interview, if they do well, the companies is more open to taking a chance at that point... and like you said, they don't always do or care about background checks.
At Meta, the hiring committees will grill your resume too and it's just not possible to get through without having several errors take place. It's why if you look carefully at the Codesmith alumni at Meta, most were TEMPORARY CONTRACTORS FOR A CONTRACTING COMPANY!! and didn't work there, one or two were in non-SWE roles, and almost all of them are no longer there.
So short answer - it works at smaller companies and that's why Codesm…
It depends on what kinds of jobs and how you are framing your resume.
I've seen LinkedIn after LinkedIn full if extreme exaggerations and it might not even matter what you say about your bootcamp :(
Example:
There is a Codesmith grad that has the following LinkedIn (I'm not disclosing it for DOXing reasons but I'm characterizing it 100% accurately):
Jan 2024-Present: Senior Software Developer: - Large Fashion Company
Jul 2023-Dec 2023: Software Engineer, Contract - Small Company
->\[NOTE: Undisclosed subsidiary of the bootcamp itself\]
Jan 2023-Dec 2023: Software Engineer - Small Company
->\[NOTE: Undisclosed bootcamp side project framed as a company\]
Jan 2022-Jan 2023: Software Engineer - Small Company
->\[NOTE: Undisclosed 4 week long bootcamp group project framed as a company with no mention of the bootcamp\]
2016-2022: Full Stack Web Developer - Self Employer
-…
+1 to the industry needs to stop focusing on outcomes. I push the arguments for this a lot and often and get tremendous pushback from the Codesmith alumni and staff (including a leader that pushed back publicly).
Bootcamps shouldn't be 12 weeks and they shouldn't be about getting jobs only. Those types of bootcamps are done and over with.
They should be about the quality of the experience and education and about marketing to the right people that they think their program will work for.
It's why I push back on CIRR trying to force bootcamps into joining it by asking students to demand CIRR outcomes.
It's not 2021 and people focused on outcomes only are joining bootcamps for the wrong reasons - whether it ends up working or not.
In terms of ISAs though I just think you have to think of it as a loan nothing more. You have 3 options:
1. pay $X upfront
2. pay $Y a month for 4 years on…
Hi, most importantly we want to accept people into the Fellowship who we are confident we will help find jobs, and that can vary. But if we accept you, we are confident our mentorship approach will work, because if it doesn't and we support you for a really long time to find a job, our business doesn't work and we'll lose money and can't operate.
Second, our job is to prepare you for interviews, we are not a school or bootcamp that teaches curriculum and instead we are giving you a unique experience aiming to get you in shape for interviews - like a personal trainer for your job hunt.
The benchmark is one piece of the application and there is a minimum score - but for people around that score we will look deeper into the pieces of the benchmark.
You background and experience is also important. Currently we require 1+ years of SWE work experience and most people have more than that a…
Thanks that helps!
There are a few routes:
1. Try to get a data analyst-type internship this summer AND/or aim for data analyst jobs that will give you the chance to do scripting and coding on the job. And THEN try to transition to being a SWE - ideally at the same company by converting jobs there.
2. Do a post-bacc or extend a year and cram in as many CS courses as you can, and then go for new grad CS jobs. Big opportunity to cost to not working for a year, and a job is far from guaranteed, but his will give you the best computer science education.
3. Do a bootcamp. This is fast, so you don't lose as much opportunity cost from time. BUT bootcamps outcomes rely on a lot of luck right now and it's far from guaranteed. The cost is also probably higher than another year at Sac State (but arguably wouldn't matter because of the opportunity cost). If it doesn't work out, you don't rea…
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
Unlike normal Codesmith, it's a government requirement that people have "Limited or no prior experience with the basics of coding" so that is somewhat limiting for Codesmith's community I think.
Like Codesmith clearly advertises that CSX is all you need for a junior engineering job and that Codesmith is for midlevel and senior jobs.
So anyone who has done CSX likely has too much coding experience to join this program.
Ad hominem fallacy again, except you sprinkled in a personal attack too.
Logical fallacies don't win arguments. Facts do. Best lesson from my middle school debate class.
What public presentation of what data?
You have a completely wrong interpretation of what Formation is.
You are being condescending and offensive for you to tell me you know my company better than we know ourselves.
If Codemsith's CEO showed up we would have a very respectful back and forth I'm sure and he wouldn't be making logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks. If he did then I would tell him to his face what I'm telling you now.
I don't know what to say other than facts are facts and making up your own story based on your imagination doesn't hold up.
1. We don't compete with Codesmith. I've asked Codesmith to stop telling people that because it makes people like you think we do when it doesn't hold up in any capacity. The people that teach Codesmith do Formation, not the students, and maybe that is confusing but it shouldn't be.
2. "Often over 150 or 160k" is wrong and because you referenced CIRR earlier and should know that data. Their 2022 FTRI had about 780 starts, 732 grads. 708 job hunting. 574 had placements in 360 days. 499 had salaries and 121 had salaries over 140K. That is 15% of starts for 140K+ which is more people than make 150K, which is fantastic but it's not the norm.
Codesmith is an amazing choice for the right people and I tell those people to go to Codesmith, but portraying it as something…
Maybe the market sucks for bootcamp grads, and no one is going to them anymore?
Codesmith's enrollment is down 70% from peak and they laid off 1/3 to 1/2 their staff.
That's not a result of this sub...
Why can't this sub be trusted?
I've been talking very openly about Codesmith's problems in this sub and when they come true and Codesmith tanks doesn't that add credibility to all the stuff I'm saying rather than detract from it?
The only people submitting to CIRR left are: 1. Codesmith. 2. a school with 15 grads in 2022, 3. a school in Jakarta that didn't follow the 2024 guidelines.
Codesmith's outcomes for H2 2022 had a very large and unexplained jump in people who didn't respond tot the survey but accoridng to Codesmith's Director of Outcomes, were verified using "LinkedIn" as placements...
It's not terrible, but "only trusted source" is factually incorrect.
This is a major reason why the to
Two reasons:
1. There has been a crash in the influencer economy too, so fewer people are around advertising them
2. Bootcamp market has crashed so not many people going to bootcamps and the conversion cost of ads is too high.
One interesting thing is Codesmith just STARTED advertising with display ads!
Because the larger players have stopped advertising so much, people stopped Googling for the "best bootcamps" and finding the smaller "higher rated" ones.
So it makes sense to see MORE ads from the remaining smaller bootcamps that are surviving.
Codesmith's new Future Code Program is coming together, (free program for NY residents with no programming experience, aiming for a $65K+ first computer job), applications in May, starts July 29th
This page has been around for a while but it's coming together and just updated with the dates and more info about the program: [https://www.codesmith.io/future-code-nyc](https://www.codesmith.io/future-code-nyc)
This is a great program if you meet the requirements below!
Note that you have to have **"Limited or no prior experience with the basics of coding, no paid professional web development or similar experience, and do not have a Computer Science degree"**
It's going to be very interesting to see how these alumni market their experience and resumes and what jobs they end up getting.
The job market is tough and maybe the government has jobs lined up, otherwise this might be the only ti…
This is a really good AMA and Stephen Script always has solid, clear advice. But you also shared this exact same link two weeks below just two weeks ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1bhkmki/switched\_careers\_from\_healthcare\_to\_tech\_in\_under/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1bhkmki/switched_careers_from_healthcare_to_tech_in_under/)
I've done some anonymous surveying and almost all of the randomly chosen engineers and recruiters mistook many Codesmith grads OSP as employment experience.
I'm assuming the auditors would make the same mistakes at least one some occasions.
Even Codesmith's website listed a graduate employed at their OSP as their job, which is a one time mistake, but just showing that this is a problem on multiple fronts.
Do you give them specific instructions to not count OSPs or is it possible OSPs are being counted if someone presented their OSP as a job - against Codesmith's instructions?
1. I've explained numerous times why Formation doesn't publish CIRR or similar outcomes and that we aren't a coding bootcamp.
Since you seem to know Formation better than I do, explain to me what "graduation" means at Formation? This is the core principal of all bootcamp outcome standards that I can't figure out what that means for us.
If you can't explain "graduation" accurately then just back off and stop spreading nonsense about us. If you can thoughtfully read the specs and propose what it means for us, then we can talk keep talking about it productively about why I agree or not.
2. We advertise all over Reddit and we re-target people who visit our website. Drawing false conclusions is not fact. Raw data is fact. So asking "Why do I see ads for Formation in this sub?" and getting a completely open and transparent answer is exactly what I'm talking about being open and transparent…
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3 schools left in CIRR: one had 15 students for their entire year of reporting. One didn't even follow the new standard and they decided to let them publish anyways because otherwise you would have just Codesmith and a 15 person school left.
Codesmith and CIRR are tightly coupled. Codesmith is the only school who cares about CIRR and CIRR would be collapsed if Codesmith left
3 schools left in CIRR: one had 15 students for their entire year of reporting. One didn't even follow the new standard and they decided to let them publish anyways because otherwise you would have just Codesmith and a 15 person school left.
Codesmith and CIRR are tightly coupled. Codesmith is the only school who cares about CIRR and CIRR would be collapsed if Codesmith left.
Facts are facts and trolling or mass downvoting doesn't change that.
So the good thing about CIRR is you have to report how many people fall in these buckets, so it's all transparent.
The inadequacies though are that just because it's there, that's not good enough. If it's there but people have to analyze it to understand the real picture, it can be improved. If it's there but then companies just ignore it and tout their top level numbers, and saying that these are rigorous CIRR numbers, the best, trust us! It's leveraging the fact that no one understands or cares about these between the lines details and those are there primarily to make the standard APPEAR more trustworthy.
I'm not putting this one way or the other in this reply, just laying out both sides.
In all fairness their standard says loud and clear that the number of people who reported salaries needs to be listed on the website and I don't see it anywhere on Codesmith's website.
Both CIRR and Codesmith's Director of Outcomes stated that they want or are considering expanding CIRR to work for interview prep platforms.
I co-founded one of the 3 main interview prep platforms (5 if you count interviewing.io and hello interview)
So if someone adamantly believes that my company should be reporting to CIRR then they could see this as not impartial.
I explained emphatically why we have never even considered reporting to CIRR and why it doesn't make sense for us (can't speak for all interview prep companies but I imagine Pathrise would feel similarly given the over a dozen types of jobs it supports and the drastic difference in junior.vs senior outcomes)... that this kind of thing just doesn't work.
So I feel impartial in my head.
Significant\_Wing has been pretty neutral and consistent for a long time, I think they are just asking why I posted such an intense review of this.
Clearly vert few people case because no one showed up to Codesmith's CIRR recap sessions. Very few people commented on CIRRs AMA.
So I think the person is more saying, why bother caring about this because CIRR is largely irrelevant now.
I do it because sometimes it's in the little places that the people get manipulated the most.
Rithm, Launch School, and Codesmith are the three I always suggest looking at as a wide range of styles and types of learning. I'm currently NOT recommending Codesmith because they had 1/3 to 1/2 layoffs, and announced a number of changes and I want to let those settle in before resuming recommendations. I've heard that instruction is stabilizing as those laid off depart, but it will take a bit more time.
Line-by-Line Critique of CIRR Standard Document. Opinion: good intentioned organization but spec is not rigorous and robust and I point out all of the problems that make it one of the weaker specifications I've read in my opinion.
There have been numerous discussions around CIRR lately and there are too many words being thrown around, along with ad hominem attacks, and no one other than me seems to be reading the standard - even the CIRR board misquoted it.
I refuse to debate anyone further on here until they acknowledge this post and read it because any counter arguments not based on a thorough analysis of the spec are garbage conversations that don't belong on here. Thoughtful debates over lines of the spec are appreciated.
This is long and thorough and if it's too boring for you to read the whole thing then don't share your opinions about it.
If someone calls CIRR "**rigorous"**,…
1. This is a completely different thread about CIRR and you didn't give any context, didn't give any feedback privately or on that other thread, and are bringing it up here on a thread about Codesmith - all without any context. **I absolutely copied that comment from that person from CSX Slack in that thread,** and I don't apologize for it at all. Anonymizing a comment from a 20,000 public Slack community that anyone is invited to join is not morally or ethically wrong.
2. She said she was new to the community and then that "we" (without clarifying) started the Codesmith sub for "especially those who are new to Codesmith like me!"... to me that implied that all the people who started it were new to the community. I agree this could be ambiguous, and I think I should have stated something like 'I am interpreting this to mean that it was started from people only new to the community for p…
I agree with this. I'm someone who has to navigate this challenge and I can't just have it all ways that work for me and dismiss the consequences of having a public identity because I don't want to acknowledge them.
I have my real name. Some people appreciate that, but others are skeptical.
I state clearly when something I say is an opinion, but if I say it when also talking about my company I have to think about the consequences. Is this something my company would agree with, and if it's not, I might have to extra emphasize where the opinion is coming from, rather than just throw it out there.
Working at Facebook from 2009 - 2017 through some really challenge times (some for Facebook and others for humanity) I really saw why it's CRITICAL to have integrity in pubic discourse.
It's hard. Someone insults me and I'm defensive and emotional in my head. But if I bring that online and it…
I talk to people as friends and give contract advice, helping people with HR violations, people complaining about their work environment, it's confidential because the people asks me not to talk about it. This isn't "content" and people have a right to complain about their work environment.
I actually have no idea what she's talking about and don't want to assume, but if you are interpreting it as content I shouldn't have access to the Codesmith needs to sound the alarms and call in their engineering team no matter what the time and address this stuff. At any company that would be an SEV 0 emergency.
I understand this is a tough situation and I wouldn't be so tough if someone reached out to me privately, told me this, and we have a human conversation about it.
I feel really bad personally if she feels this way and if she reached out to me personally I would listen and try to help with…
I don't see anything that I don't think I shouldn't see, other than perhaps confidential things people share with me that I never repeat publicly but certainly drives my opinions about how Codesmith is run. Anything I talk about publicly is stuff Codemsith is choosing to share. Since they always talk about producing the leaders of tomorrow and senior engineers with strong capabilities I treat this stuff like it's intentional. If it's not intentional and they communicate this to me then I would help and report all this stuff, but it would require admitting that their technical and operations team is super is not remotely up to even the industry standard, never mind the best in industry.
I appreciate the clarification about your personal feelings.
1. I don't think this is fair that you say above:
>The AMA is something I’ve done on my own volition as Codesmith’s Director of Outcomes, to provide an open space to talk about our CIRR reports, reporting standards, and graduate outcomes
Yet this was advertised by your CEO and in you CSX Slack in a giant image as an ["Official Reddit AMA" ](https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T7X3836NN-F06SK9BNY9W/ama.png)
I genuinely feel bad about the personal feelings, but unfortunately you are also the Director of Outcomes who was doing an Official Reddit AMA.
2. Similar to another commenter, I was also offended by this, in my personal opinion:
> Please all - go have a great weekend! Get outside, read a good book, spend time with family and friends.
I stayed up until 1am doing a super important infrastructure upgrade at Formation. The…
I mean it wouldn't surprise me at all if people are showing up at Codesmith and saying that they want to join Formation soon? and should they do Codesmith at all? But that doesn't mean that we are an alternative to that program. And people aren't choosing to do Formation VS Codesmith and comparing their options and outcomes the way Annie portrayed above. If someone is doing that it's because they misunderstand.
On our side we actually encourage those people to do Codesmith and come back later. On their side if they encounter confused people and are portraying Codemsith and Formation as similar options then they are not helping at all in getting people to the right place at the right time.
I explained this above that our primary competitor is interview Kickstart and they have similar numbers on their website and a lot of people ask us and then we try to explain to them why it doesn't mean that much. but since it comes up from people that are casually comparing us and Interview Kickstart we decided to put it there with multiple paragraphs of detail on how it's calculated.
We're going to updating it soon with our new highest offer with someone who really wants to put it up there for whatever reason.
I can state officially that I am not aware of anyone in the past 12 months who received an offer/acceptance from Formation to join the Fellowship that stated to us they were considering going to Codesmith or Formation at the time and choosing between them.
There are people who apply to Formation who we tell to go to Codesmith first and the come to Formation in 1-2 years but we reject them. So maybe they are telling you they are considering Formation but it's actually not an option for them in reality?
I am aware of one person in the past year who was advised to go to this path that got a job instead of going to Codesmith and then came to Formation after 6 months or so of that SWE job.
I am very much aware of the highest Codesmith offer and that person was not a SWE and had 8 years of very good experience in their field and received a role in the field at that company, so that wouldn'…