Stay away from any bootcamp!!!!

It's honestly just a really bad time for a random person browsing Reddit to make the call to join a bootcamp. The market is crazy hard and successful bootcamp placements are edge cases rather than a reproducible outcome. Bootcamp enrollment has tanked, many layoffs and reduction in offerings. So that's a double whammy - bootcamps being less effective AND having less resources to make changes to try to be more effective. It makes sense the sentiment is overwhelmingly negative. The job market is looking like 2010/2011 and it's like bootcamps NEVER EXISTED right now.

The only people submitting to CIRR left are: 1. Codesmith. 2. a school with 15 grads in 2022, 3. a school in Jakarta that didn't follow the 2024 guidelines. Codesmith's outcomes for H2 2022 had a very large and unexplained jump in people who didn't respond tot the survey but accoridng to Codesmith's Director of Outcomes, were verified using "LinkedIn" as placements... It's not terrible, but "only trusted source" is factually incorrect.

+1 to this. This subreddit is FAR from perfect, but the sentiment here is a gauge of the overall bootcamp industry - whether it's more or less extreme, doesn't really matter. The sentiment is bad because the market is bad and acting as if bootcamps never even existed. I feel bad because some people DO have GREAT bootcamp experiences and they want to share that with the world, but sadly these are edge cases and not reproducible outcomes. I'm thrilled that you were the edge case of the bootcamp industry and got a good job, but that doesn't mean everyone else will.

Maybe the market sucks for bootcamp grads, and no one is going to them anymore? Codesmith's enrollment is down 70% from peak and they laid off 1/3 to 1/2 their staff. That's not a result of this sub... Why can't this sub be trusted? I've been talking very openly about Codesmith's problems in this sub and when they come true and Codesmith tanks doesn't that add credibility to all the stuff I'm saying rather than detract from it?

I don't know what to say other than facts are facts and making up your own story based on your imagination doesn't hold up. 1. We don't compete with Codesmith. I've asked Codesmith to stop telling people that because it makes people like you think we do when it doesn't hold up in any capacity. The people that teach Codesmith do Formation, not the students, and maybe that is confusing but it shouldn't be. 2. "Often over 150 or 160k" is wrong and because you referenced CIRR earlier and should know that data. Their 2022 FTRI had about 780 starts, 732 grads. 708 job hunting. 574 had placements in 360 days. 499 had salaries and 121 had salaries over 140K. That is 15% of starts for 140K+ which is more people than make 150K, which is fantastic but it's not the norm. Codesmith is an amazing choice for the right people and I tell those people to go to Codesmith, but portraying it as something that works for everyone is misleading. Rumors and anecdotal stories are how fake news spreads. The truth is some people have a life changing financial experience at Codesmith and most don't. Both of these statements are true, but the key is the qualifier word used. 3. Codesmith has terrible transparency. Their Director of Outcomes said, in response to my question that there was a large drop in people reporting salaries in H2 2022, that LinkedIn was used for CIRR verified placement data, but didn't go into details on what that means... I read their CIRR outcomes post and they skirt around the terrible market and only talk about positive things. Launch School and Rithm have been extremely transparent. Launch School went cohort by cohort and person by person and explained what happened in 2023 in an hour long video. Codesmith had a live session I attended with my real name and 3 people showed up and the CEO cancelled it in the first 10 mins and said he was going to do gardening instead because not enough people were there. And then said he would send out a recording of the past session and never did. Intention to be transparent is irrelevant if actions don't match. --- I'm not saying no one should go to Codesmith and I'm not saying everyone should. The right people should. THATS WHAT I'VE ALWAYS BEEN SAYING.

I'm happy it changed your life. Religion changes people's lives and people love to spread that when it works for them even though it doesn't work for everyone. I was talking about the 2bd CIRR call. I attended both of them. I make a number of statements but my comments were restricted and I could only message Will and he chose to not acknowledge all of them and certainly not timely. The epitomy of transparency I guess.

Ad hominem logical fallacy

Ad hominem fallacy again, except you sprinkled in a personal attack too. Logical fallacies don't win arguments. Facts do. Best lesson from my middle school debate class. What public presentation of what data? You have a completely wrong interpretation of what Formation is. You are being condescending and offensive for you to tell me you know my company better than we know ourselves. If Codemsith's CEO showed up we would have a very respectful back and forth I'm sure and he wouldn't be making logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks. If he did then I would tell him to his face what I'm telling you now.