Yeah they are preparing to release 2022 outcomes any day now so that means they just use the data you self submitted in the form.
The auditors don't check everything and they are just checking Codesmith's math and processes that they are following CIRR, they are not actually auditing that your salary is what you say it is.
It's one of the misunderstandings of CIRR. CIRR allows self-reported salary data without specifying how it should be verified so the auditors make sure Codemsith is following CIRR and ultimately involves a heck of a lot of self reported data.
My understanding is that your offer details form IS what they use for CIRR. Their auditor contacts a random sampling of people to confirm the numbers they have for you are what you told Codesmith originally and that's the extent of the audit
With the new CIRR rules, which have t been published yet (which isn't great because the outcomes might come at the same time as the new spec, not leaving time for anyone to give feedback on the spec, other than the 3 schools remaining in CIRR) so I can only speculate, but if you graduated in 2023, you might not get contacted until 2025 with the 12 months cycle. So try to remember exactly what you told Codemsith haha if it comes to an audit.
Yeah great point! These outcomes are still very strong and consistent with the industry changes in bootcamps.
My analysis is on the tougher side because Codesmith doesn't call itself a bootcamp, and it compares itself to the top grad school programs in the world so I'm anlyzing against the top in the world bar.
A student pasted some data shared with the alumni in a session and it showed that the median person with an offer sometime last summer was making $70Kish BEFORE STARTING CODESMITH. But this post isn't about "who should go to Codesmith", it's just an analysis of the data.
Codesmith posted an "Early Look" into 2023 outcomes w/ 2022 comparisons. My personal opinions and anlysis. Notable to me is both that median salary was $130K in 2022 and that it was $115K in 2023. Placement rates are missing, but I would guess much lower, for a double whammy 🥺
SOURCE: [https://www.codesmith.io/blog/early-look-2023-outcomes-and-analysis](https://www.codesmith.io/blog/early-look-2023-outcomes-and-analysis)
DISCLAIMER: These are my personal opinions about the data. I'm human and I make mistakes, but I'm giving my quick personal thoughts and opinions the most open and transparently I can, comments and corrections with sources are appreciated. I have a long history of being around this sub and giving my opinions from the FAANG angle, and the bootcamp angle (having worked with hundreds of bootcamp grads from all kinds of bootcamps over the years). I'm the co-founder of an…
Hey, thanks for sharing your experience with everyone, two follow up questions in bold below. There's a lot of common stuff I hear about career support at Codesmith (in terms of response times and the idea that they don't really care if you give up after a year because it won't impact CIRR numbers anymore). Additionally, people often report that alumni mentors tend to regurgitate the lectures, repeating the same solutions and people who get it, do well and people who don't just get told they are "hard learning" and to figure it out.
**I have a follow up question, which is how many people in your cohort do you think were in a similar boat, i.e. what was your approximate placement rate within 6 months?**
Codesmith aggressively markets that their alumni are mid-level and senior engineers and bluntly, I saw [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most…
Their goal is to hire you as an intern next summer, but it's fine to do internships this summer.
However, their goal is also to improve people's skills in hiring them and not just hiring people who are already at the bar. Formation is 15+ hours a week meant to improve you as an engineer, so they want people who are all in on that and not appearing to possibly trying to find a shortcut to get to Netflix.
So if you are committed and want to work at Netflix and ready to juggle Formation and an internship it probably can't hurt.
I know a ton of industry companies that don't hire bootcamp grads for these reasons.
So bootcamp grads have gotten creative with resumes to try to get by. And companies have raised entry level experience requirements to 4 years.
Codesmith is the one that stands out where grads [tend to do this](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/s/QfiCldAoPA) but they also tend to not get fired - some do, but I know many that have struggled to ramp up and not found it easy to catch up, the gaps become very evident but some people are able to fill them.
Yeah it's certainly interesting. It's more of an object oriented systems design than bug scale systems.
Netflix historically hasn't hired junior engineers at all so it's relatively new to hire interns and new grads, and I think that is why they look for some of these things - it's a culture biased to senior engineers.
The highest score is 1000 but it's not linear.
hello@formation.dev!
Anyone have any updates from CIRR and their new standards for 2022 full year outcomes? All the "official standards documents" on their website are "owned" by Codesmith's former product manager (!?!), not someone at CIRR, and haven't been updated in a long time.
Hi all, I'm hitting the slopes skiing in Japan and what else would I be doing but checking up on CIRR's website because we're all awaiting new updates any day now! However, I'm more concerned than ever that it's kind of falling apart :(
1. All previous data seemed to have disappeared, so there are no past reports to look at, zero data on the site. After the site changed ownership and hosting behind the scenes, I'm concerned they lost access to the previous data and it's gone :(. I would love any evidence anyone has if this is correct or not, just a theory because I can't imagine why they would delete all the old data.
2. I notic…
The SDE 2 role at Amazon is for people.with generally 2+ YOE as an SDE 1 or equivalent so you are much better off posting somewhere else.to get advice because most people here haven't been to a bootcamp yet, nevertheless worked already in industry.
Now if you want SDE 2 onsite advice, I'm quite qualified to provide that.
1. Your coding interviews are standard LC style,.usually medium to hard questions and occasional touching on very hard topics like DP. At Formation, we benchmark and practice exactly what you need to know for this but outside I would say you should be able to solve any LC Medium you haven't seen before in 25 minutes or less with a very clean solution.
2. Ping me if you get an offer for negotiation,.so I can compare that to other SDE 2 offers I've seen at Formation this month and let you know.exactly what to ask for. They are unique offer structures. Don't trust Blind o…
Yeah and those jobs to me are great first jobs and can be great jobs in general, just not what I call "solid tech SWE jobs". This companies have been hiring engineers for years and haven't changed that. Hiring ebbs and flows depending on the market, just like anything else. Banks doing fine with high interests hired a little more. Healthcare is hiring as more stuff moves online. These things go up and down and my point is there is no magical change in the world that results in those companies hiring more engineers now for jobs that didn't exist before .
I agree with your framing too, I awas being a bit flippant, but I would agree their stance is they are trying to make well rounded engineers who are leaders in todays world. My argument is that all of those qualities were things that always made a good engineer and that this hasn't changed, but I don't think it's a bad or wrong view to have.
To me it's not FAANG === tech. There are a lot of tech companies that are not FAANG but are "good tech companies", like [Bill.com](https://Bill.com), Twilio, arguable Salesforce. People use FAANG+ sometimes but to this is the definition (my personal one):
1. Engineers are empowered to make major decisions, if not are major deciders in most decisions
2. The company is product led - building the best tech-based solution to problems, and the money comes from that as a consequence
3. The company has strong technical chops in it's founding team (this is…
Thanks for sharing, this is why I'm almost jerking insisting that y'all ask for placement rates. A median placement time of 4 months doesn't mean much if it's only 10 people in that number versus 100 in the previous comparable number. (Not saying the outcomes are those, just an illustrative example)
\+1, yeah definitely agree it's good advice to push grads to follow the advice
I don't have the full context on this presentation, but I do think Codesmith can do more though than use data to convince people to do the same old same old because what worked in <= 2021, doesn't work the same now, and alumni that talk to me don't think Codesmith is doing anything to address that. They've added 2-3 career support engineers, but a number of people feel like Codesmith is telling them everything is fine it's just taking longer to find jobs.
But with all of this new data they share to convince people of this, they haven't given any placement rates to compare and people aren't happy so I'm giving that feedback :D
I have a ton of questions about this because I've seen similar numbers before:
1. What tools does Codesmith track to know conversion rates? Do they have a central tool that you have to log all applications in and what type of application it was? I work at a job hunting and interview prep platform and I know for a fact that people don't love logging all of their applications and tend to start logging them after the interviews start rolling in, so it could appear that conversions are higher but it's a lack of information. We have a completely custom in house built centralized platform for this and it's still hard! So I'm curious how people log the applications and how this data is collected.
2. This is really granular data, so what are the placement rates for people, I'm assuming they shared this if they shared that detailed data? Median time to offer is useful for one aspect, but if 100%…
Hi, I'm happy to answer questions and always like to hear what others have to think. I'll list just a couple of shorter comments to help answer, but feel free to me, I'm very open with people about if I think Formation is a good option to consider or not, and ultimately you have to decide.
1. It sounds like you are somewhat familiar with it at least, but just to clarify that we're not a bootcamp and have no fixed curriculum, lectures, classes, lessons, etc... We are a practice, benchmarking, mentorship, job hunting and mock interview platform. You do practice by yourself in in small mentor-led group sessions, you get feedback in those sessions and through benchmarkings, and you trust us to move you through topics and skill areas at whatever pace you go at, and you trust us to tell you when you are at the top company bar. So you are paying to reliably get your skills (from DS&A to System…
I can answer this very transparently, apologies it might be long or over detailed, but trying to explain clearly and openly.
Originally we worked with Leif to administer "classic" ISAs, which is something like, don't pay anything until you get a new job, then pay X% a month for Y months, capped at Z dollars, e.g. 10% per month for 15 months, targeting 15% of one year's base salary. These also had caps so if you make over $165K base salary, you won't pay more than the cap. If you didn't make $65K or more then your payments are paused until you do, or until a year passes in which case the contract is cancelled.
There's a lot of good things about classic ISAs as they really help people pay who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford, or be approved for an upfront cost or a loan.
The flip side is that, as I've said many times, the job market was particularly rough in 2023. Since we work with…
Yeah I know when Formation started, Outco was a big player, along with Pathrise and IK, but a lot of benefited from the tailwinds of the market.
In the toughest market, we had a notable drop in top tier placements (down to about 50% of placements from 70%ish) and first year TC increases dropped to 80K on average. I think our numbers still justify the cost of the program for us, but we can't change the market, I wish we could, but we're way too small!
But that said, I can see how it's harder for the teams to say focused and motivated. Employees might leave or do new things, or there might be layoffs. I know a couple of people that did Outco that came to my company later on and they felt like it didn't have the heart in it that they expected from the past (completely anecdotal personal reflection, ask people for yourself).
It's why every program is different. Like me and my partner have…
Codesmith's CEO explicitly said publicly several times that Codesmith's application to offer rate is 1 offer for every 50 Codesmith style applications. And he said the main factor in people not getting jobs is that it's hard to do these kind of applications (that involve personal messaging and a ton of reach out). He presents this as a funnel from application to recruiter screen to technical interview to offer and if you do the math it implies 1 offer for every 50 applications.
Do you agree or disagree with that?
I know Codesmith is soliciting feedback from students over the past few days because of a kerfuffle of some kind that people have told me about but I don't know all the details of. So if you disagree it would be good to tell him that.
I think the 12 month placement might be higher than 60% but we'll see. We know placements have been a lot slower, but it's hard to tell whose getting the jobs.
If I had more time or cared about this more I repeat my 52 person audit and cross reference their cohorts from some other data. Part of the reason the average time on OSPs was 12 months was becasue people tended to be job hunting longer and just had like June 2022 - present, listed for their OSP. But when you do all the accounting I don't have a strong sense of where this lands but I highly suspect 6 month placements rates of 50 to 60% are reasonable.
My nightmare that everyone should prepare for is if CIRR comes out and Codesmith has a 12 month placement of 78% or something, and touts that as not much different than the H1 2022 SIX MONTH rate of 83% (or whatever it is close to that) then I think that would be bad.
No one has a right to any data, but they have a right to say CIRR's data is outdated, sorry if that wasn't clear.
I don't think I'm pedantic about why we don't report CIRR results or other reporting standards, I'll try to explain again very bluntly and directly.
Formation is a mentorship and benchmarking platform and not a program or school so we don't publish CIRR-like outcomes data. We really want to publish more data but when we sit down and look at it, it's just almost impossible.
We had two $500K+ seniors Meta offers in the past three weeks - for people with a many years of experience and we recently had someone with a few months of experience get a role paying much less at a startup that they are thrilled with.
It's super meaningless to publish CIRR-like data that doesn't take background into consideration.
Sounds easy, publish data by experience level right? Now because we wo…
CIRR essentially collapsed and one of the board members took over and is trying to reboot CIRR.
I have no idea why all the historical data is gone but it's expected for CIRR results from 2022 to come out in February (i.e. this month).
The new results will look at a 12 month placement window in addition to 3 and 6 months, which is the cause for the delay.
The new director of CIRR is super reasonable but I disagree with almost all of this and I get the feeling like CIRR collapsed and lose it's members and the director has great intentions of rebooting it, but it's going to take a lot of time.
That said, the new Director just started a full time job and it's questionable how much time and effort their going to spend on CIRR.
Anyways, **there is absolutely no reason why schools didn't publish 6 month 2022 CIRR data and then re-publish the 12 month data under the new standard.**
At the…
Sorry to hear, yeah one of the reasons I talk about Codesmith so much is that they have a very polarizing brand of people who will fight tooth and nail for Codesmith and people who do not like it at all.
My opinion is the people that don't like it shouldn't have gone in the first place and chose to go because of the super positive promoters talking superficially about how life changing it is, but without going into the nitty gritty of how it all works and realizing it probably isn't the right thing for them. The info sessions tout $120/$130.... $180K salaries, and it gives hope to people who aren't a perfect fit that maybe they'll be one of those people. Maybe you will be but maybe you'll also win the lottery and people need to understand what THEIR OUTCOME might look like, and I talk to a lot of people about this because Codesmith does not help with this.
I highly recommend Codesmith…
Yeah I mean at Formation people pay us explicitly for interview prep mentorship so you can get resume reviews and mock interviews on demand (when you need them or ask for them), usually within a day, often same day, definitely same week, almost a 24/7 clock of availability across dozens of mentors across a dozen+ interview types. Occasionally people cancel mocks, or resume reviews take longer on rounds of feedback, but that's the bar for "career support" that people should expect if they are being promised career support.
The Codesmith career support is:
1. A handbook with a ton of very good resources, including the 'Codesmith Style Resume' and 'Codesmith Style Application' walkthroughs
2. 8 alumni you can book 1-1 sessions with who have varied schedules, some available in days, some in weeks, some never.
3. 2 alumni you can book for technical algo mock interviews who also have only…
One part of the polarization with Codesmith is that a handful of people do land FAANG jobs, even in 2023. Context matters. Someone got a job at Netflix, but it was a non-SWE job and it was in the field that the person had 8 YOE... which 100% CODESMITH HELPED THE PERSON, but this was not an outcome that anyone should EXPECT, it was a unique situation.
Someone got a job at LinkedIn recently, but the FAANG placements are really rare, because FAANG isn't interviewing bootcamp grads with no experience right now. If someone has experience then you might get a FAANG job.
\+1 to getting a good job at another company, they have a couple placements at Mavis Tire making in the mid six figures.
We (Formation) have formal and informal pipelines with FAANG companies and recruiters, and they are extremely picky about who they interview and I wish they would interview everyone, but they won't in this…
\+1 here. You got what you expected and going to Codesmith was probably the right call for you and has nothing to do with the 20% placement rate you observed. If you are looking at quitting your job and joining right now though, even if Codesmith will deliver the day to day that you expect, it's important to be real about the market and how long it will actually take to get a job.
I think their director is a reasonable person trying to make CIRR better, but there are hardly any schools left and Codesmith is the elephant in the room.
I mean I expect they will have to show 3 month, 6 month AND 1 year placement rates, and hopefully it will be clear people are taking a lot longer to find jobs.
I'm not anti CIRR or anti bootcmap, I'm just a perosn who believes in the win-win-win - student wins by being in the right place, bootcamp wins by making money, company wins by hiring the right person for the right job.
This is correct, I say 2+ YOE myself but maybe it's the definition of "difficult".
It's absolutely more competitive. I know Formation is working with a number of CURRENT OR FORMER FAANG ENGINEERS who are rusty and want to give interviews their best to stand out.
I'm super bias so I would argue that any current engineers benefit from mentorship to various degrees, but I am seeing it more competitive to get the offer.
People doing a great job on interviews but getting rejected is more common than in the past.
But if you have 2+ YOE, eepecially at FAANG, you'll get interviews for sure and you shouldn't have that difficult of a time. If you are come talk to me about Formation, Interview Kickstart, Pathrise, etc... because you might benefit from extra mentorship. If you worked at FAANG for 3-6 years, $5-$10K won't be a huge cost from your savings to save a ton of "difficulty" if that's w…
There are dozens of people being placed who graduated in 2023, and you'll find a lot who did. You'll also find cohort to cohort variances in both directions.
Unless Codesmith publishes all of their data, or you do an analysis based on GitHub projects in OSLabs, or LinkedIn, or various lists and info Codesmith has shared, there isn't going to be one answer.
A said B cohort which graduated in C and had a D placement rate. And collecting those statements, with no single one-liner answer overall.
They are being hired at companies like Mavis Tire random agencies like I can go through the list of placements. There are edge case top tier placements like someone on LinkedIn last week who didn't seem to have any particular experience. Someone got a mid-level job at Octa. each of these better placements has a different reason, One important factor is how people present their past work experience and frame it as engineering adjacent or flutter engineering work
One person in a public talk recently said that they had no relevant experience before the program and got a job pretty quickly after and their LinkedIn said that they had 19 years of experience as a web developer/software engineer.
Yeah my feeling was they were just going off reported offers, which could be from anyone at any time via a Google Form. And past alumni sometimes go back for negotiation help.
Seems disingenuous for them to say that though if they know placement rates are lower and have shared all this other data and numbers except for those.
They have an internal 2023 report that the CEO leaked in one of his talks so I know THEY know the data internally at least haha.
I've been extremely middle road in trying to examine Codesmith outcomes for a while now (I know I have personal opinions about the framing of OSPs and mid level and senior projects but on the outcomes I try to follow the facts). I am often attacked here on different sides because this is a controversial topic, but please try to have a fact based discussion, no one off anecdotes.
I think it's important to get more data on placement rates because Codesmith is presenting marketing that everything is going great, and we only have anecdotal and napkin math estimates for placement rates.
This is what Codemsith has said so far about 2023 publicly:
1. They had 600 offers (CEO in public talk)
2. There were 68 offers between October 15th 2023 to November 30th
3. There.is a blog post showing average salaries dipped to $110K medium but have been going back up.
4. Last week, the most recent 10 offe…
Yeah I love reading about people's stories, and the twists and turns along the way and it's a pretty detailed overview. He's certainly moved around a lot and jumping between film/tv and tech (and jumping from product to marketing and back).
I like the shift in narrative in general with Codesmith in 2024, Profiles In Tech and focusing on people having impactful jobs and stories, rather than just "we are the best", I think it connects more with people.
At the end of the day though, it's tough to run a 13 week 11 hour a day bootcamp in this market and I'm seeing a lot of "wordsmithing" with the marketing around placement times that demonstrates to me some concern that cohorts aren't filling up and they don't want people to delay or get cold feet because of the market.
So hopefully the market turns around or they make bigger changes to adjust.
P.S. I still diagree on the framing of the p…
Yeah that's not a bad idea if you can wrap up all up before YC. There's no way in heck you could do anyting, including sleeping, after starting YC.
But you might also find some cofounders or contract employees through Codesmith alumni and they are making a bigger push for this kind of thing.
Working at startups for free/part time/contractor is a great way for bootcamp grads to get experience.
From my experience it's a terrible way to build a company because of the lack of experience of those people. But if you are a startup and have no funding and no experienced friends to help, I know a number of fresh Codesmith grads who don't have jobs, can't get interviews and this kind of thing would be potentially a win win.
There are some grads and alumni who are actually starting to do this! I've heard of two cases myself.
Side note from longstanding discussion about Fanzter :P, u/Swami218…
Bootcamps closing up shop entirely should be pretty rare even if they don't do well.
First off - unit economics.
Anyone can do the math. Let's take Codesmith, because I know their structure super well, their salaries, and they have a very consistent experience.
THIS IS AN ESTIMATE FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES BASED ON MY OPINIONS AND PUBLIC JOB POSTINGS AND REPORTED SALARIES, DO NOT QUOTE THIS AS FACT
ONE COHORT: 13 weeks (cohorts overlap for 6 weeks)
1x Lead Instructor - $170K -> $20K for 6 weeks
1x Instructor - $130K -> $15K
1x Mentor - $100K -> $11.5K
3X Fellows -3X 40 hours @ $25/hour -> $18K
Admissions person - $60K -> $7K
Operations person - $70K -> $8K
Outcomes person - $70K -> $8K
Career support at $25/hour, 2 per week \* 6 weeks \* 35 students = $11K
Management (COGS only) (spread across 4 timezones, lead intstructors, director of program management, etc...): $2M ->…
Two reasons.
1. Setting proper expectations
The reason I think it's important is that I've seen info sessions where employees straight up tell people that you don't need a degree or any relevant experience to get a job, followed by reading out 10 offers ranging from 80K to 170K, making it feel like anyone on Reddit reading reviews from these people can also get the same outcome.
I'm showing my observations that there's a lot more to it than just a line cook at Applebees who was good at math becoming a senior SWE in 4 months making $150K.
That people who are successful might not be aware of how background and their representation of their background massively impacts the outcomes, as the people exaggerating the most present live on camera that they aren't exaggerating or aren't benefit from their backgrounds.
The unique thing about Codesmith is that the grads who this works for, do…
I'm not a gatekeeper, but objectively, one story does not prove anything in either direction, whether a good or bad outcome. If 100 people complain about outcomes, and 1 person got a job, that doesn't meant the "gatekeepers" are wrong and if you follow that logic you are setting yourself up failure.
The truth is often in the details, and Codesmith is a good example of 80% placement within 6 months turning into 70% within 12 months, is a good example of that detail. It's really not as binary as people make it seem in this sub.
An important thing to note is not so much if you will get a job but when you'll get it.
Codesmith had an 80% placement within 6 months of graduating for H1 2022 grads. And the reported, unofficial, numbers people are reporting are around 60 to 70% within 12 months for 2023 grads.
That might still be a very solid number compared to a lot of programs, and a strong reason to go there, but people in 2023 unexpectedly spent A LOT longer job hunting, and fewer people still got jobs... and the ones that did appear to be severely [exaggerating their LinkedIns](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/)
I agree with the commenter that the top programs are still the top programs, offering the best experience , but regardless of which programs you are looking at, only sign up if you have a significantly longer time horizon for getting a…
Well the data does show that 2023 was a rough year and there's no way to sugarcoat it and there's no silver lining - it was tough because companies have been cutting back, e.g. laying off their DEI teams, and they went back to basics for entry level hiring - i.e. sending recruiters to top tier Computer Science schools.
That said, some people get jobs!
I'm still seeing about 1 offer a day at Codesmith. Those people had an average of 11.7 months listed as "experience" from their 3-4 week long group projects though - [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis\_of\_52\_most\_recent\_codesmith\_offers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/)
Those people haven't been posting here as much because why would you if you got your job through exaggerations. If you claimed you had 2 YOE in your resume and you…
I've worked with a couple dozen Codesmith people later on who have paid for Formation for their second, third, fourth job transitions and many still get advice from Codesmith at the same time. The main problem is those support engineers are like your PEERS at Formation and the mentors are actual FAANG-level recruiters and engineers who give better perspective for how top tier companies.
For example, someone's Codesmith mock interviewers told them to "practice their buzzwords more" and they have two mock interviews who focus on DS&A - who could be peers at Formation, versus dozens of FAANG-tier senior, mid, staff, manager level engineers you can choose from to do mocks with at Formation.
These alums have found the Codesmith network useful for referrals because people tend to stay connected for years after graduating.
If you get an offer on your own, free negotiation help from Eric K is…
Interesting, yeah I would like to see more data on placement times.
Codesmith has provided a whole blog post on salaries in 2023, and published a bunch of aggregated data in info sessions, like schools people went to and industries people got jobs in.
So it should be trivial to publish the length of time it took people in those placements, since they do that for CIRR already.
Maybe prospective students should push them on that. Slower placement times don't mean anything bad about Codesmith, but it's critical to know about if you are planning your life and savings.
Do you have more stats on that btw? I have good data on offers/outcomes but not on placement rates.
I do see a number of those offers are peopl way more than 6 months out, and as you saw in my illustrative analysis, people who take longer and longer tend to have their OSP's appearing as more and more "experience" the longer they wait, which would help with getting interviews in this climate.
Yeah Codesmith is a place where people intentionally delay their job hunt start date to teach and many of those people find that time both challenging and useful.
\- They are paid about $50K a year, which is much lower than the $120K job expected at Codesmith, but people see it as continued learning and don't mind the "lower" pay.
\- The time windows for CIRR get bumped until the end of the TA-ship
\- A handful of these people get hired as full time mentors, paid $80K to $100K and have a pathway to becoming an instructor paid at $120Kish if an opportunity arrises.
So this is a very unique pathway but one that Codesmith has gotten working like a machine and it's been critical, in my opinion, to helping them scale very well.
2024 Bootcamp Predictions Mega Post. Revisiting my 2023 prediction post and exploring what I see ahead for 2024. 2023 was a rough year for bootcamps and the future doesn't look great for traditional programs - 2024 will be a year of caution, but I'm optimistically excited to see what happens!
Hi all 👋 for those that don't know me, I'm Michael, daily commenter here for about two years. Congratulations to the sub on hitting 40K members today! It was around 10K when I first joined!
**Background**
I'm the co-founder of a mentorship platform and work with a large number of bootcamp grads later on in their careers in their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, job transitions. Before this I worked at Facebook from 2009 to 2017 as it grew from 200 engineers to 10,000 engineers and leveled up from an intern to an E7 principal engineer in about 5-6 years. I did over 450 interviews of everything from interns to dire…
I agree a lot with this point, but I think there is value of all sides and often say reality is usually somewhere in between.
The most important thing is to have well sourced and correct information, otherwise people can't make good calls. If you have something from two people, say it's from two people. If you have a complete data set, say it's a complete data set, and have integrity in what you put out there.
The challenge with the bootcamp market is that bootcamps (which as for profit businesses they have every right to) are in the other camp, where they make things sound the best possible and it's good to see more sides of things.
For example, CIRR decided to remove all their reports on their website and delayed publishing of 2022 reports so they can publish longer placement windows. You can argue this is a good decision for transparency, but in the mean time, Codesmith had their…
Hi I can comment, I'm one of the co-funders and heavily involved day by day, so my answer is super biased, but I can tell you about what we do and why we do it.
First off, we're not a bootcamp and we don't have a curriculum or teach anything. We're a mentorship platform to practice, benchmark, and prepare for interviews and become a stronger engineer while doing it. Everyone does different things with us and the personal trainer analogy below is pretty good imo... we help you get from A to B with your job hunting goals and your path to get there will look unique to you.
Second off, the vast majority of people we work with have 1+ YOE as SWE (often more) and are currently employed and doing Formation part time on the side. Our platform supports you ramping up or down your commitment every week, so people practice at their own pace and it tends to take people about 6 months or so before…
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
New info:
\- One of the final employees at Fanzter who was involved in the deal didn't know who Eric was and had to look him up.
\- This employee said that Disney had no interest in purchasing Fanzter or Coolspotters and that the purpose of the deal was to pay back the investors in Fanzter as a guesture as the talent was being hired by ESPN to work there and Fanzter was shutting down.
Whatever you call that, it's not something I would show off as the way I introduce myself.
If you want to redo the deep dive I did, look at court records, secretary of state records, and contact the people involved in the deal. It costs a lot of money to get those records, I spent about $100 doing so because this is a very serious claim that's core to Eric's identity so if it's not true I need irrefutable evidence of what happened because making sure a claim.
I'm happy to chat over DM about more about the process I did. People can make official "off the record" comments and statements so there is some things I can't talk about ethically, but I can go over the process I used if you wanted to try to repeat it.
The summary of the story is that the company wasn't doing well, Aaron left in 2013 to go back to ESPN (and is now the CTO of Disney's online services) and was down to two engineers in 2014. They got sued in early 2014 for copyright infringement and shortly after those tw…
In all seriousness, the reason for Codesmith alumni's heavy, anonymous presence on Reddit is becasue people [exaggerate to get jobs](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/) and if they out themselves on LinkedIn or somewhere else or give more details about who they are, they risk getting "found out" by colleagues and losing those jobs. I talk to my friend at a recent hiring and asked them if they knew a specific Codesmith grad the company just hired a few weeks ago had no experience (obviously friendly and off the books) and they said no idea from the resume or interview. So it's totally in people's interest to not share their success in any way that might reveal who they are, if it's based on stretching the truth.
At Formation, we had someone start at Meta this week and she happily participated in a blog post about her job…
I don't know what "support" means but.I can list out what I've seen people do. Codemsith adamantly claims to not help people lie so I assume they'd re not helping with most of this but it's possible they are and that is "support"
1. Stretch things, turning fast food-like jobs into technical jobs
2. Go back to school
3. Work at Codemsith itself, either as an instructor or another role
4. Be a fellow and stretch the length of time on that
5. Do unpaid internships or contracts that aren't documented as placements I told they can neither convert or get another job
6. Work on projects independent of Codemsith
7. Do another paid program afterwards, like an interview prep or career accelerator
8. Follow Codemsith networking advice
Codemsith will help any time with career support conversations so they offer those to all these people, but there isn't anything tangible that they do specifically f…