Well the data does show that 2023 was a rough year and there's no way to sugarcoat it and there's no silver lining - it was tough because companies have been cutting back, e.g. laying off their DEI teams, and they went back to basics for entry level hiring - i.e. sending recruiters to top tier Computer Science schools.
That said, some people get jobs!
I'm still seeing about 1 offer a day at Codesmith. Those people had an average of 11.7 months listed as "experience" from their 3-4 week long group projects though - [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis\_of\_52\_most\_recent\_codesmith\_offers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/)
Those people haven't been posting here as much because why would you if you got your job through exaggerations. If you claimed you had 2 YOE in your resume and you didn't have that, why would you talk about it You only risk getting doxed and possibly losing your job.
I'm also hearing anecdotally that Tech Elevator's local hiring partners are starting to hire again in their main cities, and I think that approach is a great way - to have partnerships to get people into entry level roles. But again, far from guaranteed.
u/Soft-Introduction876 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Which boot camp did you join may I ask?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
An important thing to note is not so much if you will get a job but when you'll get it.
Codesmith had an 80% placement within 6 months of graduating for H1 2022 grads. And the reported, unofficial, numbers people are reporting are around 60 to 70% within 12 months for 2023 grads.
That might still be a very solid number compared to a lot of programs, and a strong reason to go there, but people in 2023 unexpectedly spent A LOT longer job hunting, and fewer people still got jobs... and the ones that did appear to be severely [exaggerating their LinkedIns](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/)
I agree with the commenter that the top programs are still the top programs, offering the best experience , but regardless of which programs you are looking at, only sign up if you have a significantly longer time horizon for getting a job.
u/ToughAd5010 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Congratulations! Forget the naysayers and gatekeepers.
I saw people with little to no experience from my Coding Temple cohort get jobs in the few months afterwards.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I'm not a gatekeeper, but objectively, one story does not prove anything in either direction, whether a good or bad outcome. If 100 people complain about outcomes, and 1 person got a job, that doesn't meant the "gatekeepers" are wrong and if you follow that logic you are setting yourself up failure.
The truth is often in the details, and Codesmith is a good example of 80% placement within 6 months turning into 70% within 12 months, is a good example of that detail. It's really not as binary as people make it seem in this sub.
u/bdtechted wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Lack of proper mods here, they must’ve given up cause of the current situation of the job market. There should rules like not attacking or shooting people down for choosing the codebootcamp route. Hope the moderators come back and impose them.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I use my real name and identity here and have been here for almost 2 years and have seen so many people come and go. New accounts popup and are super active for months, then get deleted and disappear, and new ones come up.
I've seen disgruntled throwaway accounts. I've seen people super excited about their job placement get fired and disappear. I've seen people super excited BEFORE a bootcamps, only to complain after finally going through it. I've seen a lot, and I wish more people were reliable sources of information.
u/ds_acolyte77 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I was able to get a job in Jan 2023 after my 6 month boot camp ended in Nov 2022. It’s definitely possible. The current issue is that companies are looking for more experienced candidates (3+ years of exp).
I think part of the reason for the added emphasis on experience is that
u/michaelnovatireplied·
\+10000% thanks for sharing your story here. It's just one anecdote, but it aligns with my observation as an industry veteran that the first job is just the BEGINNING. Celebrating a $120K first job and luring in more people eager to make six figures overnight is very counter productive.
The most important things you need to ask yourself when considering a bootcamp are:
1. if you are in it for the right reasons, i.e. you love problem solving
2. you see your first job as a baby step towards a lifelong journey where you will judge your own success in 10 years and not based on your first job out of the bootcamp.
3. you find the right program that will work for your style of learning and growth
u/silotough wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I’m ~10 years in. Bootcamp was a better investment than my bachelors. If you love the work, keep grinding, you’ll get there. If you don’t, look for tech adjacent roles. Technical PMs are worth their weight in gold
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I'm not doubting your specific situation, but in general I think it's really hard for most people to say which path is better, since they can only experience one, the other, or both in one order.
The software industry people can make 10 to 100X more if they are exceptional, so people making say $200K after 10 years, might have made millions of dollars through a different route - most wouldn't but I know a number of people as friends and acquaintances that made 7, 8, 9, 10+ (i.e. billionaires) figures and I'm friends with a couple of billionaires too, and if there is any pattern it's that they all got extremely lucky in choosing amongst opportunities made available to them because of their CS programs at Stanford, Harvard, CMU, MIT.
Again, the right call for you is not the right call for everyone, and I'm glad the bootcamp worked out for you, but there is a lot more to the decision than just bootcamp VS CS degree.
u/Leadership-Thick wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
In like 2013, it really was basically everyone. I went to hack reactor in 2013 and about 10 out of the 30 in my class went straight into fang-or-adjacent jobs. Two things explain this:
1. Early students were just a different calibre of people; seriously committed and spent every
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Agree with most of this too, but one note is that in late 2023 early stage (seed) startup funding INCREASED because it was the only place VCs could put money to hit target returns - as late stage valuations were tanking and IPO outcomes were not good.
So very early stage startups are actually a good place to look right now.
u/metalreflectslime wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
>70% within 12 months (anecdotal, unofficial)
This is far better than what I have heard from other coding bootcamps like Coding Dojo, General Assembly, Hack Reactor, App Academy, etc.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I've heard anecotally 50% to 70%, and since we have no official numbers, it's hard to tell and just anecdotal.
I know you saw [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/), and I think how those placement happens is also important.
Zooming out, I don't think 12 months is a reasonable timeframe to look at. If you go to a 12 week bootcamp for 700 hours and then spend 9 months part time 20-30 hours a week of DS&A and projects, you'll end up spending more time on materials completely unrelated to the bootcamp and the outcomes are less meaningful... but still important to know.
If you are going to pay a bootcamp 20K for 12 weeks - and maybe pay other people more after that - and to get a job in over a year, the comparisons to CS degrees, post-bacc, and community college become more relevant.
u/DragonfruitVivid3110 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I graduated Codesmith in early 2023 and got a job within 2 months. I have a bachelors but no previous tech experience. I am lucky to almost have a year of experience at this point but I think my cohort is sitting at about 20% employed as SWEs after almost one year from graduating
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
Can you elaborate more on the 20%? I'm following Codesmith placements and been hearing 40 to 70% estimates from people but 20% is the lowest I've heard.
I would be surprised because that was probably the worst time to graduate.
u/DragonfruitVivid3110 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Well the cohort keeps in touch via Discord and only 8 out of the 34 (so around 24%) of us are working as SWEs that I’m aware of. The others are either still looking or have fallen out of contact. There is of course a chance that some of them got jobs and didn’t tell the Discord o
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Thanks, yeah curious how other cohorts are fairing. We're going to have to wait until early 2025 to know how 2023 people did and by then no one will care, so any information you are allowed to share is appreciated!