← Timeline

Where to find CIRR Data

r/codingbootcamp

u/Primary_Initial_3274 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

To be frank, your own program has never published outcomes data despite you being extremely granular and overly pedantic about this reporting. Most bootcamps don't publish outcomes data to the rigor of CIRR does which is why hardly any of them participate. CIRR is a **volunta

u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
No one has a right to any data, but they have a right to say CIRR's data is outdated, sorry if that wasn't clear. I don't think I'm pedantic about why we don't report CIRR results or other reporting standards, I'll try to explain again very bluntly and directly. Formation is a mentorship and benchmarking platform and not a program or school so we don't publish CIRR-like outcomes data. We really want to publish more data but when we sit down and look at it, it's just almost impossible. We had two $500K+ seniors Meta offers in the past three weeks - for people with a many years of experience and we recently had someone with a few months of experience get a role paying much less at a startup that they are thrilled with. It's super meaningless to publish CIRR-like data that doesn't take background into consideration. Sounds easy, publish data by experience level right? Now because we work with people from non traditional backgrounds, there's a huge difference between someone self taught with 5 years of contracting experience vs someone who worked at Amazon for five years and wants a new job. So the number of years of experience also doesn't tell the right story. We've been focusing on increase in compensation because it shows that people that come to Formation and get a new job, increase their first year total compensation by about $80K (see the site for the latest). This approach kind of combines experience, skill, background into your previous salary number and then shows that if you spend $7500 at Formation and get a new job at the end, you'll on average be paying for that several times over in your first year. That's convenient for us for marketing that people who successfully place on average increase their income but that's the whole point - you make an investment in yourself, you can make a return on the investment, and if we make money too, that sounds like a good win-win-win business model. I think one thing we can try explain more is people who leave Formation early before getting a job, or the time it takes to get a job. It's again hard to bucket, because most people are currently employed and doing Formation part time so they go at their own pace. But to me estimating the amount of time for a specific individual factoring in all of the person's circumstances that it might take to get a new job would really help people plan is the biggest missing piece I would like to communicate and we have no intention of publishing more CIRR-like results.