Their goal is to hire you as an intern next summer, but it's fine to do internships this summer.
However, their goal is also to improve people's skills in hiring them and not just hiring people who are already at the bar. Formation is 15+ hours a week meant to improve you as an engineer, so they want people who are all in on that and not appearing to possibly trying to find a shortcut to get to Netflix.
So if you are committed and want to work at Netflix and ready to juggle Formation and an internship it probably can't hurt.
I don't know but Codesmith is one of them, also don't know who the new president is.
If the new president is from Codesmith then it basically makes CIRR a marketing tool to validate their outcomes, just like GRAD for Hack Reactor and Rithm 's own standard. Which is totally fine just have to realize that.
There are no bodies and I don't expect one to happen because CIRR had more force than anyone and failed to get schools on board.
Yeah Codesmith has a sister charity called OSLabs and that charity does background verification for your time at Codesmith plus additional time you worked on your main project afterwards.
A letter was forwarded to me and it doesn't say Codesmith anywhere. It's "X was a software engineer working on Y as part of OSLabs"
I know a ton of industry companies that don't hire bootcamp grads for these reasons.
So bootcamp grads have gotten creative with resumes to try to get by. And companies have raised entry level experience requirements to 4 years.
Codesmith is the one that stands out where grads [tend to do this](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/s/QfiCldAoPA) but they also tend to not get fired - some do, but I know many that have struggled to ramp up and not found it easy to catch up, the gaps become very evident but some people are able to fill them.
Yeah it's certainly interesting. It's more of an object oriented systems design than bug scale systems.
Netflix historically hasn't hired junior engineers at all so it's relatively new to hire interns and new grads, and I think that is why they look for some of these things - it's a culture biased to senior engineers.
The highest score is 1000 but it's not linear.
hello@formation.dev!
No, you'll also need systems design topics covered. In terms of getting accepted, having a good video is a start! Reaching out to team members won't help and all applications will be reviewed fairly. But if you are nervous about the application or have logistical questions please reach out to the team.
Good question!
Netflix is looking for all kinds of skills beyond just DS&A, such as systems design skills, and you'll work on all of those during Formation.
Second, the assessment is just a gauge your readiness and doesn't have any actual code in it. To have the highest chance possible of passing the interviews you also need to practice other skills for how to work through a problem live with the interviewer, breakdown problems you haven't seen before, communicate well, and right clean code. So all of those things are things you'll work on as well.
Other people might have weaker DS&A but lots of potential and the program works for those people as well and will adapt for the things you need to work on.
I can clarify that my motivation for the original post was to point out that CIRR appears to be falling apart and that Codemsith is the only entity left with motivation to keep it going, so that a former Codemsith employee being connected to CIRR to work there could possibly indicate close and control between CIRR and Codesmith.
That's all, I don't think I implied anything about anything nefarious going on or changing standards or a Codemsith person backdooring anything and if I did, I'm happy to edit that to make it clearer.
When I reread the title, it's not the best, it's limited to 300 characters and I could have done better. I'm literally skiing all over Hokkaido and waking up at 5am every morning to work and dropped the ball a bit with the title in terms of communicating what I intended. The content itself is only briefly about Codemsith and is mostly about concerns about CIRR.
Yeah I mean I'm not trying to call any individuals out, except maybe Eric K because he seems to be at the center of all the stuff people tell me about that is personal about me by name. But the CIRR people: nothing personal in calling this stuff out, literally just open and transparent and want people to see interesting realities
Words are easy, actions are hard.
It's even more weird if a CIRR.org owned Google Drive is being edited by a former Codesmith employee, no?
Like it's not flip the table conspiracy theory, it's just this is not the bar I expected from CIRR or from Codesmith and they all need to get their stuff together! Codesmith has so many problems with their website, privacy, cookies, sharing of data, I don't know where to even begin, and this CIRR thing isn't helping convince me otherwise lol
Yeah, when the times are good, people can't wait to shout the results from the rooftops, when they are bad, lots of excuses, changing the metrics, changing definitions, etc...
The USA is a capitalist market and the companies are doing what they should be doing, and we as consumers (I mean I represent a company too and I need to always disclose that, but I'm on Reddit representing myself personally) also need to do what we need to do our homework as well.
Anyone have any updates from CIRR and their new standards for 2022 full year outcomes? All the "official standards documents" on their website are "owned" by Codesmith's former product manager (!?!), not someone at CIRR, and haven't been updated in a long time.
Hi all, I'm hitting the slopes skiing in Japan and what else would I be doing but checking up on CIRR's website because we're all awaiting new updates any day now! However, I'm more concerned than ever that it's kind of falling apart :(
1. All previous data seemed to have disappeared, so there are no past reports to look at, zero data on the site. After the site changed ownership and hosting behind the scenes, I'm concerned they lost access to the previous data and it's gone :(. I would love any evidence anyone has if this is correct or not, just a theory because I can't imagine why they would delete all the old data.
2. I notic…
This could be two questions, so I'll answer both:
1. Last summer we ran a smaller program and many people received offers, and those that didn't found all the training was did helpful in other interviews and I think people unanimously found the program very helpful according to the exit survey they all do, and anecdotally. These engineers were preparing for full time roles though and not internships.
2. If you are asking if a non-Netflix program Formation Fellow has gotten a job as Netflix intern, then no. In the paid Fellowship, we work with people with existing SWE work experience and we don't work with college students looking for internships, so it wouldn't be expected for them to get internships.
The SDE 2 role at Amazon is for people.with generally 2+ YOE as an SDE 1 or equivalent so you are much better off posting somewhere else.to get advice because most people here haven't been to a bootcamp yet, nevertheless worked already in industry.
Now if you want SDE 2 onsite advice, I'm quite qualified to provide that.
1. Your coding interviews are standard LC style,.usually medium to hard questions and occasional touching on very hard topics like DP. At Formation, we benchmark and practice exactly what you need to know for this but outside I would say you should be able to solve any LC Medium you haven't seen before in 25 minutes or less with a very clean solution.
2. Ping me if you get an offer for negotiation,.so I can compare that to other SDE 2 offers I've seen at Formation this month and let you know.exactly what to ask for. They are unique offer structures. Don't trust Blind o…
It's more like this:
1. apply with the best channel, i.e. referrals if possible
2. send message to hiring manager/with the application - as personal as possible, referencing blogs or videos, or unique connection to company OR something special about your background
3. send double down - similar message to 2 but to an executive or very senior person and doing it shortly after 2.
4. follow up - if you don't hear back after a few days
But yeah I really don't buy that 5% of these end up in offers and the data sourcing seems iffy. I totally agree with this method but they literally tell people that this will result in a "minimum 20% conversation rate" and I don't buy that.
Yeah and those jobs to me are great first jobs and can be great jobs in general, just not what I call "solid tech SWE jobs". This companies have been hiring engineers for years and haven't changed that. Hiring ebbs and flows depending on the market, just like anything else. Banks doing fine with high interests hired a little more. Healthcare is hiring as more stuff moves online. These things go up and down and my point is there is no magical change in the world that results in those companies hiring more engineers now for jobs that didn't exist before .
I agree with your framing too, I awas being a bit flippant, but I would agree their stance is they are trying to make well rounded engineers who are leaders in todays world. My argument is that all of those qualities were things that always made a good engineer and that this hasn't changed, but I don't think it's a bad or wrong view to have.
To me it's not FAANG === tech. There are a lot of tech companies that are not FAANG but are "good tech companies", like [Bill.com](https://Bill.com), Twilio, arguable Salesforce. People use FAANG+ sometimes but to this is the definition (my personal one):
1. Engineers are empowered to make major decisions, if not are major deciders in most decisions
2. The company is product led - building the best tech-based solution to problems, and the money comes from that as a consequence
3. The company has strong technical chops in it's founding team (this is…
I mean just look at the code yourself! I looked at two of the recent launches and found tons of commented out code without any reason why. Like a rushed school project flailing to the finish line, and then no further changes made to clean it up. It's not anywhere near real "work" in any stretch of the imagination - at least at strong tech companies, maybe it is at other companies.
Again, not bashing the students, it's just the nature of doing this thing in 3-4 weeks. Even though people can keep working on the projects - with vast majority not doing so - I see massive problems in the long standing stable OSP projects as well - like the ability for a bad actor to wipe a bunch of data from their database (which was disclosed privately to them)
Thanks for sharing, this is why I'm almost jerking insisting that y'all ask for placement rates. A median placement time of 4 months doesn't mean much if it's only 10 people in that number versus 100 in the previous comparable number. (Not saying the outcomes are those, just an illustrative example)
Here are 15 changes we made, which is a subset of roughly a hundred: https://formation.dev/blog/year-in-review-2023-at-formation/
Obviously we're not a bootcamp and I'm not comparing apples to apples but just giving some examples of things people need that changed in 2023.
Codesmith's take is that they didn't change because they are the best and the world is changing because non tech companies are now hiring engineers and paying them a little less but close to what they used to.
They are making a narrative that fits the outcomes instead of making changes to fit the market. The types of companies hiring haven't changed whatsoever and the companies hiring engineers haven't changed.
Again, this sounds critical and insulting, but it's meant feedback. Most other bootcamp leaders just talk to me and I give my opinions privately, so maybe it's a weird way to give feedback, but people tell m…
It shows 40% were above 120K, which seems about right. That's a very very large drop. The median was $115K according to this and this data is legit and up to date and it was $127,500 on their last CIRR report.
Regardless of the context around the numbers and cautions one should have, these are very larger drops in salaries.
Codesmith's CEO has attributed it to people taking lower offers sooner instead of waiting for a better one and that the world is changing - more types of companies are hiring engineers.
I attribute it to people taking less strong jobs are less tech-focused companies and that the world isn't changing.
But the jobs are clearly still very good compared to most bootcamps.
\+1, yeah definitely agree it's good advice to push grads to follow the advice
I don't have the full context on this presentation, but I do think Codesmith can do more though than use data to convince people to do the same old same old because what worked in <= 2021, doesn't work the same now, and alumni that talk to me don't think Codesmith is doing anything to address that. They've added 2-3 career support engineers, but a number of people feel like Codesmith is telling them everything is fine it's just taking longer to find jobs.
But with all of this new data they share to convince people of this, they haven't given any placement rates to compare and people aren't happy so I'm giving that feedback :D
They go over it in public talks but its:
1. apply
2. send email/cold outreach to engineering leader (referencing blog posts or showing that you put in the work and it's not a random email you send everyone)
3. send double down email if no response from 2.
4. send final follow up email if no response from 3.
With more direction on what to say in each step. It's basically a sales funnel to sell yourself and follows like cold outreach sales model.
Yeah I'm familiar with the Codesmith style 4 step application, with the double down and follow up, etc.. on the receiving side too haha.
I meant that I'm curious what people say and if how they portray experience in that process.
But yeah if you are using your own trackers, like sheets and notion trackers that Codesmith has access to, but it's enforced or standardized then they have no idea how successful Codesmith-style applications are.
It's entirely possible that people just log those more often because they put a lot of effort in them and they need to stay organized throughout the process. Whereas with quick applies, it's so easy that people might not be as diligent with recording them.
I'm giving direct insight though - if people are not required, they won't record all their job applications. Some bootcamps have people required to send in proof of applications to maintained job…
I have a ton of questions about this because I've seen similar numbers before:
1. What tools does Codesmith track to know conversion rates? Do they have a central tool that you have to log all applications in and what type of application it was? I work at a job hunting and interview prep platform and I know for a fact that people don't love logging all of their applications and tend to start logging them after the interviews start rolling in, so it could appear that conversions are higher but it's a lack of information. We have a completely custom in house built centralized platform for this and it's still hard! So I'm curious how people log the applications and how this data is collected.
2. This is really granular data, so what are the placement rates for people, I'm assuming they shared this if they shared that detailed data? Median time to offer is useful for one aspect, but if 100%…
The part time is the same but stretched out over longer time and at a slower pace. It's broken into 3 phases instead of 2.
The workshops tend to be a bit higher quality than the actual teaching but similar style.
The instructors at Codemsith almost all have only worked at Codesmith and the content and lectures are fairly rigid. So they have very good consistency as a result which is very predictable.
The downsides are they are limited by lack of experience and often can't give more context on why things are the way they are. So you hear "trust the system" a lot and "Codemsith put a lot of thought into this and know what they are doing" versus like confident answers.
Not a bash on the people's potential and abilities just lack of experience.
Sure.
So I'm talking about the full time immersive that is 13 weeks.
It's split between the junior portion and the senior portion.
There are about 4-5 weeks of classroom style units. You spend a day or two on a topic and then do some homework / practice, then get the approach from the instructor the next day, then move on to the next topic. There are weekly tests and if you don't do well you get extra 1-1 help from a senior or an instructor. Once you pass an assessment you are done the core materials and become a senior.
After that you start doing projects and there are 4 projects you do, which I won't go into more detail on right now, but 3 of them are a bit smaller and end up being listed as "open source" work on your resume. The biggest one is the OSP which most people feature as standalone experience on their resume and takes about 3 to 4 weeks.
During the project phase there ar…
Thanks, a lot of people see Formation as something Codesmith grads would do in their 2nd, 3rd, etc... transitions if they are leveling up from a solid SWE job to a top tier SWE job and in a lot of ways it could be a great and supportive partnership where we complement each other... imagine that!
For example, Formation Fellows who want to work on projects could help make OSPs better and act as mentors to Codesmith residents. We could help Codesmith with DS&A and SD - two areas they are extremely weak at for top tier companies (but are one of the best at for a zero to 1 bootcamp). We could at a minimum collaborate on public content and sessions.
But for some reason, staff/former staff members report to me that Codesmith's leaders (particularly Eric K and occasionally Will) firmly believe that I'm trying to take down Codesmith and get people to go to Formation and that I'm personally sip…
Definitely good questions. We stand by what we do but we also don't do everything and I fully support making sure you know what we do and know it's a good decision for you.
Overall I would say we are good for half of what you mentioned.
The SD and technical behavioral practice the explanation part. Technical behavioral is about talking about your past work in the best way possible. SD is about connecting your big scale experience with more general concepts and applying those as tools to discussing general systems problems.
Anyone can read a solid systems design book for general materials and we're focused on actually applying the tools and communicating well in group and interview settings (and getting feedback) so you can successfully pass system design interviews.
We don't do any hands on projects or capstone projects and we don't do anything that builds your resume. It's somethin…
We don't cover CICD or DevOps and we also don't have mentors I would say who could do mocks overing those topics specifically. We have some mentors which an do iOS and Android mocks, so while we don't cover those skills either day to day, there's at least some practice available.
There's no fixed curriculum and you'll do different things at different paces. But the overall areas we cover are:
1. CS fundamentals/DS&A, up to all the topics needed for the hardest interviews (including DP, advanced graphs). How much you do will vary by your goals but you can go all the way up to the hardest of the hard.
2. System design. This is full stack system design preparing for top tier company system design interviews.
3. Technical Behavioral. Preparing your resume, pitch and practice hiring manager interview and things like the Amazon Bar Raiser
4. Minor areas: frontend (practice and mocks), softwar…
Hi, I'm happy to answer questions and always like to hear what others have to think. I'll list just a couple of shorter comments to help answer, but feel free to me, I'm very open with people about if I think Formation is a good option to consider or not, and ultimately you have to decide.
1. It sounds like you are somewhat familiar with it at least, but just to clarify that we're not a bootcamp and have no fixed curriculum, lectures, classes, lessons, etc... We are a practice, benchmarking, mentorship, job hunting and mock interview platform. You do practice by yourself in in small mentor-led group sessions, you get feedback in those sessions and through benchmarkings, and you trust us to move you through topics and skill areas at whatever pace you go at, and you trust us to tell you when you are at the top company bar. So you are paying to reliably get your skills (from DS&A to System…
I can answer this very transparently, apologies it might be long or over detailed, but trying to explain clearly and openly.
Originally we worked with Leif to administer "classic" ISAs, which is something like, don't pay anything until you get a new job, then pay X% a month for Y months, capped at Z dollars, e.g. 10% per month for 15 months, targeting 15% of one year's base salary. These also had caps so if you make over $165K base salary, you won't pay more than the cap. If you didn't make $65K or more then your payments are paused until you do, or until a year passes in which case the contract is cancelled.
There's a lot of good things about classic ISAs as they really help people pay who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford, or be approved for an upfront cost or a loan.
The flip side is that, as I've said many times, the job market was particularly rough in 2023. Since we work with…
Tangent: this is timely, but you should apply to this if eligible: [https://formation.dev/partners/netflix](https://formation.dev/partners/netflix) (disclosure, co-founder of Formation), but you should not apply to Formation otherwise if you are still in school - this is a special program for Netflix.
The best thing you can do is to get an internship this summer. If you can't get an internship, then volunteer for Hack4LA or for a professor. If you can't volunteer, make a "startup" and build that all summer super disciplined and try to find others doing that to join with, like Coding for Callie, 100Devs community, etc....
Codesmith is more for people who are almost job ready to brand and market themselves for the job hunt, it's not really a strong learning experience itself in my opinion (I can go into why, but it's 6 weeks of curriculum, almost all instructors went to Codesmith itself…
Now that it's been a day, you can see that cglee is super right - and the voting reflects the distribution of conversation in this sub.
This is also the reason why you see me talking about Codesmith so much IN THIS SUB (and I never talk about it in any other subs) because it just reflects the nature of the conversation.
Haha, so Formation isn't a bootcamp or an option to consider instead of a bootcamp and doing so would be a huge mistake. Formation is an interview prep and mentorship platform that doesn't teach any specific skills and instead is about practice - benchmarking - feedback - and mock interviews/job hunt support.
From my best estimates, there are somewhere between 5 and 10% (i.e. 2 to 3 people per Codesmith cohort out of 30+) that might BARELY be candidates for Formation - and only if they understand what Formation is and it's genuinely the right move for them.
In this market that has become rarer and rarer and it might even be almost 0 overlap because the number of people with under 1 year of experience we accept now I can count on one hand, and the people spend a ton of time talking to our team and determining that Formation is indeed the objectively right fit.
\---------
# RE: "CODEMI…
I mean I work with alumni who went to all of them so I have some good insight across the board.
I disproportionately hear about Codesmith because it's the biggest anomaly of them all that just has a very unique ecosystem around it. But maybe given the results of this poll so far that helps explain why I get such polarizing information haha.
📌 Netflix x Formation Program is back for 2026 grads in the USA aiming to do SWE internships at Netflix in summer 2025. It's a free part time program over the summer (paid for by Netflix) and the goal is land an internship at Netflix! Applications close Feb 16th.
Hi all sharing this with the community if you haven't seen it already! This is a competitive program to train all summer to get ready for Netflix internship interviews in the fall, and hopefully land a coveted Netflix internship for 2025!
See the details here on LinkedIn and let me know if you have questions: [https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7160354895420604416](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7160354895420604416)
From the announcement:
>[Formation](https://www.linkedin.com/company/formation-dev/) and [Netflix](https://www.linkedin.com/company/netflix/) are joining forces to help un…
Codesmith grads don't list on LI, read this why: [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis\_of\_52\_most\_recent\_codesmith\_offers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/)
What you can do instead is go through the OS Labs projects (or watch for their launches in the CSX Slack) and then message the people from there. Everything lists the project members and their LinkedIns there or on the project websites: [https://github.com/oslabs-beta/](https://github.com/oslabs-beta/)
I find a lot of polarization from graduates I chat with. Some good advice for anyone you talk to about any bootcamp is to dig into the HOW and not just the superficial.
There was a Codesmith grad last week that wrote a comment 'I graduated and it changed my life'... that was it, and it got 40 upvoted in a day on a 2 month old dead post that 3 upvotes.
That's fantastic, and it has changed hundreds of people's live, over a thousand! But HOW did it change them is key because what worked for them might not work for you too and you have to get into the details.
1. What kind of background did they have before?
2. Can you see their resume that finally worked?
3. How long have they kept their job for and how did Codesmith prepare them for the job and what do they wish Codesmith had prepared them for? (Codesmith says every single info session I've seen that 100% of grads get promotions within…
Codesmith has posted twice in their CSX that someone is posting negative comment in multiple channels, anonymously. I have no idea what the comments entail but a number of people have shared different side conversations around this that I won’t get into.
We’re launching a FAANG partnership publicly and I haven’t been paying much attention but asked about my name being thrown around to see why.
Yeah I know when Formation started, Outco was a big player, along with Pathrise and IK, but a lot of benefited from the tailwinds of the market.
In the toughest market, we had a notable drop in top tier placements (down to about 50% of placements from 70%ish) and first year TC increases dropped to 80K on average. I think our numbers still justify the cost of the program for us, but we can't change the market, I wish we could, but we're way too small!
But that said, I can see how it's harder for the teams to say focused and motivated. Employees might leave or do new things, or there might be layoffs. I know a couple of people that did Outco that came to my company later on and they felt like it didn't have the heart in it that they expected from the past (completely anecdotal personal reflection, ask people for yourself).
It's why every program is different. Like me and my partner have…
Codesmith's CEO explicitly said publicly several times that Codesmith's application to offer rate is 1 offer for every 50 Codesmith style applications. And he said the main factor in people not getting jobs is that it's hard to do these kind of applications (that involve personal messaging and a ton of reach out). He presents this as a funnel from application to recruiter screen to technical interview to offer and if you do the math it implies 1 offer for every 50 applications.
Do you agree or disagree with that?
I know Codesmith is soliciting feedback from students over the past few days because of a kerfuffle of some kind that people have told me about but I don't know all the details of. So if you disagree it would be good to tell him that.
I think the 12 month placement might be higher than 60% but we'll see. We know placements have been a lot slower, but it's hard to tell whose getting the jobs.
If I had more time or cared about this more I repeat my 52 person audit and cross reference their cohorts from some other data. Part of the reason the average time on OSPs was 12 months was becasue people tended to be job hunting longer and just had like June 2022 - present, listed for their OSP. But when you do all the accounting I don't have a strong sense of where this lands but I highly suspect 6 month placements rates of 50 to 60% are reasonable.
My nightmare that everyone should prepare for is if CIRR comes out and Codesmith has a 12 month placement of 78% or something, and touts that as not much different than the H1 2022 SIX MONTH rate of 83% (or whatever it is close to that) then I think that would be bad.
Yeah I totally get where you are coming from and we can and want to share more.
The hesitation is that people truly do have unique journeys at Formation. They do entirely different things at different paces and it's something noted by many people who go through, and it also makes it hard to review as no one else will have the experience you did again. You can go on leave and there is no expected timing. Some people have really demanding jobs already and need to ramp up and down completely unexpectedly... this is surprisingly common and I don't think I've ever seen a Fellow who hasn't adjusted their involvement because of unexpected things.
So we have to be super careful that people don't get misled by making assumptions about their experience or their self assessment of their skills or how fast they think they can do stuff, and we really want to give more personalized data and estimate…
No one has a right to any data, but they have a right to say CIRR's data is outdated, sorry if that wasn't clear.
I don't think I'm pedantic about why we don't report CIRR results or other reporting standards, I'll try to explain again very bluntly and directly.
Formation is a mentorship and benchmarking platform and not a program or school so we don't publish CIRR-like outcomes data. We really want to publish more data but when we sit down and look at it, it's just almost impossible.
We had two $500K+ seniors Meta offers in the past three weeks - for people with a many years of experience and we recently had someone with a few months of experience get a role paying much less at a startup that they are thrilled with.
It's super meaningless to publish CIRR-like data that doesn't take background into consideration.
Sounds easy, publish data by experience level right? Now because we wo…
I don't think Tech Elevator is a particpate anymore. They merged operations with Galvanize (which has their own reporting system) and have let go of a number of long time staff. It's still running great and a solid option, especially if you are in their in-person cities, but I doubt they will participate in CIRR anymore.
CodeUp shutdown so they are probably no longer a participant either.
So from the CIRR website that leaves:
Turing - an accredited school
Code Platoon - a school focusing on veterans
Hacktiv8 - a bootcamp in Indonesia
Codesmith - a full stack immersive bootcamp in the USA
Launch Academy - a full stack immersive focusing on Boston
These are so different it doesn't seem useful really
I highly encourage schools to make their own standards, have them vetted and audited and then publish their own data on their own time. Using CIRR for branding doesn't seem to have the…
The latest CIRR reports were for graduates from Jan 2022 to June 2022.
Jan is over 2 years ago, and June is 1 year 8 months, which rounds to 2 years too.
So if someone graduates now 2024, that would be like receiving data about them in 2026.
Codesmith for example said they were ready to publish their old format H2 2022 CIRR report and (before the change in specification) said to my recollection that it was coming out 'any day' - which it never did after CIRR changed the specification. So the data is there and wasn't' released and I think people have a right to claim that published CIRR data is out of date for that reason alone.
CIRR essentially collapsed and one of the board members took over and is trying to reboot CIRR.
I have no idea why all the historical data is gone but it's expected for CIRR results from 2022 to come out in February (i.e. this month).
The new results will look at a 12 month placement window in addition to 3 and 6 months, which is the cause for the delay.
The new director of CIRR is super reasonable but I disagree with almost all of this and I get the feeling like CIRR collapsed and lose it's members and the director has great intentions of rebooting it, but it's going to take a lot of time.
That said, the new Director just started a full time job and it's questionable how much time and effort their going to spend on CIRR.
Anyways, **there is absolutely no reason why schools didn't publish 6 month 2022 CIRR data and then re-publish the 12 month data under the new standard.**
At the…
2 month old OP post that went completely inactive.... comment from 1 day ago gets 28 upvotes almost instantly 🤔
Whether Codesmith is good or not, this is why people think Codesmith is manipulating discussion and asking people to comment about them.
People read this as an ad and it becomes super polarizing.
I just haven't worked with a lot of people who have done Le Wagon and don't have detailed thoughts or information to surface unfortunately :(
Just a note to be clear, I think it's fair to consider each program differently. Codesmith is Codesmith, and Le Wagon is Le Wagon. And I don't want to make any connections or accusations of either party.