Hi, it highly depends on your specific experience. Having a gap can be fine if you had many years of experience prior. If you left and did a bootcamp and that's why you have a gap, then I would consider putting it under education.
Honestly, it's incredibly hard and there's only so much you can do. Which is why when I surveilled Codesmith grads, like 80, 90% of people were significantly exaggerating or flat out lying. It's an ends justify the means argument that if they can do well on the job, it's wrong for them to be disqualified due to lack of experience, so fudging it a bit is fine.
I know a lot of people that choose to exaggerate as a result as well. I think there are major problems by doing that, BUT I'm more centrist on the issue.
What I'm extremely against is Codesmith not being transparent about how things are so that you can make a grown up choice. Instead it's more of a br…
Yeah + 1, and that's why I prefaced my notes - don't fall for marketing that this will change your life and get you a six figure job. You MIGHT, but a lot of that will depend on YOU. And if you are are the right person, this might help you get there in a way nothing else can. But for 99% of the readers, that's not you, and that's ok.
Codesmith launched cohort 2 of the Future Code NYC program (free bootcamp for NYC residents who make un $50K and have zero coding experience)
SOURCE: [https://www.become-irreplaceable.dev/future-code](https://www.become-irreplaceable.dev/future-code)
NOTE!: This is not an endorsement of Codesmith - I've been (and still am) very critical of Codesmith for: 1. lack of transparency around outcomes (in that they are extremely defensive and reactive about their declining outcomes, instead of being transparent and attracting the right people), 2: misleading grads with zero experience that they are senior engineers and that their 4 week long project is so hard it makes them a mid-level engineer, 3: when looking at LinkedIns of graduates the vast majority represent their 4 week projects as 11 months+ of 'work experience' and my opinion is that this harms the industry, and is responsible for peo…
When I spot check these people, I see their OSP looking like over 1 year of work experience on their LinkedIns because they have been job hunting so long and I think this is the dirty secret people don't like talking about a lot. People who get their jobs this way don't want anyone to know out of potentially losing that job, and Codesmith always downplays these things as not relevant - instead telling you how your capacities are strong and mid-level/senior so your resume is fine as long as it demonstrates that. Companies aren't falling for it anymore for 3-4 months projects but when people have 1-2 years on there I think some are still getting through (even though it's fewer than before).
Protip: when you see placements - look at their LinkedIn and see what they say there. I often see people celebrate their "first engineering job!" but their LinkedIn says like 4 years Self-employed soft…
Thanks for sharing and this is consistent with what I hear from people (plus some ghoster placements you don't see)
Rest assured if their CIRR 2023 numbers released in March look suspicious I will loudly call it out publicly. People need to know how things are right now and Codesmith is extremely non transparent about it, and in fact the opposite - makes it sound like everything is fine and everyone is getting senior jobs.
If they go to someone's LinkedIn and the job has a start start, then they can count that as a placement.
Codesmith's auditor called LinkedIn the "gospel"... which makes me want to flip a table because many Codesmith grads have all kinds of embellished "jobs" listed.
The people I know there tell me there are hardly any placements anymore and it's becoming a ghost town.
Is Codesmith acknowledging this and talking about it?
No, they double down on one off edge case placements from years ago to try to make an illusion that everyone is getting mid level and senior jobs.
The more I dig, the more I see it's an illusion... fake accounts promoting AMAs, etc...
There are incredible alumni who went to Codesmith and they deserve credit for that. But it's like not at all the normal outcome right now and this charade has to end.
I'm waiting with popcorn to see Codesmith's CIRR 2023 outcomes in Feb/March 2025, specifically some of those fields like "did not respond" (but were included because of LinkedIn verification).
It will be a humbling experience for them to face reality instead of trying to convince everyone water isn't wet but water is gold.
I don't think they advertise themselves as "impartial", they are a not a charity but a 'non profit business league' which is AKA a lobbying group promoting the interests of an industry = bootcamps.
I don't think anything about them is impartial... the spec was updated by a former head of marketing at Codesmith lol.
In terms of general advice, if you have a current job, I would try to contribute some general code, or write some code to build software tools that help you do your job - ideally in the main codebase using the main stack - and getting code review from SWEs. If you do that already then you have an even better shot at transitioning.
Maybe obvious, but do you have the option at your startup to talk to them about transitioning and maybe doing it there over time too and not switching companies?
Hi, I'm a co-founder of Formation and can give my opinions from what I've seen.
Your case is borderline and it depends on your Data Engineer experience and your goals. If one of your goals is to be a Data Engineer at Netflix or Meta (where it's a distinct job but very SWE-adjacent/related and compensated the same) and then convert internally at those companies, then I would say MAYBE. We have a handful of people in that bucket and we can help, but we don't do any data-specific interview prep. We have a handful of mentors who are Staff+ Data Engineers at FAANG but we don't have any practice materials for it.
If you strictly want to be a backend engineer, then I have more questions. If you are already getting INTERVIEWS at some solid tech companies on your own and need a boost or help preparing for the interviews then 100% yes.
If you are struggling to get interviews then I would recomm…
CIRR 2025 Standards out - does not close loopholes to force transparency, only change is one that extends the list of reasons to exclude people from the data and increase placement rates on paper - I don't think anyone cares anymore though :(
CIRR Standards for 2025 are out [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zuNf-58OcxVyY1KnTxnfqhfftiNexb6S/view?usp=drive\_link](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zuNf-58OcxVyY1KnTxnfqhfftiNexb6S/view?usp=drive_link)
In a year where bootcamps are disappearing left right and center and pivoting to AI programs and abandoning SWEs, I would have wanted CIRR to tighten up a number of the loopholes in their standard that schools get to exploit.
Here is a list of issues I pointed out last year: [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1bug0lv/linebyline\_critique\_of\_cirr\_standard\_document/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1bug0lv/li…
Hi, we work with people with salaries in that range yeah. If you are making over $200K a year, at a top tier tech, you have to look at performance bonuses and stock as well. For example the typical mid level Meta engineer offer is around $330K right now but the base is like $185K and the rest is stock and bonuses At the senior level, the bases are into the $200Ks and TC around $450 to $500K.
We don't guarantee your outcome or any specific base salary but the performance based pricing is $5K upfront and the rest is $0 to $15K extra depending on the INCREASE in BASE salary so some people with high bases coming in choose that option because they don't expect to increase their salary enough to hit the $10K tier and if they do then they made so much money they'll happily pay more.
These numbers are based on bigger cities and many top companies require you to move right now. If you get a re…
I gave the advice somewhere else but staying at one company and showing numerous promotions is a simple way to pass the 20 second resume reviews.
Interview performance, I use a personal trainer analogy. You are asking how to get into shape. You can get a cheap gym membership and do it yourself (Neetcode or Algo Expert membership), you can get a personal trainer (1-1 mentor), you can join a premium gym like Equinox that has classes and trainers and a lot of options but is expensive (Formation), you can learn on your own through books and youtube videos about how to get into shape (which works if you have discipline but might take a lot longer)
You can pay month to month like a gym membership (this is typically senior engineers who have interviews lined up already and a short timeframe as it's very costly if you did month to month for a long time) or a $5K upfront and variable fee based on how much you increase your base salary from your last job when placed ($0 to $15K extra).
We haven't taken fresh bootcamp grads with no experience since 2023 and earlier (with a a single digit handful of except cases).
I really wish I wasn't doom and gloom but we (not just me but my entire team) have robust networks, and it's insanely hard for bootcamp grads right now.
So it's good for Formation because bootcamp grads have to take whatever job they can get right now, and then in a few years they have various gaps that we are perfect to help fill in gaps they need for really great tech job they wanted but couldn't get initially.
Not everyo…
If you have 2 years or more of legit SWE work experience on your resume then you are in good shape to consider Formation. We can't change your experience, so if you have the experience then we help you 1) practice the computer science fundamentals all hyper-focused on getting you to pass top tier technical interviews and on, 2) figuring out what parts of your experience are most impressive to top tier tech and practicing framing those with top tier engineers or hiring managers (both technically and behavioral)
I've heard this narrative at Codesmith a few times: traditionally non tech companies need to become tech companies so they are hiring tons of engineers.
1. These companies are not hiring the best of the best (because their business doesn't have high enough margins to pay what FAANG pays), so if you want to be a best of the best engineering, you need to go to a top company and learn from the best. Even if there are more jobs here, you might be slowing down your career by taking them, especially if you are ambitious.
2. A lot of these non-tech companies outsource to top companies by buying their products and integrating them. They want to buy the best software from DataBricks because they can't remotely hire the same talent as DataBricks to build similar software in house. They also outsource more development to contracting firms abroad. So the growth in need for programming doesn't nece…
If you have a degree, internships is #1. If you didn't do any internships a bootcamp might be able to help, but you would be better off just making a group of 5 people and making a startup on your own and taking it as far as you can. Codesmith is a bootcamp that has like 7 weeks of lectures and the rest is projects with others, and you are paying $22K to go there... you could just find the equally talented people in the Slack who are admitted to Codesmith, and leave and do a startup with them for 4 months, put it in your resume, etc... and put the $100K total combined tuition cost towards founding the startup, ads, cloud infra etc...
If you give me a group of 20 people who are paying $22K, I'll take their $500K and run a company for them that they own 1/20th of and they will be much better off.
If I disregard AI then I would say that nothing at all would change and it's the new normal. And it's likely the new normal from "traditional SWE" roles.
I think schools like Launch School that are very small and take a very long time to get into will produce exceptions to the norm and that's about it.
I'm more optimistic in AI creating a ton of new jobs that are tech-adjacent but not tech jobs. And that people will need to transition from their non-tech job into these roles. E.g. accountant -> AI enabled accountant. Kind of like how accountants BEFORE Microsoft Excel had to learn Excel and now it's just a given. A ton of accountants will have to learn AI-enabled tools and it will be a given.
Now SWE bootcamps might be done and over with, but maybe AI bootcamps that **VERY CLEARLY IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AS TRAINING YOU FOR ADJACENT JOBS AND NOT SWE JOBS** might be able to help people ge…
This is somewhat similar to what Codesmith (their competitor for "top bootcamp") does as well, called the "Where are they now report".
I don't see the complete methodology, but these kinds of reports can be extremely bias. I haven't seen them audit and track the number of people who did NOT reply, so all the people who failed out, gave up, changed jobs don't reply and they take an average of people who DID reply.
Just like any other reports, like CIRR, just because it looks legit it doesn't mean you shouldn't think critically and try to understand the words being used. Just like CIRR was created as a marketing group for bootcamps to promote bootcamps, and Course Report gets paid by bootcamps to send people to them (and wouldn't exist without bootcamps), thinking critically is extremely important in understanding the way things are.
Things to watch out for:
1. Not showing how many pe…