This person has been copy pasting this review on allo f the negative Codesmith posts from the past year. It's suspicious behavior.
Codesmith's leadership were saying earlier this week in a public info session call that they had 60 placements in the past month and it doesn't check out with the raw data some people inside Codesmith sent me who were upset that the leaders said this.
I put a pause since then on my recommendation of going there until I can sort it out (and it's not something I'm urgently working on because I'm busy with real things to do)
People are definitely getting placed still but there are some unknowns.
I also have a list of all the recent placements to go through in detail because I spot checked some with a long time industry person who doesn't know what Codesmith was and the person though their LinkedIns were all complete lies (e.g. 8 months of Software Engineer e…
And other people are concerned about Codesmith 'finding them and suing them' (almost a direct quote from someone but changed to protect the person) and don't even post at all.
For example the recent negative post about Codesmith was deleted, and another recent one deleted their account entirely, two other people contacted me who feel like they were "paid off" (both direct quotes in their words, not mine) after complaining about various things at Codesmith (one internally, one on Reddit who they found).
Clearly this is not healthy in both directions but clearly there are reasons why it is this way that haven't been untangled yet and no other bootcamp has this kind of pattern of extreme polarization.
Like I said, I have a day job (which has nothing to do with this situation, but I accept whatever people send me so keep it coming and I'll keep reporting what checks out and that I can ano…
Yeah I do often disclose and hear you on that. I comment all the time in this sub and people tend to know me but that's on me to keep explaining.
The membership is not lifetime, it's unlimited access to Formation until you get a job. Many people pay again again for their next job hunt.
If you have 4 years or more of SWE experience that is the average increased first year total compensation reported.
The methodology is explained in great detail but this is a new calculator that people asked for to understand the long term value of Formation.
Our outcomes are indeed very very strong but I think the weakness is maybe the time it takes because it takes about 6 months of part time mentorship to get there and its no small commitment, you have to be ready and all In.
It really depends on you and your timeframe. If you have a longer timeframe, I would consider first self teaching, then doing a more intense self-paced online program/course, and then doing open source contributions or starting a company/building a product from scratch. You can put that 20K into hiring some freelancers and registering an LLC and building something for real.
There is simply no program that will get you there.
There's a saying going around that if you can get accepted by Codesmith on the first interview, run for the hills and save your $20K because that means you are pretty much ready to go and just need a little connecting of the dots to get there.
Happy to chat more if you want to share more personal background for more specific advice, it's hard to generalize.
If you think that is useful then you should definitely check out the above more. The career support engineers at Codemsith are typically Fellows/peers you would have at Formation (at least one I know of has been a Fellow actually) and the mentors are more knowledgeable. For example someone got a Senior E5 Meta offer this week and chatted the next day with a recruiter with 30 years of FAANG level recruiter experience.
But depending on your situation that might not be the support you are looking for and need. I highly encourage anyone to make use of the Codesmith scholarship and get free dedicated help, that's awesome!
I'm extremely bias because I'm the co-founder of one of these, but based on everything you should look into career accelerator/interview prep programs and see if you think they would be worth it for helping out. I'm fairly confident this type of thing would help, but they are all expensive and it's a personal decision if you think they are worth the cost for you.
Formation.dev, Pathrise, Interview Kickstart are the three biggest ones left standing right now. They are generally a bit cheaper than bootcamps but roughly the same price but solely focused on all the areas: brushing up on CS concepts, strategizing for the interviews, legit mock interviews, building robust problem solving skills, system design etc...
I can go into more about all these if interested, but first just check them out and see if they would help you or not.
If you are answering the check in emails and saying you didn't get a job then they won't count it. If you entirely ghost then they will try to find you and have any friends you had on staff text you to see how life is going and try to get info.
CIRR has two fields to try to counter this:
1. Salary unavailable (so if they count it as a placement because of LI and you ghosted them it would show up in this field)
2. Job placed out of field. The definition is if the skills you learned are needed on the job or not. Codesmith teaches 5 things and only 1 is programming skills, the rest are soft skills, so not sure how they interpret that rule.
Want to know something crazy but Codemsith often rejects people on their first try even if they are qualified so they can prove how much they want to go to Codesmith. If you really want to go, you'll fight to get in.
So that said, yeah if you get in your first try, you have no hope in a bootcamp and run for the hills.
Also a +1000 for how often I get similar messages privately to your analysis.... They have marketing efforts to brand it as the solution for anyone great to get a 130K salary but it's really no where near that level of program, it as a bootcamp, it's fantastic.
I wish Codesmith would realize this. Several staff members call their leaders delusional and have left or are leaving shortly but haven't told them yet. Instead of being so delusional that you are creating mid level and senior engineers in 13 weeks, be honest with yourself and be honest with residents, everyone will be better off... go back to why you are doing this to begin with..m
i.e. this https://vimeo.com/42713491
Hi! Can you comment on your perception of Codesmith before and after joining? If you could share some things you perceived before starting that were as expected and not as expected that would be super helpful based on the questions people ask me daily.
I'm very much on top of Codemsith on here because it attracts both the right people and the wrong people and I want to make sure everyone ends up at the right place for them and gets past marketing.
I'm way more middle road than I come across here. People can do whatever they want, and some people are in circumstances where they stretch the truth for personal reasons consciously.
But people who come here are are like "$150K, Codesmith, mic drop" is just very car-saleperson-y that makes people want to go there for the wrong reasons.
If you are super ambitious - as many Codesmith students are there might be a number of pathways that could work better than Codesmith and judging the $$$ alone isn't ideal and in their outcomes advisor throws around big offer numbers like candy - "I was talking on the phone to someone this morning and she had a 150 and we got a 10 signing bonus" - not the lack of use of the "K" or "thousands"
Yeah I agree Codesmith is still one of the best bootcamps, they just bill themselves as an elite grad school and are unabashedly talking about how good they are in all the talks I see and I see graduates carry forward that vibe... when on paper they are doing like a "good bootcamp" education and not anywhere close to something billing itself as an way better.
For gosh sakes, their contract is a Google Form equivalent that doesn't meet basic requirements of a contract, it's a one way form.
If you have paperwork showing what your IP relationship is with OS Labs then I would back off on that. I hadn't seen it in the contracts sent to me by people asking about things in them.
Correct, Formation is not ideal for bootcamp grads who can't get jobs right now. We have people who joined the hot market with no experience and we stand by our unconditional support until they get a job but it's a rough market and we don't do miracles . We take a very very small number of people who do it with no experience while job hunting because they don't care about the cost and want structure instead of just job hunting alone but they enter with reasonable expectations.
So you can consider it but I would strongly recommend getting a job first and coming back in the future when you are ready to level up.
Yeah but do you sign any paperwork that you are part of OSLabs or that you are admitted to it?
I volunteered for a number of charities and you always have to sign paperwork.
Otherwise your IP contributions are ambiguous. If you aren't just committing open source code but are a part of OSLabs, then your contributions to the projects they own (regardless of open source or not, they own them) need clear IP ownership.
If they aren't educating you on how open source really works, then you arent being prepared to use open source properly on the job either. I learned all this almost immediately st Facebook and many friends learn about it too at their companies. If you are going to be a mid-level or senior engineer and you aren't learning this stuff, that is a major hole.
Codemsith can't have it bofh ways. If they want to use open source to accelerate people then do right... otherwise it's a…
This is why I so strongly eco this loud and clear no matter who pushes back or no matter how much Codesmith leadership badmouths me to their staff to try to turn them against me.... you know what their response to my recent wave of calling this out: 'Codesmith is the best and the best always attracts haters'.
No... systematically supporting lying and looking the other way attracts haters.
Thanks, I largely agree with your assessment too and it's why I try so hard to help the right people go there. People who go just because of the outcomes won't do well.without those other traits and attitude.
RE: OSP, it's a straight up lie that you worked for 3 months on the OSP and Phil saying that is actual fraud if he said that he does that. I understand that he thinks all of the time at Codesmith goes into that OSP but residents are also listing all of their other projects on their resume too, and their tech talks, and their "publications" (I e. medium post about the OSP) and that is all double or triple counted if you are getting 3 months credit for the OSP.
That said, they will also verify time spent after Codesmith. I found someone who removed a word from the README file 4 months later and they claimed 7 or 8 months in their LinkedIn.
I know several alumni who are floating 1 t…
This post is sadly something I hear often right now and is why I'm not happy about CIRR changing their metric from 6 months placements to 12 months placements.
So much happens in that year of job hunting that it's largely irrelevant what the bootcamp did. The bootcamp could do nothing and then you could spend NINE MONTHS studying DS&A and get a job and the bootcamp gets credit.
Anyways, sorry to hear about this.
I know it's doom and gloom but it's also true that the market is just overloaded for entry level and the only consistent path I'm seeing is if you are a new grad from a top school, all other placements are one off. Sorry and Codesmith grads that lie about their experience are also getting placed.
I also monitor Codesmith offers and one interesting thing going on here, is there are a number of people being placed who have been job hunting for almost a year now.
They still list their OSP as X - present, so the longer it takes them to get a job, the more fake work experience it looks like they have. This is the dirty secret in many of the struggling-graduate Codesmith resumes I see (many people send me resumes for reviews outside of my day job).
As /u/SlowestTriathlete said, they are trying to motivate graduates by showing recovering results.
The market is indeed doing better, but it's not doing better for people without any experience.
Congrats on doing well btw! It gets lost in my post but one thing Codesmith does very well is choose amazing peope to let in who really give it their all.
Yeah their lead instructor tells people no one looks at the projects.
I did and posted on Reddit about some many security issues like secrets checked in, sql injection, and no auth on a delete endpoint, and the response internally was people assuring themselves their code is at the mid level bar and that I was being an asshole.
Just by lying. For example
Software Engineer, Kronos 2022- present
People who do this don't even say they are lying! They say it's true just missing the months they were there and the last line of a 6 bullet point write up says, "product accelerated by OSLabs" and they think that is transparent disclosure that it was not paid..... but at the same time have this under experience placed right beside another section called "Open Source" with their personal projects which clearly makes that look like experience..m if it was open source why would it not be in the Open Source section?
So if the startup doesn't have scale and doesn't have process, a person can get by easier through sheer will compared to a FAANG. At FAANG, performance is calibrated and our performers are aggressively PIPed and fired. At a startup, lots of hustle might carry you, even if you are clearly operating at a lower level but adding value.
I actually hired a Codesmith grad as an entry level engineer (I think Codesmith called it mid-level in their stats, which was very clearly entry level but compensated against top tier benchmark) and this is the level all the Codesmith grads I work with are at immediately after Codesmith... should be going for entry level top tier jobs.
Many people tell me about how their outcomes advisor pushed people away from that roles and says they are grunteork roles that set your career back... but that's extremely inconsistent with what I've seen.... people who take m…
Yeah a bootcamp could be appropriate. Look into the top ones and see how they work and which approach is right for you.
I see a "Codesmith." comment and it's a top one or consider but look into how it works. Most people said things like "it changed my life" but don't explain how it works... it only works for certain people that will stretch the truth in their resumes (even most people here who say they went there and didn't do this often "stretched the truth")
If time is not an issue I would also look at Launch School. similarly it's a solid program but look into hired it works and see if that's good for you.
Also look at "career accelerators": Formation, Pathrise, Interview Kickstart. these are typically for people with SWE experience already so I probably would not recommend at all in this market, but you should look at them to compare "how it works" to how bootcamps work.
I mean at the end of the day it's very irrelevant to most people and it's you can call yourself whatever you want. There's a Codesmith grad who is a "Vice President Software Engineer" at a bank!!!
It comes into play on here, and I feel strongly about it, because you DO need to define your terms to compare apples to apples and apples to oranges.
Codesmith's overall point is that Codesmith thinks their grads are "better" (their outcomes advisor says "Codesmith is the best" a lot) than everyone else. There was a panel where the CEO sitting (in person) beside Hack Reactor and other CEOs and said straight up that Codesmith was better because it's grads get "mid level and senior roles". They want to emphasize that Codesmith is not a "bootcamp" per-se and if they used canonical terms, they might get compared to the other programs.
So I think that's reasonable in that comparison. But the down…
What role was this? Was it SDE I, SDE II, SDE III, or was it a tangential role? a contractor role, a frontend role, a solutions role?
Amazon's promotion cycle doesn't allow stuff like that so this would have to be some kind of special case signed off by a director or VP to correct for a hiring error.
The number of times I've seen this EVER for super legit reasons, I can count on one hand, and those people quickly became industry renowned engineers.
So even if this happened where someone went from SDE II to SDE III in 3 months it would be absurdly rare and not representative of any program.
I asked a couple of Senior Managers at Amazon and no one thinks this is possible on their teams, so it's definitely a very weird case.
Every statement like this that I've looked into has been some kind of caveat or weird case that was not as people believed it to be.
For example, the $400K Netf…
The biggest misconception that Codesmith teaches is that mid level and senior are based on 'how ambiguous and novel a problem you can solve on your own' and that's just like entirely made up by Codesmith leaders. Will keeps referring to some LinkedIn post from a Facebook engineer about this as the justification and it's just not true. I'm a former Facebook employee who was deeply involved in hiring, performance, and leveling and I'm telling you it's not true. There are dozens of "traits" senior engineers have that include being able to solve larger scope problems, but that's not the defining trait of a senior engineer.
Fair point, I shouldn't say "all" there, it's more of a "most" or "almost all"
The people I work with/talk to made it seem like it was a unofficial pipeline of alumni referring grads and helping them prep for the interviews and I wanted that to come across clearly.
It's certainly not easy and the people who get these jobs are very strong and well rounded, and great overall.
The main difference is I'm not a journalist and I don't want people getting sued. There's a whole set of ethics around journalism I'm not trained in so I take a cautious route and I think that has resulted in more people feeling very comfortable sending me things. I never reach out to anyone who works/worked there because this isn't my job to dig into, and all of this is inbound.
At the end of the day, everyone has biases and that's why I am non-anonymous, so people can easily get to know me and decide how they feel about my commentary. I'm not some kind of perfect robot (and even the robots have biases haha)!
I gladly accept feedback on my tone, balance and how I can be more useful to the community.
FWIW, PhD grads at Meta entered at the "mid level"/E4 and I think still do. assuming you did a number of legit internships or published research throughout.
It's hard to tell, but a large amount is in the interview process and asking THEM the right questions. But ultimately companies are companies and things change and there's a bit of luck involved.
It's much easier to decide between FAANG for example that have well known patterns and publicly communicate their cultures. Each FAANG is SOOOOO DIFFERENT, it's massively important to choose the right one if one were given that opportunity (which is obviously not common), but if you dont' have that opportunity, at least understanding the culture enough to know the areas you should focus on and the areas you'll be weak at.
For example, Meta values getting work done over overthinking things. So if you overthink things, you can try to change…
1. They do fire them, I do think most survive but I know peopoe fired too
2..There is a range here. Capital One hired like 50 Codesmith grads in the boom. Senior Associate is like below FAANG entry level and Senior Engineer is like FAANG entry level. They comp all cash so that Senior Associate pays like 140K ish total and that Senior Engineer 160K ish.
In some ways so many people going to Capital One messed up the stats because of the title inflation and all cash compensation. And the interview process that asks the same 4 questions for one of the interviews that all the Codemsith people shared and practiced with each other.
I also watch a lot of documentaries: highly recommend [https://www.netflix.com/title/81615919?source=35](https://www.netflix.com/title/81615919?source=35) on Netflix.
It's about two people that start a coaching company and eventually grow it super large by hiring all their students as coaches and leveling up to higher titles, and their status is largely based on recruiting new people and publicly spreading word of the organization.
It's really good!
I take a journalist approach of collecting information and trying to be objective. Just like journalists, everyone is biased, but I've built a reputation on here for being rational and look at things from multiple sides.
I would rather Codesmith replace most of their leaders and change, rather than burn it to the ground. If I wanted to do that I would be sharing way crazier things people have shared with me so I hope my commentary does come across balanced.
So there's two aspects to this, civil and criminal.
Civil, it would be more about a company suing an employee for lying and causing "damage" to the company. This is pretty rare, people just get fired for lying rather than sued. If Codesmith did something criminally wrong, there might be a case for students to sue Codesmith as well.
Criminally, there has to be some kind of bad intentions by individuals to intentionally deceive people for their person gain or in a way that harms others. So you would have to both prove that these actions harmed people or that individuals gained financially from it AND that individuals did this on purpose. If there is no evidence that someone intentionally said something like 'we need to fake these OSPs and figure out how to get people to lie on their resumes' then it would be really hard to prove criminally. Like It's possible the leaders genuinely believ…
That's what I say but they defend this to the core internally. The staff I've spoken too think it's part of the effort to build people's self confidence in overcoming imposter syndrome and if they kind dropped this narrative then people might not have the confidence to get those jobs anymore and if they don't have $125K CIRR numbers, people won't join anymore.
I'm very familiar with this topic and have seen the full spectrum as well as seen most of the data round this. I time box my answers and might edit this later with more details:
1. Short answer yes some people do,
2. Codesmith judges level based on both titles and salaries when they say "senior" so it's not a canonical "top tier level" senior bar. By Codesmith's bar it's about 15%
3. The people who get these jobs fall into three buckets
1. Non-SWE roles, but adjacent, e.g. "senior solutions engineer"
2. People who have experience already as SWE's or adjacent roles
3. People who fake it and lie about their experience to squeeze through at smaller companies, startups, and non-tech companies
4. The average ENTRY LEVEL FAANG engineer has a $150K base salary, so even though the outcomes are high at a median of $127K, these are clearly not top tier senior roles. Codesmith grads that…
- Most schools want people to move around and not stay at the same school for the whole thing
- Most PhD students do internships at top companies because industry has way more resources.
I was supposed to do my PhD and was offered a research job at Intel before I even started the program to do in conjunction with the program and cross publish research.
A number of papers have cross company/academic publication in the CS space
Feel free to DM me and I'll send you over the forms used for that, it's absolutely happening. I can't talk about what current employees said, but it was shared that they will confirm whatever you put in the form. So many people "keep working on their OSP" ;) ;) and put that on the forms and then get it confirmed. One person changed ONE word in a Readme file 7 months later and said they worked on it for an 11 month period.
I interviewed someone who said his "manager was Philip Troutman" and he was "selected to work on this by his acquaintance and didn't have to interview for the position" and that "he hasn't gotten any performance reviews yet" and that it was a "not a W2 full time relationship"
That's what you call not lying?
That's a Codesmith line and the lies continue to the interview.
The policy is to not proactively bring up that it's unpaid and only explain that if explicitly asked. I've interviewed a number of Codesmith people who dance around this and come across incompetent in the first 10 mins until the truth finally comes out and makes the previous 10 mins feel like lies.
So you practice and practice how to talk about the project to both: 1. not get caught in the first place while not saying it was paid work, and 2. if you do get called out, how to handle that smoothly to clarify instead of the interview falling apart.
Presumably the people I talk to need more help because I wouldn't talk to them otherwise, but they all said that's how Codesmith mock interviewers told them to do it.
So something a lot of people don't realize is that Open Source !== free/unpaid work. Look at this resume: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/feross](https://www.linkedin.com/in/feross)
People who contribute legit open source work often work at companies who pay them to do it, or they have some kind of grants/support to do it.
People who do one off contributions here or there, or on the side, do not list that as "work experience" and they do not list it for 4X longer time then they spent on it. So you lied on your resume and you might not even realize you did.
Amazon is the most gamable FAANG but you are doing it wrong by trying to game the interviews. My entire life now is teaching people how to be better engineers and helping them pass interviews by investing in becoming better engineers instead of investing in gamifying the interview.
I know all the Codesmith alums at Amazon and Capita…
\- Instructors (all but one) are former students -> Fellows -> hired as "Mentors" -> hired as "Instructor" -> hired as "Lead Instructor", and almost none have SWE industry experience
\- The instructors I know are overworked and told to let people do "hard learning" instead of helping them too much - but they love to help when they can and are allowed. Several people have independently told me this.
\- Did you put your OSP as 3-4+ months of work while double counting all your Codesmith projects as well? Did you put in the Project or Open Source section or did you put it under experience? Did OSLabs have to do a reference call to confirm your time there?
\- I know people hired as seniors who are paranoid they'll get fired when they realize more junior people are outperforming them. I advise a number of these people because they can't talk to anyone about it without getting found out and…
Me, I'm a non-anonymous member who has been here for 2 years and comment a lot.
My background is I worked at Meta from 2009 to 2017, grew from new grad to E7 principal engineer, did 400+ interviews of all shapes and sizes, participated in calibrations and interview offer panels, and was the number one code committer at the company when I left.
After I took a break, I joined my partners company which helps engineers with experience level up their careers. We work with a lot of bootcamp grads later on in their careers so I know about and hear about just about everything with bootcamps.
Codesmith caught my interest about 2 years ago when I was interviewing people to join Formation for leveling up and they had these really weird jobs at "OSLabs" that made no sense, and were being nervously vague about them in the interviews. I then went down the rabbit hole and found out that OSLabs was (…
I mean I want to have a productive discourse about it, the Codesmith people are downvoting this thing to oblivion just like I thought they would and not saying anything because it will only attract more attention to the post.
It would be great to talk about what you are paying for and where the money goes. Businesses can be for profit and still be incentive aligned, so I would love to have a discussion about where the money is going and what you are actually paying for.
They had layoffs a month or so ago so clearly the money is going somewhere and I genuinely believe that they would rather not take profits off the table to avoid those layoffs, so if the content is not great and instructors are being held back and overloaded, like where is the money going and is it being spent effectively.
Since I've been mentioning this publicly they have stated in info sessions that they are proud that all their instructors are alumni who stay to teach.
I just watched this documentary called "Escaping Twin Flames" on Netflix and they had similar vibes... two people started it and then hired some of their first students, who then hired more students, and then became leaders in a hierarchy of members. Paying customers -> teachers and coaches. And similarly that program has extremely polarizing views about it.
I saw him do a lecture where he makes a mistake on purpose. I saw someone else do the same lecture. Both people acted like it was just a mistake they did by accident, and was EXTREMELY performative.
Comments to me have ranges from: 'he's rusty himself but he's good teacher' to 'he just one of the first codesmith grads and he can't code at all himself at this point but fakes it for lectures'
I worked at Facebook for a long time and know about fake news so I try really hard to look at things from different angles and present things fairly. I'm open about my personal opinions about two aspects of Codesmith that I think are wrong, but I also look at everything else impartially.
RE: that comment. It's true but it's like being a 5th grader playing soccer with 1st graders... that person is probably the best at soccer, but if you are a grown up, you probably shouldn't be judging your soccer skills against kids, you want to find adult games to play. i.e being one of the best of a lot of not-good options doesn't necessarily mean much, but it is true.
This is why I've been here for almost two years now trying to tell people HOW IT IS. A lot of people have gone there knowing this and done well and I've helped them decide to go there, but you need to know what you are signing up for or you feel scammed and that's why Codesmith is so polarizing.... it attracts people who have no idea what they are in for but are ambitious and want the best outcomes, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
I've heard far more complaints from staff members than students/alumni have complained. A lot of students/alumni have found him motivational because he's given them the confidence to lie on resume and feel entitled to do so and it all came from his lectures about OSLabs and imposter syndrome. Staff seeing those lectures feel very cringy now and it's one of the reasons there is so much churn in instruction yet no one feels capable of giving him that feedback.
Yeah good point, the angle I'm coming from is about people just understanding where they are at and not being misled into believing something that's not right.
I do have two personal opinions about Codesmith that are my opinions (and while backed by others I do personally state):
1. The majority of grads lie on their resumes about their OSP projects and Codesmith's sister non profit signs letters of reference to back that up. I think that harms people who don't lie.
2. They make people believe they are mid level and senior engineers by the end of Codesmith and I don't believe this is accurate at the top tier company bar. I don't deny people get 2nd level engineering roles and good salaries, but I think the portrayal as "mid level and senior" is the wrong narrative, and that people should be getting appropriate junior roles AT TOP COMPANIES with the right setup, support and structure to…
So there are a number of bootcamps well regarded:
Codesmith, Rithm, Launch School, are a few I know.
The problem is one thing: **you have to know HOW THEY WORK and which is the RIGHT ONE FOR YOU.** I know a number of people going into Codesmith who know what they are in for and know all the OPs points and that's what they want to do, and they get good jobs.
Codesmith is NOT the program for a random person finding this subreddit and seeing $120K and 👀👀👀 💰💰💰 sign me up type mentality.
While that's a bit of hyperbole, it's also not for people who are woo'd by the feel-good and welcoming aspect of the staff they work with pre-acceptance who don't really know how this thing works but have "good vibes". You need to know how it works regardless of how much you like the people.
The OP made accurate points that can't be refuted so I think the strategy is downvote and ignore because commenting things like "I went to Codesmith, it changed my life" can't refute these points about HOW it actually works, no one should be doubting their solid outcomes compared to other bootcamps. But commenting will just snowball the post and cause it garner more eyeballs.