The general consensus is that bootcamps are not worth it indeed. But that is the general consensus for the millions of people reading this and wondering if it's the right time and not for the individual.
The three bootcamps you mention are completely different and you shouldn't rely on anyone's collective opinion here.
Feel free to DM me with your background if you want my opinion, happy to try to advise.
u/plyswthsqurles wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
You should be more open in this reply and mention the fact that you yourself run your own bootcamp/incubator and by DMing you for your opinion is likely to lead to a hard sale of "don't join them, come join formation.dev."
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
I don't run a bootcamp and people considering bootcamps should not be joining formation for the most part.
I even suggested what you should do and it had nothing to do with Formation so I have no idea what you want from me here.
u/plyswthsqurles wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
You charge 15k for a "lifetime membership" to, what is basically, a bootcamp of how to get hired.
So your hard sell is, teach yourself to code, once you feel competent, come to [formation.dev](https://formation.dev) and either pay 2500/month or 15k (it may not be a bootcamp but
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited★ FEATURED
Yeah I do often disclose and hear you on that. I comment all the time in this sub and people tend to know me but that's on me to keep explaining.
The membership is not lifetime, it's unlimited access to Formation until you get a job. Many people pay again again for their next job hunt.
If you have 4 years or more of SWE experience that is the average increased first year total compensation reported.
The methodology is explained in great detail but this is a new calculator that people asked for to understand the long term value of Formation.
Our outcomes are indeed very very strong but I think the weakness is maybe the time it takes because it takes about 6 months of part time mentorship to get there and its no small commitment, you have to be ready and all In.
u/plyswthsqurles wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I appreciate the civil conversation.
I think what your company provides can be of value but i think the way your going about it is the same as bootcamps...instead of promising a job in 3-6 months with some ridiculously high percentage rate your promising a salary that only 10%
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I'll share that feedback!
This is an average but a lot of people come in with like 80 to 100K salaries with no bonus or stock or anything and this increase accounts for all the bonuses and stock - which is probably why it seems to be unbelievably high.
u/metalreflectslime wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
> You charge 15k for a "lifetime membership" to, what is basically, a bootcamp of how to get hired.
It is not lifetime membership.
Formation only helps you up to the first SWE job offer you accept.
If you accept a SWE job, become unemployed, and you want Formation's help again
u/michaelnovatireplied·
This is correct, although of the people that come back it's a mix of people who lost jobs and who are still in their job but want a different job.
For example if someone went to Amazon remote and doesn't want to move onsite they might come back for the next job hunt while still at Amazon.
u/JohnWangDoe wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
What's going to happen to that one fellow, who landed a job half year ago and recently just got canned? is their ISA nullified
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Don't DOX anyone, but can give general cases:
1. We haven't offered ISAs for like 7 months now so it's going to be a smaller and smaller number of people in that bucket. But someone on an ISA who lost their job, their ISA stop the second they lost their job. If they don't get a job within another 12 months then it's nullified, if they do, it continues where they left off when they were laid off.
2. If they were not on ISA, then they paid upfront. They could return to Formation, likely with a discount, case by case and depending on the circumstances. But many people would choose to leverage the alumni community the best they can and not pay to return because their skills are still fresh enough.
Layoffs are very personal and happen for all kinds of reasons and don't happen that often, so each one is case by case, but that's a generalization.