Simplilearn Scam :They are Preying on Students and Corrupting India’s Education System! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I don't really know much but was just curious because I know people that did it a long time ago.
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A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I'm someone who was bullied my whole childhood, lived at home through college, and had major conference issues.
My views on Reddit come from defending those being taken advantage of.
For profit companies and for profit and not charities so expect to be marketed to and it's healthy to have critics challenge a company or product as well.
The new Google Pixel phone came out to some great reviews and some terrible ones.
I see myself as a critic. Maybe I'm like a fine cigar salesman who critiques whisky brands, complementary but completely different product, and I feel very comfortable with being a critic.
If you can't survive being critiqued then maybe you are actually a scam, or at the very least, you don't have everything figured out and maybe have to look WITHIN before blaming others. Some products like Rabbit R1 looked and sounded great and have CEOs who tell a great story. But exec…
Simplilearn Scam :They are Preying on Students and Corrupting India’s Education System! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Do your opinions also include Fullstack Academy (which is owned by SimpliLearn) or just SimpliLearn themselves?
A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I don't know what they told you when you graduated but they are telling new grads that they have "2 to 4 years of functional experience" so they can put that in applications and their resume.
From the materials I've seen, the changes seem irrelevant to getting a job right now.
A couple of people have Gen AI related jobs but most people are getting SWE jobs with zero AI, followed by tangential jobs, like support engineering and technical writers.
If the market rebounds enough for people to get jobs, I'm curious to see if they stay the course with the "modern engineer" or just double down on classic Codesmith techniques.
So I'm not even convinced the changes they made are correcting anything, but I could be wrong, I'm going off my corner of the market. Maybe Mavis Tire will hire a ton of modern engineers while FAANG keeps doing its same old same old.
A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Codesmith's new model is bullshit. They added 5 Generative AI lectures and are calling themselves an AI immersive. It's unclear if the content is even done yet or just in progress, with the people currently working on it having no AI experience in real life.
There is no "modern engineer". It's a fabricated story in the CEO's head that he's setting up and using alumni to +1 like zombies.
The "modern engineer" is a privileged Oxford/Harvard grad's idea for making the word a better place.
Good idea, but it's not what the market wants right now. If he wants to change the world, he needs to give the market what it wants along the way to get there.
Right now he's acting like a con artist, dressing up sly foxes like prized sheepdogs. Telling graduates with 3 weeks of OSP to list that on their resume as 2 to 4 years of "functional experience" because companies don't check (Recent alumni wer…
A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Absolutely, everyone is biased and so am I. I have a very skewed view of the world.
I started off as a middle class kid in Canada, who was terrified of leaving home.
I stumbled into Silicon Valley and met all kinds of people from self-taught people to Stanford grads, and everything in between.
I worked my ass off to become the #1 contributing engineer AT ALL OF FACEBOOK when I left in 2017.
I didn't like how I got EXTREMELY LUCKY to be there, but the Stanford and Harvard grads with wealthy families - who were brilliant and very hard working - just seemed to have different path.
Kamala Harris called it the opportunity of "failing forward" I think last night?
At the same time, bootcamps were not working to help those people from non-traditional backgrounds make it. There were ONE PIECE of the puzzle, but not the answer.
So after taking a break after Facebook, I joined my partner's…
A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
They are indeed completely different program types that aren't at all the same and the fact that after many attempts to explain this to them, they still think this is really shocking, they have no integrity and live in a fantasy world.
Graduated from Codesmith part time a few months back · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
A couple of alumni have sent ME their complaints because they said YOU personally don't do anything about them and were defensive receiving them.
Word are words. Actions are actions.
Don't gaslight your alumni when placements for people starting LAST NOVEMBER have been terrible, not one recent cohort 3 months ago.
Work all week, every week, for a few years straight fighting tooth and nail for those graduates like Launch School's CEO.
Don't make alumni wait weeks for resume review sand mock interviews.
Actually LOOK AT THEIR OSP projects and review them so your students don't ASK ME TO REVIEW THEM because the people reviewing them at Codesmith has never professionally written code.
When I report a huge security issue with one of your projects, don't ignore it for 8 months.
Do better with your actions, not your words. People aren't falling for your words anymore.
A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
So I used to multitask a lot of events in the background. Their CEO has no idea how to properly screenshare, so he shares all kinds of interesting stuff about Codesmith during these talks, from placements to students info and other Codesmith data. Once he said "I shouldn't be sharing this but...." - proceeding to share it. I collected and documented a shit ton of crazy stuff from these talks.
So it was a great way to try to stay on top of raw evidence.
Why do I care about the data to begin with?
I didn't in the past, but the best counter to any bullshit arguments like Codesmith's post above is raw facts. I'm now armed with so much raw information that I can confidently say what I say I believe to be true, and I can confidently push back on their incompetence like I am doing now.
A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Codesmith lives in their own reality so it doesn't matter. Facts don't matter. Details don't matter. High quality execution doesn't matter.
Just whatever their CEO thinks and makes up is what they believe.
A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy
They are indeed completely different program types that aren't at all the same and the fact that after many attempts to explain this to them, they still think this is really shocking, they have no integrity and their failure is on them and not me.
A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
My response here: https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/s/IFut3FqKNw
And yeah I'm blocked so I can't answer in that subreddit.
I think whoever wrote that lives in an alternate reality and I'm increasingly concerned about their program.
I am just one person, they should be talking to recent alumni instead of me.
A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I am indeed
App Academy - MASSIVE change to PT program, immediately affecting all students · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Removed duplicate
Numerous new warning flags at Codesmith. Concerned they are grasping at straws (Personal Opinion) · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
We do not compete with you. Our marketing and recruiting team have not mentioned a single person that they can remember in the past year even mentioning considering Codesmith, but many are asking about Interview Kickstart and Pathrise. Do you guys think you compete with Pathrise and Interview Kickstart as well?
I'm not sure if you are delusional or have incompetent internal communication processes but I explained in detail to Eric Kirsten on your team via email a number of months ago.
I full on recommend Launch School at this time. Do you consider them a competitor? Why would I recommend them if I'm here to take down competitors?
As usual you all are big on words and small on details and execution.
RE: Reducing Prices
That's a fair argument to make it more accessible. Why didn't you make it more accessible in 2022 or 2023 and why make it accessible now then?
Launch School Core Liv…
How is a $12.99 Full Stack Udemy course any different from a $7,500 Ironhack Full Stack Bootcamp? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Springboard is kind of this model. Their curriculum is licensed from Rithm School and Colt Steele and is kinddddda just like a Udemy course of his (i.e. recorded videos)
BUT they have alumni mentoring you aggressively to try to help you get through materials and evaluate your projects.
"The devil is in the details" because I hear mixed views on this approach. Having one dedicated mentor can result in your experience being dictated by how good that person is. And if they suddenly leave, you have thrash.
On the other hand, like a staff OpenAI engineer makes $1M a year, so if you want that kind of person mentoring you need a completely different model, as you won't get someone like that as a dedicated mentor.
Some programs try to have the super senior people do very large, one off talks to impart wisdom without too much effort.
I'm bias, this is not an ad and not about my company so I'…
App Academy PT Massive Changes · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Hi thanks for sharing this update! My opinion (not fact) is that the new CEO is making sweeping efficiency changes. She was proud of reducing Lambda School's internal costs by massive amounts and she is likely bringing that same approach to App Academy now to lower their costs and help them survive.
Regarding what to do about it:
I AM NOT A LAWYER, THESE ARE MY OPINIONS OF THINGS I WOULD THINK ABOUT
- Sometimes less is more, so having 5 hours of super high quality lectures with more experienced teachers might be better, I would give it a chance to play out first. I'm not optimistic but I would approach with an open mind.
- Legally, things can be messy. The marketing and website means something but the contract you sign means a lot more. And how this information is presented (and fine print alongside it) means something too. You need a lawyer (or ChatGPT) to read the contract and see…
How is a $12.99 Full Stack Udemy course any different from a $7,500 Ironhack Full Stack Bootcamp? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
A really good Udemy course designed for hundreds of thousands of people likely has more thought but into it than a bootcamp does, more production value, more consistency.
So why is it so much cheaper!?
1 - Accountability and 2 - Feedback
Why do people pay Weight Watchers or other social-based diet programs? Accountability.
Why do people pay personal trainers $200 an hour versus researching their own plan? Feedback.
This is about all bootcamps, not IronHack specifically.
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Reddit permanently suspended a dozen or so pro-Codesmith new accounts with various patterns (including two admins of their sub here), often attacking me and my company, but generally posting positive things about Codesmith out of no where with no context on who they were. Reddit has a small super-escalation team that can access all kinds of data needed to detect behaviors. Like fingerprinting computers and identifying people with multiple accounts from the same machine etc... and analyzing patterns on content.
Unsurprisingly, when this happened, all of this behavior immediately stopped for a few months and the Codesmith sub went quite without a post for a whole month. I don't know exactly what's going on with that comment above, but I know former Codesmith employees that explicitly said their leaders follow this sub and one who was asked to manipulate it. Their CEO is an avid Reddit use…
Don’t Do Bootcamps · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
What bootcamp did you do and do you feel like they did their part? I agree the market is really bad and agree with your suggestion but just curious.
Interview kickstart · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Oh cool, yeah that sounds like it might be a good background for something like IK. I don't know if you'll get the best answers in this sub because it's not really a bootcamp and the vast majority of people here are looking at programming bootcamps.
Future Code Codesmith Update 2 · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
It's also where bootcamp employees hang out with fake accounts to manipulate discussion. I guess those are trolls too, so maybe you're right.
Interview kickstart · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
What is your background? IK isn't a bootcamp meant for people with zero experience and it's meant to help you prepare for interviews if you are already a data analyst.
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
2. I think instead of assuming it should be easy, trying to cooperatively understand why it's not and imainge the scenarios I'm describing would help. Like if you can propose metrics that handle the cases I throw at you, I'm all ears. If you were only going to put in 5 hours a week at Formation you would want to be misled by averages sped up by people doing 40 hours weeks. If you have a bunch of interviews in the pipeline and you are intentionally delaying them for 4 months, then you both bring down the average for others without interviews on the horizon AND don't care about the average because you already have a plan. Like I said, we would like to normalize for amount of effort put into Formation, and have some ideas there, but they can't be computed in a spreadsheet.
3. The post had 1/10th the views of a normal post but your comment (deep in the threads and requiring manual expansion…
Prep for a coding bootcamp · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Yeah iterative method, doesn't matter much where you start I think, just expect many turns along the way as you get there
Prep for a coding bootcamp · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Understanding DSA isn't about interviewing, it's about putting together your tool belt and loading it up with the standard basic tools, like a hammer and a wrench and a screwdriver. The rest is all specialization, like getting a drill, or a stud finder, or saw, etc...
Prep for a coding bootcamp · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Yeah, do that on your own, then do the bootcamp to fill in the gaps :D
Prep for a coding bootcamp · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Purchase the 30 text books you would use in getting a CS degree and work through every page in under 4 years.
Graduated from Codesmith part time a few months back · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
What specifically did it teach you in your opinion to prepare you for that role? And how did you represent your background when applying, interviewing, and doing a background check?
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Google is in the process of re-indexing pages, takes variable amounts of time
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Yeah I would say it's relatively reasonable picture. I just did a search myself and it's quite a mix of people:
- mentors
- early career people with jobs that just haven't started yet
- early career people who got entry level jobs listed
- people who are doing well and chugging along just fine at their expected pace, regardless of what their time is at Formation (which is why again - placement time is really hard to figure out)
- people are are severely struggling to get any interviews
I'm not sure what the point is, like I'm extremely open that there are a small number of people we admitted when we required less experience (6mo to 1 year) who have been with us a very long time and we keep supporting and we've spent more money mentoring them they they will even pay us... I think this evidence that we stick to our promises and means a lot to people.
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
We removed the word "Guaranteed" this morning
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
That's correct, people who list Formation on their Linkedin are:
1. generally people with less experience and the group of people struggling the most.
2. generally people not working right now
3. generally many of the people who haven't placed yet
They represent a minority of people we work/worked with and we're proud to keep supporting them as we promised.
The typical engineer (FAANG mid-level/senior)+ engineers don't list Formation on their LinkedIns and are way more low key because they don't want their current employers knowing they are job hunting. We have CURRENT Meta, Amazon, and Microsoft software engineers, for example, who aren't going to advertise they are doing Formation publicly.
After people place, some people opt into being on our network page: [https://formation.dev/network](https://formation.dev/network)
And some people want to do a write up, like these 5 people r…
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
They don't for companies too.I think it's advantageous to know the radar of bootcamp grads for the future so they come to you down the road in a few years but I honestly think it's just that they have a marketing person cranking these out week after week.
You can try asking them but it's not at all because they are competitors.
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Pathrise supports people in many different jobs. You can see the distribution in their report from last year. Very wide range of technical and not technical. Your primary contact is a career coach who is trying to help you unlock your application funnel. They have way less materials and less legit mocks.
Formation is all focused on preparing for and passing interviews. We have unlimited resume reviews and tons of recruiters call prep. We have an in-house job hunt tracking tool. We source thousands of jobs a week and suggest them to based on your background. But we do NOT do a great job debugging the funnel and forcing you to document everything to get enough data to debug the funnel like Pathrise forces you to do.
For example, Pathrise will try to proactively recognize a low application conversion rate. Formation will be more qualitative and give you more resume reviews or one off advi…
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
From alumni and staff I've made friends with over the years and their stories pique my interest.
The public thing is on their homepage 53 offers in April May which is almost half the rate per day in their recent CIRR report.
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
1. I do so for bootcamps because I work with a bunch of bootcamp grads later on in their careers and feel like I can combine that with my FAANG experience to give solid advice to peple looking at bootcamps. Formation isn't a bootcamp. If you are going to keep putting in that bucket despite my repeated attempts to explain the difference then that's on you, but I see no problems talking about BOOTCAMPS that have nothing to do with what I do.
2. Yeah we could come up with some kind of aggregated 'amount of time to get a job' data I think, but we have to account for week to week workload adjustments people meet (which is very frequent, vacations and pauses, offer times vs interview times, which topics people were working on and weren't at which times, time to first offer versus time to offer accepted (since people can get multiple offers and intentionally DELAY THEIR JOB HUNT to create a co…
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
1. There is a thread about removing "guarantee" in that page header and we'll probably change it yeah, thanks for the feedback because we didn't ralize how confusing it might be.
2. This is the post I'm referencing: https://formation.dev/blog/outcomes-report-first-half-of-2024/. It's substantiated data, but it doesn't talk about non-success cases. These are the numbers I'm talking about that are insanely strong in 2024 compared to 2023.
3. You might not be happy if you are in the minority who didn't get a job and can't come to an agreement about paying for the value you think you got from Formation with us, but we do exit surveys, interviews and all kinds of user research and many are, so to each their own. If it's a concern for you upfront then you should talk about it with us and try to map out all of the scenarios and if it doesn't work for you, don't join!
4. Fair enough re: retir…
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
DIRECT ANSWERS TO POINTS/QUESTIONS:
Generally speaking about the word "job guarantee", I flagged this earlier for our team to think about, so we'll see but it's a uncommon phrase we use in one place with limited spacing that I can see, and there are way more common phrases, slogans, and thousands of other words in our contract to read that are much more important to understand. I standby the accuracy of that in the context, but I think the hundreds or thousands of words, and phone calls, and emails, make it clear to people what that means contractually before signing up.
I take the feedback that you think we should only use that phrase accompanied with stronger data showing that guarantee turns into a job and I've shared that feedback.
1.“**Don't be blinded by their marketing**..." Formations' 2024 numbers are insanes so far. 75% top tier placements, average first year comp gain of 1…
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
This. I don't know why some people occasionally find it sketchy that I try to say this loud and clear and it makes them suspicious and thing they are the same thing. Cross my heart hope to die they are not and I really don't want anyone to mistake them either what for their own good!
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Pathrise has dozens of reviews for almost every bootcamp for SEO purposes, it's not personal. I don't like this approach personally, but it's also not an attack on any program. it's like a ChatGPT summary of a program hahaha
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
We do not have a lifelong guarantee and we don't say that anywhere? Where does it say that?
Yeah unlimited support in some packages (like the main one we're offering) is cutoff at 15 months and we have the option to keep supporting you at our discretion. We are experimenting with that term but you are right just I should have mentioned that and you are also right that it's a bit confusing.
If you are considering Formation well go over your personal contract after determining which packages are appropriate for you and make sure you are good with all of the terms.
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Can you give me more context? You are throwing out a lot of assumptions about my past commentary, my wealth, what our company does, why I am here.
Like are you a bootcamp student, bootcamp grad, industry person, looking at Formation, a competitor?
I'm happy to list all of the problems with Formation directly as someone aware of all the things we do well and things we can improve. You have good questions to discuss fairly but throw in some assumptions that are crossing the line and aren't remotely true about me, my wife, and our mission.
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I'll give feedback to our marketing lead about the wording. We change our wording often and I stand by the wording. No one who has joined has mentioned finding this confusing. But if we're losing people from applying because they think it sounds like a scam then we should change it! But our marketing lead has to deep dive and make a call first.
We officially do not consider Codesmith a competitor at this time and in the past and do not market to the same people. Definitive answer on the record. I've emailed the same thing to one of their leaders and explained why.
Launch School is not at all a competitor to Pathrise.
It's extremely important that the record is extremely clear we aren't a bootcamp and don't work with people with less than 2 years of experience. Struggling bootcamp and CS grads are banging at our door and we have a small team and it's wasting time explaining to each of…
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
They also have "company interview guides" that sound equally authoritative. It's for raw SEO. I mean I know a lot of people there, I know the founders second hand, I think they have good intentions and don't overpromise anything and are fairly reasonable. We just have a different opinion on what the gaps are preventing people from getting jobs.
Their opinion is optimizing your resume and recruiter pitch in the job hunt funnel, our opinion is you need to have a strong technical toolbelt full of tools you know how to use well to step into your interviews. As a result, Formation is weaker on the raw job hunt funnel optimization side, and Pathrise is weaker on interview prep.
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
PART 2:
2. Yeah I comment on those. I'm aware of two Reddit posts. One is a person who left and ended up going out of SWE for their career and it was the right thing. The other person I don't know who they are but I do know someone who commented on that thread in support of the primary person recently tried to come back to Formation a second time, so maybe their opinion changed haha, but I want to go through the points.
**MOST IMPORTANTLY - we make hundreds of changes (literally) a week and Formation today is not Formation a few months ago, is not Formation a year ago.** I'm going to answer these as they would be TODAY, and I stand by my previous comments on those posts at the time they were posted.
-------------------------
1. "**Don't be blinded by their marketing**...". We absolutely have people that are still with us and very low morale. There are a number of people who joined us…
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Happy to keep discussing yeah, we're not perfect and some of our reasons might not be good enough but I can at least explain what those reason are directly from one of the founders 🙂.
PART 1:
1. I hear you on clarifying what "guaranteed means", because there are qualifiers that I explained, and maybe there is a better one liner for it. The support is guaranteed until you get a job is how I would respond/state it given your framing.
RE: " lifetime career support, job hunt help", my gosh some bootcamps promise this and it's not remotely the same as what any of these four programs offer and not nearly the same as what Formation offers. I don't want to write paragraphs here but to put it one way, a number of "DS&A career support engineers" at a top bootcamp like Codesmith have come to Formation themselves to work on their skills and get their next job.
Years ago I had debates on people…
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
This is SEO for them haha, they have assessed reviews of all bootcamps
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
We adjust our marketing all the time and make hundreds of changes a week - inside and out - so as other platforms come up then we might change it. I personally don't live that tagline because it doesn't really show what's truly unique about us too.
Comparing Outco, Formation, Interview Kickstart, and Pathrise · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
All four of these programs are not bootcamps and they're not for people who have no software engineering experience. so they aren't meant to replace any kind of education and they aren't considered forms of education like bootcamps are.