Numerous new warning flags at Codesmith. Concerned they are grasping at straws (Personal Opinion)

Numerous new warning flags at Codesmith. Concerned they are grasping at straws (Personal Opinion) Hi all, over the years I've developed a decent sense of the bootcamp industry from both the inside and the outside. For better or worse I have developed quite the insight into Codesmith. As one of the more controversial bootcamps (known in the boom-times for placing people with $137K median salaries who will fight to the bitten end for Codesmith, with others who aren't buying the 'Codesmith way' on the opposite side. "Polarizing" is a good word and the most innovating things in the world are polarizing. Over the past month I've been pretty quiet as a number of current and former students and staff have contacted me to chat about things and shared their views. I've organized this post into clear sections. Just a disclaimer, I'm a moderator of this sub and I supported my founder in starting and running a mentorship program for experienced software engineers. We do not compete with bootcamps and I don't feel like I have any conflicts of interest in discussing bootcamps, but I want to disclose and s uggest you research me and my background to know who I am. These are my person opinions as an observe sponging up information and nothing at all to do with my work. **1. 95% off discount on their Prep Programs and a Hail Mary "Get Ready for 2025" campaign.** It was reported to me by alumni that enrollment is way down, with recent cohorts being half full and in desperation, Codesmith might be lowering the bar and presenting a false hope to get people to join in the next three months. While I put this first, this is actually the most recent development of several that prompted this post. Codesmith is offering their $850 prep program for $[59](https://www.codesmith.io/csprep-promo) until September 10th. They have been extremely transparent that they don't do marketing and instead they put their marketing budget into: Free classes (trying to get you to join JSB) -> JSB (trying to get you to join CSPrep) -> CSPrep (trying to get you to join the immerseive. By tanking the price of CS Prep they are lowering the bar to get into this funnel, and it's the first sign of the funnel collapsing and the bar lowering. Another page shared with me, shows a new marketing narrative focussing on getting ready for the "2025 recruitment rush". I have a close eye to the industry and I don't personally see any evidence right now of a 2025 recruitment rush and this sounds like made up BS to me. I see: - a new-grad recruiting pipeline in fall 2024 stronger than fall 2025 - a contentious federal American election that might cause volatility - nervousness about interest rates and a recession Promising a recruiting book in "early 2025" without any hard data or justification why is offensive and misleading. BE CAREFUL. **2. Cherry Picking Marketing** Codesmith is publishing on their old website homepage, new website, curriculum guide and email about having "53 offers accepted in April-May". First, that's a pace of 0.85 a day. In the recent **audited CIRR outcomes**, there was a placement every **1.5 days** so this rate is almost half that of the recent official results. Which is really bad, but is being marketed as a good thing. Second, what about June and July? My sourcings indicate that June had about 1-2 dozen placements, which is **even lower than the April-May rate**, or about 0.5 a day. **CODESMITH: IF YOU HAVE APRIL-MAY PLACEMENTS - TELL US JAN, FEB, MARCH, JUNE, JULY too.** My sourcing indicates they were much worse. If you don't want to show those months, then explain why you are **abandoning CIRR** and going rogue with your own misleading placements like you accused other bootcamps of doing in the past. **3. Misleading Alumni Placements - placement from 20 months ago reported as a "new placement"** Codesmith recently sent out a survey to alumni to re-collect their placement information and they have been publishing that information to staff and alumni as "new placements"... many of those being very old placements. For example, it was reported to me by an alumni that one of the "celebrated placements" in the past few weeks **PLACED IN JANUARY 2023 AND WAS NOT A NEW PLACEMENT.** I'm not sure if this entire campaign is a mistake on Codesmith's part of if wires got crossed between employees, but it's extremely offensive to alumni struggling to get jobs to celebrate a placement from 20 months ago as a 'new placement' and it makes those people want to complain to me. A couple of people feel like Codesmith is gaslighting them by making them feel like it's boom-times for grads, when the actual results are not there. Anyways, I'm on vacation in one of the most remote parts of the world right now. I'm brining my portable satellite with and will respond the best I can. Good luck and stay safe.

I have zero formal relationship with Launch School (I have occasional chats with the Founder) but they seem to be telling people how it is at least. Another top bootcamp Rithm School shut down because of the market.

I have to be fair, both to sleep at night for my own values, and because I have a following on here that expects me to be fair and reasonable. I don't know Will Sentance and why he does what he does. But the sad thing is that we're approaching scam or incompetence. One is illegal, and one is career ending. So even with the benefit of the doubt, I don't think I'm being too kind here. I do believe though deep in my heart that everyone at Codesmith would like nothing more than to see their grads succeed in incredible jobs and I stand by that too.

Launch School is experimenting with Launch School Core Live, which is entirely free and might have prompted Codesmith to discount CSPrep. Launch School works well for specific people, just like Codesmith still works for a dwindling number of specific people. The main advantage Launch School has if it's smaller. They run 4 cohorts a year or so, and then the founder is more directly involved in the day to day, keeping costs way down. As a result they have a decent placement rate in this market. So I am recommending Launch School but only if it's the right place for you and you can explore their free options to try to figure that out.

Check out Launch School Core Live, which is free right now.

I was doing some math on Future Code and it's possible that the program will give them a significant profit to survive for a bit longer. Need more details about how much they are paid from the city. I'm sure surviving because of a philanthropic program from the city of New York makes you feel even better haha. Anyways, thanks for sharing. A number of former employees have contacted me over the years. Many to apologize for their leadership's internal behavior calling me out and dismissing me internally when they feel like they agree with what I say. Codesmith tells these people I'm a jealous competitor. I do what I do because former employees like this appreciate me for being real and wish they could too without violating their NDAs. I feel bad for current employees who still believe their story and tow the line and it's why I generally have patience with them.

I mean Fall 2023, will edit thanks!

The slow path is to get a job using your existing degree that is at a big tech company and use internal resources to transition over the course of a few years. I've seen some people do this and it's worked out extremely well. 1. You learn along the way 2. You get a good salary and benefits 3. You have a ton of context to help add value in a transition while you ramp up on technical 4. Some companies pay for masters 5. Many companies have internal engineering training you can try to participate in. Now if you can't get a job at a top tech company, try to find something that hits on some of these. Like maybe finding a job at a company that will pay for your masters. Or finding a non tech job at a tech company that has zero chance at ever becoming an engineering job

It's hard to say. Tax credits mean you were paying the taxes to begin with so they eat into profits more than they do to practical impact (for super high profit companies). As long as Wall Street adjusts their modelling and the companies remain insanely profitable, things should be fine. But companies that are smaller and rely on the credits might hold back and I don't know what that will mean for them.... maybe the Reich get richer and jobs concentrate at FAANGs?

They said their 6 month 2023 placement rate was 75%. Historically it has been 100% so they consider this a concern. But my view in this market is that it's fantastic. The 6 month Codesmith rate for end of 2023 grads that I tried to calculate with unofficial sources was about 20% for comparison.

I absolutely think you should do many different things that are free because personally I found that you often have to do the same thing a couple times for it to click and to get the ball rolling. and there's also different styles at different times and there isn't just one thing that works the best for everyone. it's one of the most frustrating things about this subreddit is that people are looking for an objective single answer when they're often isn't one.

Hi, thanks for sharing, I've heard similar things. Interestingly, Codesmith isolates each cohort so it's actually fairly hard to figure out how others are doing. People know their own cohort and the ones before and after who they interact with as junior/seniors. Do you have any comments on how Codesmith staff have communicated to you? Like if they have told you it's not good or there, or they say things are fine instead? But yeah, the 6 month placement rate for end of 2023 and early 2024 grads has tanked and Codesmith isn't saying a word - instead they are saying things that make it sound like everything is fine and Codesmith is doing great. Launch School transparently had a 75% 6 month placement rate and because of Codesmith delusion above I've actively recommended not going there and actively recommended Launch School. Anyways, if others in your cohort feel the same, share this post with them. No one has yet to say otherwise to me.

We do not compete with you. Our marketing and recruiting team have not mentioned a single person that they can remember in the past year even mentioning considering Codesmith, but many are asking about Interview Kickstart and Pathrise. Do you guys think you compete with Pathrise and Interview Kickstart as well? I'm not sure if you are delusional or have incompetent internal communication processes but I explained in detail to Eric Kirsten on your team via email a number of months ago. I full on recommend Launch School at this time. Do you consider them a competitor? Why would I recommend them if I'm here to take down competitors? As usual you all are big on words and small on details and execution. RE: Reducing Prices That's a fair argument to make it more accessible. Why didn't you make it more accessible in 2022 or 2023 and why make it accessible now then? Launch School Core Live is completely free so why not make these all free if accessibility is your goal? RE: Cherry picking your outcomes Let us know offers accepted in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, May June as well then! If not it looks like you are cherry picking.... very obviously and your own recent Alumni feel that way so tell THEM and not me, they care a lot more than me. RE: Misleading Alumni Placements I'm not in that channel so I don't know why, but your own alumni raised this to me that they were surprised to see their friend show up as a new placement when they placed a year ago. I floated this by a former staff member who concurred and sent me a survey you sent out recently to try to reengage alumni who were already in the system as a likely source.

Your post was blocked by Reddit's filters not by a moderator. That's what the moderator log says. This happens to 3 to 10 posts a day and is a common occurrence and I was just clearing out the log and filtering duplicates. If someone else didn't share your post already, I would have overridden and approved it because it's now irrelevant as a duplicate.

The log shows that Reddit flagged it, like it does a bunch of posts for which I am not notified of, and I don't review them in real time, and check periodically. The log shows I removed it a midnight Saturday night, when I reviewed the queues and it was at that point a duplicate of a post already in the sub. I'm not sure why it showed up in the queue again today, where the log shows I removed it again and tried to explain that it was a duplicate with a comment this time so it would be clearer.

I'm extremely pissed off at your bullshit response Codesmith. It's now 10 months later and things are worse then even and everything I said was correct. Everything you wrote (your post was removed by Reddit) was false bull shit you made up to manipulate people when you knew how bad things were. Things did not get better. The 2025 "recruitment rush" never happened. Another 50% of your staff was laid off and you have hardly anyone left. Your unethical behavior and marketing is catching up with you and I hope everyone sees it.