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A Message From The Codesmith Team To This Community

12 of Michael's comments in this thread · View thread on Reddit ↗

u/metalreflectslime wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

Is Michael Novati still banned on /r/codesmith?

u/michaelnovati replied ·
I am indeed
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
My response here: https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/s/IFut3FqKNw And yeah I'm blocked so I can't answer in that subreddit. I think whoever wrote that lives in an alternate reality and I'm increasingly concerned about their program. I am just one person, they should be talking to recent alumni instead of me.

u/Potatoupe wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

Interesting that they call Formation a Codesmith rival. The two seem to be completely different program types.

u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy
They are indeed completely different program types that aren't at all the same and the fact that after many attempts to explain this to them, they still think this is really shocking, they have no integrity and their failure is on them and not me.

u/Puzzleheaded-Row9244 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

Just have a quick search on this sub-reddit and you'll see about 50 negative posts about Codesmith from disgruntled grads, and no, not by Michael.

u/michaelnovati replied ·
Codesmith lives in their own reality so it doesn't matter. Facts don't matter. Details don't matter. High quality execution doesn't matter. Just whatever their CEO thinks and makes up is what they believe.

u/illustrious_feijoa wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

Lame that you're banned from their sub, but why would you even want to go to their events or join their Slack?

u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
So I used to multitask a lot of events in the background. Their CEO has no idea how to properly screenshare, so he shares all kinds of interesting stuff about Codesmith during these talks, from placements to students info and other Codesmith data. Once he said "I shouldn't be sharing this but...." - proceeding to share it. I collected and documented a shit ton of crazy stuff from these talks. So it was a great way to try to stay on top of raw evidence. Why do I care about the data to begin with? I didn't in the past, but the best counter to any bullshit arguments like Codesmith's post above is raw facts. I'm now armed with so much raw information that I can confidently say what I say I believe to be true, and I can confidently push back on their incompetence like I am doing now.

u/Potatoupe wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

Interesting that they call Formation a Codesmith rival. The two seem to be completely different program types.

u/michaelnovati replied ·
They are indeed completely different program types that aren't at all the same and the fact that after many attempts to explain this to them, they still think this is really shocking, they have no integrity and live in a fantasy world.

u/Noovic wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

Both parties are skewed . They both have their personal interest in kind even if they day they re trying to be non biased it’s human nature . Personally I wouldn’t recommend any bootcamp atm for anyone . It’s basically burning money you could spend on a real degree bc no one

u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Absolutely, everyone is biased and so am I. I have a very skewed view of the world. I started off as a middle class kid in Canada, who was terrified of leaving home. I stumbled into Silicon Valley and met all kinds of people from self-taught people to Stanford grads, and everything in between. I worked my ass off to become the #1 contributing engineer AT ALL OF FACEBOOK when I left in 2017. I didn't like how I got EXTREMELY LUCKY to be there, but the Stanford and Harvard grads with wealthy families - who were brilliant and very hard working - just seemed to have different path. Kamala Harris called it the opportunity of "failing forward" I think last night? At the same time, bootcamps were not working to help those people from non-traditional backgrounds make it. There were ONE PIECE of the puzzle, but not the answer. So after taking a break after Facebook, I joined my partner's existing mentorship work to start a company that would help people from non traditional backgrounds get from step 1 to step 2, not from step 0 to step 1. Just like you, and everyone else, our stories bias us. And our stories give us all unique perspectives. I'm here to share my perspectives openly and transparently. Whether you like me or not, agree with me or not, I'm here trying to be an open book, as me - an individual person. Codesmith's post is absurd. Tying me to some company mission and making up a completely bull shit narrative that I've already explained to them privately is not true... It really is a sign that no one should do bootcamps right now, especially Codesmith, they are grasping at straws and blaming everyone.

u/No_Thing_4514 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

Whether they pivot to a new model or not it doesn’t change the fact boot camps are no longer viable.

u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Codesmith's new model is bullshit. They added 5 Generative AI lectures and are calling themselves an AI immersive. It's unclear if the content is even done yet or just in progress, with the people currently working on it having no AI experience in real life. There is no "modern engineer". It's a fabricated story in the CEO's head that he's setting up and using alumni to +1 like zombies. The "modern engineer" is a privileged Oxford/Harvard grad's idea for making the word a better place. Good idea, but it's not what the market wants right now. If he wants to change the world, he needs to give the market what it wants along the way to get there. Right now he's acting like a con artist, dressing up sly foxes like prized sheepdogs. Telling graduates with 3 weeks of OSP to list that on their resume as 2 to 4 years of "functional experience" because companies don't check (Recent alumni were told this directly from staff member). The sly fox is smart and hard working but it's not the prized sheepdog companies want. It's a privilege to do work with impact, not a right someone gets for going to Oxford and Harvard and having an unfounded idea that their fellow privileged friends believe will change the world. Codesmith is incapable of giving the market what it's asking for at this time. They are betting the company on this unproven idea of the "modern engineer" and want you all to be an experiment that will hopefully work in the future. And maybe it will work in a year, two years, three years, but that's not what someone should be paying $22K for. Codesmith isn't a cult membership, it's a school that is supposed to prepare you for a job NOW. It's reckless, irresponsible and wrong. Personal opinion.

u/SlowestTriathlete wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

I think they're past getting desperate. They are 100% desperate and I think they waited too long to take corrective measures. I was there in the latter half of 2021 and things were already starting to turn south and nobody would acknowledge it.

u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I don't know what they told you when you graduated but they are telling new grads that they have "2 to 4 years of functional experience" so they can put that in applications and their resume. From the materials I've seen, the changes seem irrelevant to getting a job right now. A couple of people have Gen AI related jobs but most people are getting SWE jobs with zero AI, followed by tangential jobs, like support engineering and technical writers. If the market rebounds enough for people to get jobs, I'm curious to see if they stay the course with the "modern engineer" or just double down on classic Codesmith techniques. So I'm not even convinced the changes they made are correcting anything, but I could be wrong, I'm going off my corner of the market. Maybe Mavis Tire will hire a ton of modern engineers while FAANG keeps doing its same old same old.

u/Intelligent_Guard290 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

I have never been to a boot camp, nor will I ever. But Michael is legit my spirit animal, absolute Chad single handedly bringing codesmiths to their knees 🤣

u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I'm someone who was bullied my whole childhood, lived at home through college, and had major conference issues. My views on Reddit come from defending those being taken advantage of. For profit companies and for profit and not charities so expect to be marketed to and it's healthy to have critics challenge a company or product as well. The new Google Pixel phone came out to some great reviews and some terrible ones. I see myself as a critic. Maybe I'm like a fine cigar salesman who critiques whisky brands, complementary but completely different product, and I feel very comfortable with being a critic. If you can't survive being critiqued then maybe you are actually a scam, or at the very least, you don't have everything figured out and maybe have to look WITHIN before blaming others. Some products like Rabbit R1 looked and sounded great and have CEOs who tell a great story. But execution and timing matter and you can fail to critique nonetheless. Codesmith isn't just failing to critique, they are trying to disparage the critic and pretend that a flawed product is the best in the world standard.

u/illustrious_feijoa wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

This is embarrassing. Codesmith didn't even try to refute the cherry-picking claim, which is the most important one. They basically just repeated the facts Michael stated in his original post and then ended with, "No U." Great work!

u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I agree. Emotions aside from being publicly attacked in a place where I can't respond and am being name called by people in their community, their response is objectively terrible and doesn't refute anything. It's why so many people are calling it embarrassing and desperate and it's a really bad sign for Codesmith.

u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

My response here: https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/s/IFut3FqKNw And yeah I'm blocked so I can't answer in that subreddit. I think whoever wrote that lives in an alternate reality and I'm increasingly concerned about their program. I am just one person, they should be ta

u/michaelnovati replied ·
Based on feedback from the Codesmith Team, I unstickied this comment. It was intended as an official personal response and to stand out from other others, but I agree with them that it's more fair that the comment be ranked based on Reddits algorithms.