The statement is a bit hyperbolized but it's true.
Bootcamp grads resumes get thrown in the trash and it's why you see grads from places like Codesmith not mentioning at all that they went there and putting 3 week long group projects as 1 years of work experience instead.
It's so sad to me when I see someone proudly talk about their "first SWE job" bootcamp placement and then you look them up on LinkedIn and see "3 years as SWE at self employed" (some made up experience).
This kind of thing has exhausted the industry and they now throw bootcamp resumes on the trash.
It's harsh but true and you have to figure out how to navigate the industry instead of pretending this isn't true and being delusional.
Yeah it's expensive and it's not like we have some magic spell to cast to hand you a job either.
The goal is to increase your annual compensation by way more than the cost. The average placed Fellow in 2024 from their self reported placement forms, increased their first year comp by over $100K and that's how you can justify the cost.
Now can you do it on your own and get the same increase without paying us? Of course and it's different for each person.
For example, someone might not want to negotiate their offer and we make it completely painless to increase the offer by $20K, paying for Formation itself regardless of the other increase.
Some people do like 30 mock interviews (which are run completely like REAL interviews with real engineers), which would cost them way more with a competitor.
Some people make like $150K already and an hour of their time is valuable so they would rat…
Hey /u/[8um8lebee](https://www.reddit.com/user/8um8lebee/),
Yeah, I mean very bluntly, you're not alone and we (my company) works with a lot of people like you - experienced engineers who need help navigating, preparing for, and interviewing at top tier FAANG-ish companies that ask DS&A, SD, etc... In 2024, everyone who has started has 1 to 30 years of industry experience, typically around 5 to 8 right now.
There are a class of programs that focus on interview prep that aren't bootcamps but help you prepare specifically for interviews. They are good options if you are getting interviews on your own and not passing. Formation is my company, Interview Kickstart is our main competitor and both of us prepare you comprehensively for top tier companies, and Interviewing.io and Hello Interview focus JUST on mock interviews.
You will get iOS topics as well but 75% of your interviews will be…
People have sent me LinkedIns (e.g. "Codesmith just said my friend got a job and they were placed 7 months ago, see : <linkedin>") so I'm assuming you would be able to look up people on LinkedIn and see.
I haven't done it for a long time but I used to look through the LinkedIns, and analyze just the work history. If you haven't done that it opens your eyes to how some people are getting jobs. A number of them have YEARS of experience listed.
I can't comprehend how it got normalized behavior for like someone to on slack and tell their cohort like 'hi everyone I got my first job, I'm so nervous and excited but want to thank all my cohort makes, I couldn't have done it without you!' and then silently their LinkedIn says they had 3 years of SWE experience that was really them having a Euphoria fan site on Squarespace with zero code and that clearly was how their resume got through.... (thi…
Are the Codesmith announcements:
1. people's promotions and 2nd or 3rd jobs
2. people reporting jobs several months after they placed
3. people job hunting for around a year or more
The reason I ask is that people have pointed out that Codesmith recently started adding alumnis new jobs to those announcements and intermixing them with new placements.
I do agree with the "Codesmith Method" of applying for jobs though. I also talked to a number of grads about it. Based on their sentiment I think there is a reason people have removed themselves from the Alumni List because they were being inundated with Codesmith grads who have zero experience. One person told me they removed themselves because they felt so awkward, like people attending timeshare meetings and feeling they have to listen to this embellished pitch and just want to get the heck out.
I agree with most of this, two comments:
1. I completely agree when you zoom out, 12 week Coding Bootcamps make absolutely no sense to make you think you'll get a job. For every 10 bootcampers that get a job, I estimate that 8 out of 10 have problems keeping it. Could be an unstable company, could be you are in over your head, could be you fake it until you make it and leave before not making it. It keeps me employed because bootcampers tend to have a lot of problems later on... and we only focus on interview skills - one part of the problem.
It's questionable when bootcamps like Codesmith tell people they have the "capacities" to be a "mid level or senior engineer" with ZERO work experience just by going through a 12 week program.
If you fall for the marketing and believe it, you should watch some MLM videos, crypto scam videos, and cult documentaries about areas you aren't familiar…
Hi! I'm the co-founder of Formation. Sorry about your experience, I'm not sure what happened, but if you DM me I can look into it. Most of our team was off today for an extra holiday because the time has been operating at 110% and we wanted to give them an extra day off.
I absolutely recommend talking to alumni and current Fellows as well. Specifically ones with a similar background to yourself. We also change quite fast so I would try to take to someone who started in the past few months.
We have a surprising number of people who come back to Formation for future job hunts and pay us a second or third time, because each time is different and unique, so that's why talking to the people most similar to you is important.
The day to day at Formation is quite unique, and unlike anything else so we really want you to learn how it works and be on the same page, otherwise it's a waste of tim…
Yeah exactly, that's why people tell me this stuff, they need the support and aren't happy about it.
It can make people feel like they have to pay for this AI course to continue to get people's attention.
I stand by my opinion that if they have the resources to build this AI course, those resources should first make sure their SWE immersive is in good shape first. The instructors working on AI should be doing these career services.
Again, I see the argument for abandoning alumni and going all on in AI stuff - which is the trend - they just can't in the same breath say that SWE students are getting a world class best experience.
\+1. I should have maybe talked about this more, but I think AI will create a ton of new jobs that don't exist at the intersection of tech and other fields.
I actually think Codesmith is philosophically most aligned with me on this of the 4 but they are going about it in a really weird way for marketing it haha, which is an artifact of this pivot.
They can't say overnight "all you 3500 SWEs that paid us $70M over the past 10 years.... we're no longer making SWEs and we're instead making prompt engineering lawyers"
They can do the following over the course of 2 years though:
1. redefine SWE as the "modern engineer", someone who is less coding focused on has broad capacities to solve any problems
2. re-target the definition of the "problems" to "legal prompt engineering"
3. most of these "SWEs" start getting these "X prompt engineering" roles.
4. they remove the word SWE and call th…
I completely coincidentally just posted here about this trend across the industry: [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1ggvdbo/in\_a\_last\_hope\_to\_survive\_bootcamps\_are\_going\_all/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1ggvdbo/in_a_last_hope_to_survive_bootcamps_are_going_all/)
OMG they are also using Codesmith's slogan. 🍿 for the IP dispute and who gets the trademark.
In a last hope to survive, bootcamps are going all in on "Gen AI" programs aimed at their own alumni - 3.5 major bootcamps pivoting to Gen AI courses (Codesmith, BloomTech, App Academy, Deep Atlas (original Hack Reactor team)). AA and BT have PAUSED all SWE programs as of today (Opinions Inside)
DISCLAIMER: These are my personal opinions based on my observations as a self-proclaimed industry expert in the top-tier SWE industry and in the bootcamp industry. My company offers interview prep mentorship for generalist SWEs with experience. We are not offering Gen AI programs at this time and aren't working on it at this time, and I do not consider that a conflict of interest.
I noticed today that App Academy's SWE courses are all "waitlisted" now and no longer enrolling. For me that was the impetus for this post, which has been a month or two in the making.
First, summarizing the state: b…