Triple Ten claims about 50% or people hired are hired before they graduate. How many people have been hired so far in your cohort.as you approach graduation?
I don't have any data science recommendations right now.
My overall advice is to give yourself a lot of time to find a job because the market is really tough. And second, to leverage your past career and experience the best you can to find the new job, rather than kind of hiding it if it's not data science work.
Yeah me too, every time people ask about TripleTen I have to explain this and it takes a lot of back and forth to understand.
I'm not even making any judgments if it's a good or bad program, just that this metric is severely misinterpreted by many.
That's not true.and you are correct.
The denominator is only people who got jobs.
So of 100% of people WHO GOT JOBS, 50% did so before completion, 26% within 90 days.
It's kind of a trick, but very clear in the fine print.
They do not provide placement numbers and that's part of the problem. They provide the percentage of people with jobs that look less than six months to find their job vs more than six months, and many people mistake that for a placement rate.
They do not provide any indication of the number of people that graduate who start, or even the percentage of people placed who graduate.
Don't mistake their data for a placement rate.
I've done some anonymous surveying and almost all of the randomly chosen engineers and recruiters mistook many Codesmith grads OSP as employment experience.
I'm assuming the auditors would make the same mistakes at least one some occasions.
Even Codesmith's website listed a graduate employed at their OSP as their job, which is a one time mistake, but just showing that this is a problem on multiple fronts.
Do you give them specific instructions to not count OSPs or is it possible OSPs are being counted if someone presented their OSP as a job - against Codesmith's instructions?
It's still fairly important but it's also hard to know how well you did. I would always tell people it will feel like they failed the interview no matter how well you did because we keep going deeper until you get stuck and don't know what to say.
Do you know what partnerships they have for hiring?
I see the word being thrown around. Like one alumni worked at Mavis Tire and referred someone and then called that a hiring partnership.... versus a real signed contract with a company.
In this market, if it's not signed, cross your fingers and hope a referral goes through but it's not something anyone can guarantee.
BIG NEWS AT APP ACADEMY: Founder & CEO Kush Patel is stepping down from his role as CEO and replaced by former BloomTech executive Mari Nazary as the new CEO.
BIG NEWS AT APP ACADEMY: Founder & CEO Kush Patel is stepping down from his role as CEO and replaced by former BloomTech executive Mari Nazary as the new CEO.
SOURCE: [https://www.appacademy.io/blog/mari-nazary-joins-app-academy](https://www.appacademy.io/blog/mari-nazary-joins-app-academy)
​
>After 11 years as CEO, I will be transitioning into a new role at App Academy as board chairman. It's my honor to welcome Mari Nazary, a passionate advocate for tech education and economic mobility, as our new CEO.
Also refer to source recording from a year ago, where App Academy laid off a number of TAs and mentioned using more AI tools: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmIBwP6tBh4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmIBwP6tBh4)
COMMENTARY:
1. Based on the market, it's no surprise it's been a rough 2023 for bootcamps and because of the lack of entry level hiring, it continues to be a ve…
There's no fixed deadline right now, we went past the deadline to interview as many people as possible due to overwhelming demand so Netflix is reviewing on a rolling basis.
1. I've explained numerous times why Formation doesn't publish CIRR or similar outcomes and that we aren't a coding bootcamp.
Since you seem to know Formation better than I do, explain to me what "graduation" means at Formation? This is the core principal of all bootcamp outcome standards that I can't figure out what that means for us.
If you can't explain "graduation" accurately then just back off and stop spreading nonsense about us. If you can thoughtfully read the specs and propose what it means for us, then we can talk keep talking about it productively about why I agree or not.
2. We advertise all over Reddit and we re-target people who visit our website. Drawing false conclusions is not fact. Raw data is fact. So asking "Why do I see ads for Formation in this sub?" and getting a completely open and transparent answer is exactly what I'm talking about being open and transparent…
Copied:
3 schools left in CIRR: one had 15 students for their entire year of reporting. One didn't even follow the new standard and they decided to let them publish anyways because otherwise you would have just Codesmith and a 15 person school left.
Codesmith and CIRR are tightly coupled. Codesmith is the only school who cares about CIRR and CIRR would be collapsed if Codesmith left
3 schools left in CIRR: one had 15 students for their entire year of reporting. One didn't even follow the new standard and they decided to let them publish anyways because otherwise you would have just Codesmith and a 15 person school left.
Codesmith and CIRR are tightly coupled. Codesmith is the only school who cares about CIRR and CIRR would be collapsed if Codesmith left.
Facts are facts and trolling or mass downvoting doesn't change that.
Anything you work on for 3+ months full time and launch publicly and get real people using it, giving feedback, and iterating. (Getting people to use it can be hard and it's part of the learning experience)
So the good thing about CIRR is you have to report how many people fall in these buckets, so it's all transparent.
The inadequacies though are that just because it's there, that's not good enough. If it's there but people have to analyze it to understand the real picture, it can be improved. If it's there but then companies just ignore it and tout their top level numbers, and saying that these are rigorous CIRR numbers, the best, trust us! It's leveraging the fact that no one understands or cares about these between the lines details and those are there primarily to make the standard APPEAR more trustworthy.
I'm not putting this one way or the other in this reply, just laying out both sides.
In all fairness their standard says loud and clear that the number of people who reported salaries needs to be listed on the website and I don't see it anywhere on Codesmith's website.
Both CIRR and Codesmith's Director of Outcomes stated that they want or are considering expanding CIRR to work for interview prep platforms.
I co-founded one of the 3 main interview prep platforms (5 if you count interviewing.io and hello interview)
So if someone adamantly believes that my company should be reporting to CIRR then they could see this as not impartial.
I explained emphatically why we have never even considered reporting to CIRR and why it doesn't make sense for us (can't speak for all interview prep companies but I imagine Pathrise would feel similarly given the over a dozen types of jobs it supports and the drastic difference in junior.vs senior outcomes)... that this kind of thing just doesn't work.
So I feel impartial in my head.
Correct, if you haven't heard a yes or no explicitly about Netflix then you are still pending and will hear back either this or next week. Sorry for the delay, we want to make sure we interview as many candidates as possible before Netflix locks in the final decisions.
Significant\_Wing has been pretty neutral and consistent for a long time, I think they are just asking why I posted such an intense review of this.
Clearly vert few people case because no one showed up to Codesmith's CIRR recap sessions. Very few people commented on CIRRs AMA.
So I think the person is more saying, why bother caring about this because CIRR is largely irrelevant now.
I do it because sometimes it's in the little places that the people get manipulated the most.
Why !?!!? haha
I've spent LESS TIME on Reddit lately according to my metrics.
I've just gotten exceptionally good at absorbing content within seconds, and responding within minutes, and you can tell from the amount of typos I have.
Rithm, Launch School, and Codesmith are the three I always suggest looking at as a wide range of styles and types of learning. I'm currently NOT recommending Codesmith because they had 1/3 to 1/2 layoffs, and announced a number of changes and I want to let those settle in before resuming recommendations. I've heard that instruction is stabilizing as those laid off depart, but it will take a bit more time.
Line-by-Line Critique of CIRR Standard Document. Opinion: good intentioned organization but spec is not rigorous and robust and I point out all of the problems that make it one of the weaker specifications I've read in my opinion.
There have been numerous discussions around CIRR lately and there are too many words being thrown around, along with ad hominem attacks, and no one other than me seems to be reading the standard - even the CIRR board misquoted it.
I refuse to debate anyone further on here until they acknowledge this post and read it because any counter arguments not based on a thorough analysis of the spec are garbage conversations that don't belong on here. Thoughtful debates over lines of the spec are appreciated.
This is long and thorough and if it's too boring for you to read the whole thing then don't share your opinions about it.
If someone calls CIRR "**rigorous"**,…
WGU vs bootcamp is a toss up to me. I don't think WGU is particularly comparable to a "good or top tier" CS degree, but it might be better than a bootcamp in terms of raw instruction and content consumed.
I know some people who have done bootcamps in their senior years and it's a mixed bag.
I would recommend these:
- I would first consider a Post-BACC, like University of Oregon
- Take as many CS courses as you can in your final year, or consider adding a fifth year athat's all CS
- Start a major project now, that will serve as something better than a capstone project at a bootcamp
If none of these make sense for you, then I would consider a top bootcamp and dive deeper there.
I also turned on Crowd Control so comments with negative scores are auto collapsed, so people would have had to expand your comment to even find mine too...
Adds evidence people are following my specific comments and mass downvoting them and I'll be sharing that with Reddit.
1. This is a completely different thread about CIRR and you didn't give any context, didn't give any feedback privately or on that other thread, and are bringing it up here on a thread about Codesmith - all without any context. **I absolutely copied that comment from that person from CSX Slack in that thread,** and I don't apologize for it at all. Anonymizing a comment from a 20,000 public Slack community that anyone is invited to join is not morally or ethically wrong.
2. She said she was new to the community and then that "we" (without clarifying) started the Codesmith sub for "especially those who are new to Codesmith like me!"... to me that implied that all the people who started it were new to the community. I agree this could be ambiguous, and I think I should have stated something like 'I am interpreting this to mean that it was started from people only new to the community for p…
I agree with this. I'm someone who has to navigate this challenge and I can't just have it all ways that work for me and dismiss the consequences of having a public identity because I don't want to acknowledge them.
I have my real name. Some people appreciate that, but others are skeptical.
I state clearly when something I say is an opinion, but if I say it when also talking about my company I have to think about the consequences. Is this something my company would agree with, and if it's not, I might have to extra emphasize where the opinion is coming from, rather than just throw it out there.
Working at Facebook from 2009 - 2017 through some really challenge times (some for Facebook and others for humanity) I really saw why it's CRITICAL to have integrity in pubic discourse.
It's hard. Someone insults me and I'm defensive and emotional in my head. But if I bring that online and it…
I was talking about this post, by "Annie - Codesmith" with the image attached that said "Official Reddit AMA"
Screenshot: [https://ibb.co/2PJTKnb](https://ibb.co/2PJTKnb)
I have no idea what you are talking about copying and pasting something from Andrea.
I talk to people as friends and give contract advice, helping people with HR violations, people complaining about their work environment, it's confidential because the people asks me not to talk about it. This isn't "content" and people have a right to complain about their work environment.
I actually have no idea what she's talking about and don't want to assume, but if you are interpreting it as content I shouldn't have access to the Codesmith needs to sound the alarms and call in their engineering team no matter what the time and address this stuff. At any company that would be an SEV 0 emergency.
I understand this is a tough situation and I wouldn't be so tough if someone reached out to me privately, told me this, and we have a human conversation about it.
I feel really bad personally if she feels this way and if she reached out to me personally I would listen and try to help with…
I don't see anything that I don't think I shouldn't see, other than perhaps confidential things people share with me that I never repeat publicly but certainly drives my opinions about how Codesmith is run. Anything I talk about publicly is stuff Codemsith is choosing to share. Since they always talk about producing the leaders of tomorrow and senior engineers with strong capabilities I treat this stuff like it's intentional. If it's not intentional and they communicate this to me then I would help and report all this stuff, but it would require admitting that their technical and operations team is super is not remotely up to even the industry standard, never mind the best in industry.
I appreciate the clarification about your personal feelings.
1. I don't think this is fair that you say above:
>The AMA is something I’ve done on my own volition as Codesmith’s Director of Outcomes, to provide an open space to talk about our CIRR reports, reporting standards, and graduate outcomes
Yet this was advertised by your CEO and in you CSX Slack in a giant image as an ["Official Reddit AMA" ](https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T7X3836NN-F06SK9BNY9W/ama.png)
I genuinely feel bad about the personal feelings, but unfortunately you are also the Director of Outcomes who was doing an Official Reddit AMA.
2. Similar to another commenter, I was also offended by this, in my personal opinion:
> Please all - go have a great weekend! Get outside, read a good book, spend time with family and friends.
I stayed up until 1am doing a super important infrastructure upgrade at Formation. The…
Most Open Source engineers are paid though as their jobs, so are they portrayed as Open Source Software Engineer jobs at a "Company" or was it bucketed under projects and the projects listed as projects instead of companies?
I was notified today that we will be delaying acceptance for a week to complete all of the interviews and for Netflix to review everyone carefully. If you had an interview, hang tight and you will be notified if you were accepted or not soon.
I mean it wouldn't surprise me at all if people are showing up at Codesmith and saying that they want to join Formation soon? and should they do Codesmith at all? But that doesn't mean that we are an alternative to that program. And people aren't choosing to do Formation VS Codesmith and comparing their options and outcomes the way Annie portrayed above. If someone is doing that it's because they misunderstand.
On our side we actually encourage those people to do Codesmith and come back later. On their side if they encounter confused people and are portraying Codemsith and Formation as similar options then they are not helping at all in getting people to the right place at the right time.
I explained this above that our primary competitor is interview Kickstart and they have similar numbers on their website and a lot of people ask us and then we try to explain to them why it doesn't mean that much. but since it comes up from people that are casually comparing us and Interview Kickstart we decided to put it there with multiple paragraphs of detail on how it's calculated.
We're going to updating it soon with our new highest offer with someone who really wants to put it up there for whatever reason.
I can state officially that I am not aware of anyone in the past 12 months who received an offer/acceptance from Formation to join the Fellowship that stated to us they were considering going to Codesmith or Formation at the time and choosing between them.
There are people who apply to Formation who we tell to go to Codesmith first and the come to Formation in 1-2 years but we reject them. So maybe they are telling you they are considering Formation but it's actually not an option for them in reality?
I am aware of one person in the past year who was advised to go to this path that got a job instead of going to Codesmith and then came to Formation after 6 months or so of that SWE job.
I am very much aware of the highest Codesmith offer and that person was not a SWE and had 8 years of very good experience in their field and received a role in the field at that company, so that wouldn'…
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
I can state officially on behalf of Formation that I am not aware of anyone in the past 12 months who received an offer/acceptance from Formation to join the Fellowship that stated to us they were considering going to Codesmith or Formation at the same time.
There are people who apply to Formation who we tell to go to Codesmith first and the come to Formation in 1-2 years but we reject them. So maybe they are telling you they are considering Formation but it's actually not an option for them in reality?
I am aware of one person in the past year who was advised to go to this path that got a job instead of going to Codesmith and then came to Formation after 6 months or so of that SWE job.
I am very much aware of the highest Codesmith offer and that person was not a SWE and had 8 years of very good experience in their field and received a role in the field at that company, so that would…
I stay told to not comment on the AMA, but my questions weren't critical. they were just hard questions. They are looking at data intelligently and asking questions from it. I saw a Launch School AMA where all of the questions were like that and they were extremely strong supporters of the program that asked them.
I was super concerned that the Codesmith poster also expressed concern that she feels like I'm ever present in her work and I have no idea where that came from and I've never seen her before until the call yesterday that they had where I was present camera on with my full name.
Codesmith shares so much student and user information, code, content widely that if she is unaware of that I think that that's on them to figure out and not to blame on me. But now I see where this attitude comes from. If a leader feels like that, it tells me they have absolutely no clue whatsoever how…
I mean this is another flaw of CIRR. The data for it comes from the survey that bootcamps do at the end and they really don't need that much evidence for anything included in the results. The Most complex part of the specification is the documentation requirements for outcomes and there go through a lot of different cases for if someone gets a job or doesn't get a job etc. but the key thing is that they say that things like a text message counts as documentation as long as it includes the offer date or start date of the job, the type of job - e g. full time job, and that the person accepted it.
The data is audited but No auditor needs to check that the original data was provided is correct. the auditors are checking that you followed the process. so if you have a text message, the auditors check that the text message is documented following the process, but nowhere does it say how a sal…
No definitely not. They have good intentions and they try. I've read every word of the standard document five times and it's just not robust.
I could spend a day rewriting it to fix numerous ambiguities and gaps.
They just updated it too and didn't fix any of this stuff.
Like if you read the G.R.A.D standard document from Galvanize it reads like a properly written legal specification.
The CIRR spec reads like a marketing brief. No numbers sections, no clear definition of terms, ambiguities in the worksheets that don't match the spec.
Many people with good intentions don't do a good job executing and this is one of these cases.