Account has no history and the JD says to contact a gmail address and there is no website despite stating that there is a product already launched, so it's hard to verify the opportunity.
Interesting because their public data only includes people refund eligible 6 months post graduation in the denominator of placement stats.
So if like 80% of people just drop out or don't graduate the placement rate isn't 80% but like 20%...
And the unit economics definitely work if people pay and disappear and don't get refunds
How many people do you think are going to try to get their money back? And does TripleTen have the cash to refund everyone without going bankrupt?
Let's say you paid $8,000 upfront and used up $2,000 of resources and want an $8,000 refund at the end, but they only have $6,000 in the bank. They have to get that $2,000 from someone else who paid $8,000 and isn't getting a refund.
So In this example one successful person would cover refunds for 3 unsuccessful people, just to break even.
Let's say everyone got 30% off discount codes, $500 went to the referee, and the additional CAC was $1,000 per prson.
$8,000 -> $5,600 - $1000 - $500 - $2000 COGS = $2,100 profit per person
And the profile itself is $4100, so in this model it takes two successful people to pay back one refund.
I don't know what their numbers are or what their success rates are but the point is there is some threshold o…
They just published this a few weeks ago saying 82% of people got tech jobs within 6 months: [https://tripleten.com/usa-documents/outcomes/Outcomes\_Report\_2025.pdf](https://tripleten.com/usa-documents/outcomes/Outcomes_Report_2025.pdf)
But the denominator only includes people with jobs + people who got money back guarantees, so people who do not complete or do not meet money back requirements aren't included.
So 18% presumably got their money back.
So whatever someone estimates the actual placement rate to be based on number of initially enrolled, you can figure out roughly how many people started, didn't finish and didn't get any money back.
I couldn't disagree more and this comment demonstrates a lack of understanding of how top tech companies work. Maybe it's how other companies work though. Like I know Capital One, which isn't like a top tech company but is a good company, has a very gamble process. Codesmith has so many people there that feed each other questions to prepare and game the process, specifically the System Design round which is very fact based and a small number of questions there. Codsmith grads have a document that contains these questions and they practice them with previous grads who work there. They also have a channel at Capital One to support each other because most have to lie to get past the resume screen and work with more junior peers who outperform them at first, and they use this channel to support each other.
Anyways, the interview process isn't a game of leetcode and saying what you need to d…
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
Oh I mean I have no idea how serious it was or how often it was said. Or more details on why. And it might be Princeton, not Yale, I have to check my notes and I was on an airplane with terrible wifi. There are ivy league grads who go to Codesmith and do extremely well so I actually don't think that would be an absurd consideration to do it after graduation if you changed your mind about CS.
The link is about senior engineer titles which is a completely different topic, but falls under the marketing bluster, but has nothing to do with choosing Codesmith over an ivy league education.
"🚫 OSPs (Open source projects) were **not include**d in employed-in-field stats, even if some of our grads had them featured as experience on their LinkedIn profiles. "
u/annie-ama \- doesn't that mean you reviewed all of the grads regularly who both placed and didn't place as well to see if they were placed and should be aware of this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis\_of\_52\_most\_recent\_codesmith\_offers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/)
I did the exact same analysis early to mid 2023 graduates in that report and that's what I observed.
I know you all are still working on this problem so I'm not going to be too hard on it but I've been hard on it for years now because my point the whole time was you can't have it both ways - i.e. you can't claim to not know about this problem…
1. Launch School Captsone 75% in 6 months in overlapping window.
So I disagree!
2. But even Launch School is upset at the decline from like 95% to 75% and acknowledges that as market impacted.
The thing is that paying $22.5K to go to Codesmith with a 43% chance of getting a job within 10 months from now, like it makes you ask if now is the time, if this will even work, etc...
No one is forcing anyone to do a SWE bootcamp and they might just not be rational anymore.
Like Codesmith was like $17K a few years ago and had like a 90% placement in 6 months. The math is ENTIRELY different than $22.5K and 43% chance.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
One of their advisors said in info session(s) that his son who went to Yale was considering Codesmith or wished he did Codesmith or something, so I don't think it's all bluster.
Look at this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ9\_hxujtFQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ9_hxujtFQ)
1. Mid level "contractor" at Microsoft, not full time employee - called Senior Engineer
2. Codesmith instructor turned CS educator - called Senior Engineer
3. "Tech Entrepreneur"
4. Staff level manager - legit
It's continuous bluster!
They are indeed, but they are comparing themselves to "elite grad schools at a fraction of the cost" so that's what I compared them to. If they said "Pay two years of state school tuition to get a better job in 12 weeks" I wouldn't be so hard on them.
They are indeed, but they are comparing themselves to "elite grad schools at a fraction of the cost" so that's what I compared them to. If they said "Pay two years of state school tuition to get a better job in 12 weeks" I wouldn't be so hard on them.
Launch School Capstone had 75% placement within 6 months, so no these aren't fantastic. 6 months is an insane amount of time. That's $55K of opportunity cost as these salaries!!! So a drop is not good.
Codesmith has undergone turmoil to say the least internally but I think they have kept the instruction relatively consistent, so this could be more about the market than Codesmith.
But there is another option - no bootcamp, so doing the best they can in a bad market doesn't mean it's worth $22.5K
It is now yeah, before I posted this I did a thorough DNS server check from multiple places and the site was completely dead, it's DNS was removed. It looks like they were transferring it to a new host, which doesn't explain why you need 4 days of down time to do that.
"Senior Software Engineer" at Cap1 === "Principal Analyst", they are the same level, which is what he was promoted into.
You need to have 4 years of experience to be senior at Cap1, and I personally have seen the resume of a grad that a Codesmith career services engineer helped him fake to show 4 years and be qualified for that role as he was not going to be considered without a resume showing that.
One of them is in Indonesia and I'm not qualified to evaluate that market.
The other one is intended for veterans, which is another niche area I'm not qualified to evaluate.
So Codesmith is the only mainstream bootcamp in CIRR.
Carlos received a Senior Analyst Role, which corresponds to high entry level/low mid level at top tier companies compensation and scope-wise. "Senior Software Engineer" at Capital One is a different level and corresponds to Prinicipal Associate that he was promoted to.
I know at least one Codesmith grad who got a Senior Software Engineer role but he lied on his resume to show 4 years of work experience to get the job.
Similarly Carlos in that blog says he had zero experience yet his LinkedIn showed a large amount of experience, I think as a freelancer or something last I checked.
To me the discussion isn't so much what the norm is but is it work the cost for a random person looking at a bootcamp. And if it's now taken 6 months longer to get a job, that is an insanely critical piece of information to factor into a decision to drop $20K on a bootcamp.
Maybe it means it's not the end of the bootcamp model itself, but it might be the financial end if no one wants to pay to go anymore.
The biggest reading between the lines problem - which they also directly confront but the consequences re less clear - is that in 2022 - like a good 60% of people got jobs in 180 days AND reported salaries to Codesmith, whereas in 2023 - it's like 25% of people who got jobs in 180 days AND reported salaries.
So like imagine having a room full of 800 people and in 2022 you look around and people more likely than not had a job and was still in contact with everyone. In 2023 that number is like tanked.
So one level past the raw placement number is this concerning sign of disengagement, mass staff turnover, etc...
I think Codesmith is trying to navigate that and we'll see where they end up but I do think they need (and are) making a lot of changes and these 2023 results are not an affirmation that everything is working and it's JUST the market.
I've been told this is "sketchy" but you can you get lists of students from GitHub OSLabs projects as everyone heavily markets themselves in those projects.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy· edited★ FEATURED
I seriously think your a troll and I try really hard to treat everyone without assumptions, but like Reddit keeps flagging like ALL of you comments as 'may be from a spammer or someone likely to break rules'
I've repeatedly directly answers to you about what Formation is and what we do and why we don't have a concept of a placement rate so I can only assume you are a troll at this point.
CA 180 day was 42% or so and this is 43% or so, so they align really well.
CIRR came back online, comments here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1jv8h0u/cirr\_is\_back\_after\_a\_45\_day\_outage\_with\_a\_brand/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1jv8h0u/cirr_is_back_after_a_45_day_outage_with_a_brand/)
CIRR is back after a 4-5 day outage with a brand new website design and 2023 data. Only 3 schools reporting. In depth analysis of Codesmith's 2023 vs 2022 data in the body.
Analysis coming soon and ETA 1am Japan time.
I don't know what it is but I posted about the 3-4 eras of bootcamps: 1. first wave of super ambitious smart people, 2. wave of DEI, 3. COVID, 4. collapse.
It's possible bootcamps go away yeah and there is no new era.
There are AI programs popping up in their place so it's a possible path. I been taking to bootcamps about AI and I expect that to be the only path for many to survive so I could see it happening, but I'm not sure.
I'm the mod of that sub yeah but no one uses it so I'm not sure how popular AI bootcamps are yet haha.
I mean I feel bad for the companies too and there are many lessons that should have been learned but weren't.
Like when times were good, Codesmith was marketing that anyone who left CIRR it was because their outcomes got worse and that they were above them all by haveing 'transparency'. Now Codesmith's outcomes started tanking (based on 2023 data in California) they haven't published yet. I understand they are still planning on it, but it's April now and results have historically come out in March - last year was mid-late March for example.
It's very ironic, that after criticizing everyone for leaving CIRR, they push change the rules to 360 days and then they delay bad results. I expect they will still publish them, if they don't they should just shut down at this point... they have to life with the consequences of past decisions. They can delay them until they have some new data to ca…
CIRR website went offline on April 5th, 2025. 2023 results never published. Very sad to see it end like this instead of wrapping up with a goodbye, but it's another sign that the current bootcamp era (12 weeks to a $100K job) is over, and the start of a new one is beginning.
CIRRs website has been down again for a couple days and as of right now (3pm Japan time). It had gone down for many days in the past and come back with new management, Reddit AMAs, promises of changes and expansion. I can't possibly fathom it went down again unintentionally after that happened a couple years ago, and if that's the case - it's neglect that basically means the same thing - either CIRR is effectively dead, or no one competent cares enough to put in the effort in it to keep a simple website up.
The only change they did recently was expand the job hunt window for graduates to 360 days from the canonica…
Yeah Launch School Capstone is the only program I'm recommending right now (for the right people), still posting transparent numbers, still holding themselves to 6 month placement windows.
Where is CIRR in all this. It's April and we haven't seen 2023 numbers yet when not so long ago we should have been seeing H1 2024 data....
I think it's good feedback to improve how LSBot is explained though in the product so people know what their options are and what the purpose of it is and don't make up their own story.
AI is hard and it changes every week.
I myself was very slow to adopt it. and is still very slow on the rollouts.
One of the challenges with AI is that the models are not that cheap - especially the good ones. And if someone is paying $20 a month like 10 queries can cost $2 and that's a significant portion of that cost that was not there for AI.
If you want to give a query tons of context or run multiple queries to do a council of experts approach to reduce hallucinations or use more expensive models that do the stuff, then it gets even more expensive.
The models get better everyday though and they're so competitive that it's pushing on the pricing so I would give them a chance to improve.
but at the same time building AI product is hard. so it's good that you're giving them feedback so that they can learn as well
ultimately no one is going to have the magic product that solves…
https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/
Been following since then and the same problem - arguably worse now as more people are placing after 12 months of job searching.
There are certainly people who believe the ends justify the means and don't have a problem with this but my problem is just be honest about how it works and don't present a facade of bullshit about creating mid level engineers out of nothing and being insanely defensive about it.
Just look at their blog that they released yesterday. Fantastic human being who had a life-changing transition that is undeniably a great outcome for the person.
but the story is presented in a completely misleading way. trying to make it seem like this person is crushing it in the industry based on how well codesmith prepared them.
Reading between the lines, it looks like the per…
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
Codesmith people don't put Codesmith on their resume. They list their 3 week project as a year of work experience.
I like the idea though and if you actually did do this basically a fake resume that looks like you have 1 to 2 years of work experience. I bet you you will actually get a couple of callbacks and the strategy grads are relying on to get interviews.
I would be careful with actions that might be judged as blackmailing if you are considering legal action because in civil cases you are destroying a lot of good faith.
If your contract has a confidentiality clause then you might be breaking it by posting this stuff.
Your damages are limited to $2000 or so that you want refunded, but the damages for violating a confidentiality clause (unless capped in the contract itself) can me orders of magnitude more.
It sounds like you are upset and don't feel the program was useful so I would instead complain in reviews/opinions about what you received for $2000 and why you don't think it's valuable.
I'm not a lawyer but if you aren't contractually owed a refund and being offered a generous one off one I would try to compromise here and use it as a learning experience for future contracts.
When things were good this sub was full of "I got a $150K job, AMA" and people patting everyone on the back.
I think it's fine that this sub reflects reality and that's healthy.
I know how hard it is for people to break into the industry and if someone does - having a positive and supportive environment helps.
But quite frankly - almost everyone who is considering that change right now probably shouldn't. Positive vibes and pats on the back won't get you jobs like they used to.
The bootcamp OP mentioned, Codesmith, is struggling with this right now, because it's a positive and supportive place. The CEO said in a video recently that students are basically paying to have unconditional "you can do it support". This worked so well for new people, who had low confidence in their coding, and a lot of potential. It's not working now at all, and even people who want that environment aren't s…
I didn't say it's a scam, I said people think it's a scam or they think it changed their life, it's controversial.
But I hear from both people who get jobs don't get jobs and I hear from people who adamantly argued with me on here in support of them change their tune a few years and later. I respectfully talk to everybody who wants to talk to me about anything really.
I'm not trying to take away from your experience, but you should ask yourself - in all of the positively and clapping and emojis and great vibes with your cohort-mates and staff.... the amount of anonymous vitriol I get on here from those same people is something to think about.
It looks like a cult documentary where everyone on the inside is devoted and talk about life changing experiences, and people on the outside get attacked.
If you love Codesmith so much you will be super mean and personally insult or mock someone online, think about it a bit.
My arguments over the years have been professional and legitimate criticism of Codesmith's:
1. claim of creating mid level engineers with zero work experience
2. OSP projects that are not good quality engineering work but portrayed that way
3. the trend of the vast majority of grads exaggerating on their resumes
These aren't personal a…
I believe rejections will be a bit later. People can decline or drop out and there will likely be a wait-list too. But I'm not sure on the timing of that.
Hi almost all have been sent out now so if you haven't heard back you likely weren't accepted but still need to wait for official correspondence to know officially.