Got a Job! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Congrats yeah that's a great first job out of the door, good luck! Work hard and show them what you have!
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CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hi, I appreciate the non-crazy tone, but I have some corrections and other responses:
1. I'm not the CEO of Formation. Sophie is the founder and CEO and the true driver of the mission. I'm here because I have a personal interest in helping people early in their careers after doing so for many years and seeing what impact it can have on people.
2. Formation is not a bootcamp no matter how you frame it. We relentlessly provide technical training until you get a new job you are happy with, no matter how long it takes, I think the average is around 6 months (not sure). We refuse to work with people looking for a quick bootcamp to whip them into shape for an upcoming interview, for example.
3. Codesmith is not our competition. I lose sleep over Interview Kickstart, Outco, Pathrise, Scalar, Exponent, etc... and not about Codesmith.
4. The day to day is nothing like a bootcamp or any kind of f…
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I will mention it more often, I absolutely don't want to hide any affiliation, I'm here with my real name and photo for everyone to see!
See around down the road Crafts!
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited
I've been warned about engaging fake trolls, and I've said this several times but will repeat.
Our goal is you help you get a job at a top tier company that is the best fit for your career. That often accompanies very large salaries, but that is not the main goal (unless it's the Fellow's goal). People take lower salary offers all the time if the company is setting them up for success long term.
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
You have a throwaway account that's 2 months old with 10 comments, 6 of which are on this thread.
This is either a giant troll or you are grossly misinformed about the industry.
We have an assessment process to help figure out people's starting point at Formation to get the ball rolling. Our team has more experience than anyone else with this stuff and obviously we don't know everything, but every team member is passionate about sharing their experience with people from non traditional backgrounds to help them get top tier jobs and achieve their goals. Like these are some highlights of our full time team:
\- 3 engineers who have not only conducted countless interviewers but trained hundreds of interviewers at Facebook
\- 3 principal level engineers from Facebook, one of whom who reported directly to the CTO.
\- 1 staff level Nextdoor engineer, who did extensive interviewing and cr…
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
This is kind of proving my point. All of the 10+ year experience people we work with are talking to recruiters BEFORE starting Formation and they need help navigating the market and making sure they get the best job for them out of all the options.
So a Codesmith alumni who gets contacted days after graduation could be a great person to then go to Formation to talk to people with years and years of FAANG industry experience to help them make the next best steps.
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Why do you have access to all of Codesmith's numbers? Do you work there?
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Finnigan, I'm sorry but you don't understand whatsoever what Formation does and if you look into it, I'm happy to answer questions rather than respond do your factually incorrect statements.
Our purpose is not to get people mid or senior level jobs at FAANG but to help people with their own career goals. We have helped people go from FAANG -> startup. One person from Agency -> X and at the exact same time time someone went from X -> FAANG. One person's goal might be another person's starting point.
We're playing different games here.
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hi Crafts :D Thanks for adding the info again, appreciate civil conversations haha.
I totally agree with understanding who is posting information and understanding where they are coming from. Reddit is a tough place because everyone is anonymous (and it's easy to attack people anonymously) and I insist on using my real identity, have an open mind, stand behind my statements, and engage in good discussion.
Now for the expected reply hahaha:
I disagree about competing with Codesmith. If someone at Codesmith told you this it means they are probably concerned about us competing with them but not the other way around. I don't think I've interacting with anyone who said "I'm choosing between Formation and Codesmith", whereas I've interacted with many people who have done Formation AFTER Codesmith (either right after or a few years later), or who wanted to talk about if it was the right thi…
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
We have a lot of people go to Formation right AFTER going to Codesmith, not INSTEAD of. People who WORK at Codesmith come to Formation. For the large majority of people starting Codesmith, they do not qualify for Formation or meet the bar. AFTER Codesmith, most people are right at the middle or low-middle bar for our full program track. I love working with Codesmith alumni!
No throwaway accounts people, have a real discussion without baseless angry accusations!
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
‼️ CIRR is audited but it's far from unbiased. The board of directors and founders are all affiliated with bootcamps. It's not a 501 3c non profit because that's a conflict of interest. It's registered as a "business league/lobbying organization". Now I'm super middle of the road person, and don't judge those groups, but lobbying groups are not unbiased.
I wrote a long post about Formation's data will paste here because believe it or not I spend most of my time helping Fellows and making Formation great. **We are not a school or bootcamp. We compete with things like Pathrise, Interview Kickstart, and Outco.** Talk to any current Fellow or alumni. We are not perfect, but care about every single outcome, we have by far the most experienced team, we work with people with full technical training as long as it takes to get there, and it works really well.
We are a mission driven organizatio…
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I agree that if the people perform well, which they are, then you could argue that it doesn't matter.
At Formation, before we hired dedicated ex-FB recruiters, I used to interview every Fellow. We handful of Codemith people, the ones with industry experience didn't even talk about it because they already had a job, and the ones that did not have industry experience were quite covering up the fact that it was open source but not lying, and it very quickly unraveled that it was not real work experience. We hired a Codemith alumni went through our own program so it's really not meant to be a criticism of the program, so I don't mean that it necessarily reflected poorly either.
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Thanks additional info about Fellow Program, that clarified a lot and much appreciated.
Yeah by CIRR being on life support, absolutely not a criticism of Codesmith in any way, it actually could free them to publish more information faster! Their results are great, I'm sure they should want this to be published sooner!
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Looks the Fellow program remains selective for strong people and it's more of a rounding thing.
Thanks for adding the information about the work experience. It's great that they officially warn people about it. While it was the majority, many people did not do this and got good jobs, agreed.
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
Oh sorry I've been talking about this elsewhere over time.
SUMMARY: I audited over 200 Codesmith alumni, documenting LinkedIn and GitHub commits, and noting the number of years of "work experience" as a "software engineer" that was claimed at the open source groups projects Codesmith runs, like Reactime and Spearmint. I have a large spreadsheet, but the majority of people claimed 6 to 18 months of "work experience" but commited 2-6 commits over 1-3 weeks on the projects (my understanding is this project is a 6 week unit in the course). The most extreme being someone that claimed 6 months of work experience and their only commits to the project were changing an image file and updating a README. In addition, these projects have no activity outside of Codesmith, no issues or feature requests from outside Codesmith, and it's not clear any of the tools or projects are used outside of Codesm…
CIRR results for 2021 up! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
I'm going to write up my free flow thoughts as I'm reading through it. I'll focus on Codesmith because it's the most talked about bootcamp on here and I don't have much time. 5 minute recap!!
1. CIRR is basically dead. Only four schools in the USA reported. Only one school in SF/NY reported.
2. Codesmith's numbers don't including an auditing report. I'm assuming they were audited.
3. Codesmith LA:
1. Similar graduation and placement rates
2. Solid increase in median compensation
3. They changed the buckets but it looks like a $10K increase in salaries across the board.
4. Increased number of graduates by 40 is almost 40% and maintained strong numbers, which is a good sign
4. Codesmith NY:
1. Similar number of graduates from previous report, no growth
2. Large jump in percentage placed within 6 months from 80 to 90%
3. Kept same salary buckets, easier to compare tren…
Can you help me with markdown format resume for Microsoft leap application?? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
hey, use a .md file extension for the gist and it will render nicely
Applied for ISA, got denied.. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
We aren't a bootcamp but we offer ISAs at Formation and reasons people can get rejected are:
1. Low credit score
2. Past loan defaults
3. Other existing ISAs, such that you will owe too high of a percentage of your income
4. Too high of a debt load
5. Other reasons: bankruptcies, educational loan problems
6. Failed identity check: wrong birthday or SSN
The program has the ability to override these criteria, but if they are selling off or financing your ISA, it won't be eligible to be financed.
So you might be able to try other bootcamps that might be willing to take a risk. To be completely honest the biggest problem with failing the above is not that they don't trust you, but that you might have creditors on your back higher up on the list and might not be able to pay the ISA back.
If your problem is something in the past that you have mostly resolved, you might be able to find a pr…
Harvards introduction to CS? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
I would take it gauge your interested before spending a ton of money on a bootcamp. You can't use it to get a job after.
Completely going rogue here, unrelated analogy to the question entirely:
One of the challenges with learning programming is that the growth is exponential and once you get there, you lose perspective. It's like skiing. A black diamond seems impossible and terrifying at first. But by the time you do them, they seem fine. And those blue runs that previously looked terrifying as well are so easy you don't even break a sweat
The problem and confusion is that our words to describe things are flat. I've heard expert skiers say "oh that black diamond over there is an easy one to warm up today" or some beginner skiers say "getting down that steep blue will be the accomplishment of the day, it was so hard last time we fell constantly"
All bootcamps (including Codesmith and…
Bootcamp advice · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Thanks for comment cheddar and correcting based on your experience!
Bootcamp advice · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Hey, I'm going off of the "a third" comment by Philip Troutman here. A third of people with a CS degree, engineering thinking experience. https://youtu.be/r5Ffspvd4Ik?t=500 from 2020. Not just degrees but degress or experience.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "engineering thinking" statement was meant very broadly.
Opinions on Formation Fellowship (bootcamp-like program) · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Awesome, thanks so much for this write up!
I can give quick open answers to these:
​
>time from "completion" to landing a job \[maybe shown as % of fellows who find a job within X months (3,6,9,etc.) after completing the work, for example\]
I forgot to mention another thing, which is that the amount of training you get changes week to week depending on your availability for the next week. So we bucket people in to "full time" and "part time" but that quickly gets more granular down to the number of hours and can change week to week depending on your schedule (you can also pause for vacations, etc...). I do think with all of these caveats though we could give some numbers based on different average commitment levels.
​
>% of job applications/interviews/etc. performed before landing a job
I think this one we could do. So you can apply for jobs whenever you want and we…
Opinions on Formation Fellowship (bootcamp-like program) · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hi legend, Michael here from Formation, we're running a small test starting this month (June 2022) with people in Canada. I'm from Canada originally too, now in San Francisco. So short answer is yes (whether you intend on coming to the USA after on TN or staying at a top tier company in Canada). Feel free to apply and DM me to make sure it gets looked at!
u/michaelnovati replied ·
This is a good overview of the interview, a senior Reddit engineer wrote for Formation: https://formation.dev/blog/how-to-prepare-for-a-system-design-interview-and-pass-it/
Disclosure: I am co-founder of Formation, but sharing this as a genuinely good resource.
Opinions on Formation Fellowship (bootcamp-like program) · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hi! We just have some base comp + stock averages we computed last year on our website and no other statistics. We've been discussing how to publish outcomes though and if you have suggestions on numbers, would love to hear!
To reiterate our purpose: we work with you as long as it takes, full force, until you hit your goal and are happy with the outcome. Period. So at the end of the day, if you sign up, put in the work and you have the time, you will get an outcome you are happy with. We won't accept people that have goals too narrow or who we don't think we can help achieve their goals in a reasonable amount of time.
If we were to invest in making a robust report of statistics and outcomes we have a lot to think about. The guiding principles are:
1. We want to be fair and unbiased in reporting outcomes. Far too many programs throw around cherry picked numbers.
2. We want to ensure the…
which bootcamps are best? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I totally agree there are a lot of bootcamps taking advantage and misleading people. I don't think ALL are not to be trusted entirely. Some of them are non-profits, like Ada Academy in Seattle.
One counter point to "they are a business". So if a person completing any program that helps them transition to a new job paying $X more. Then there is value created by the transition. $X PER YEAR adds up to a lot, and it makes sense for a business to get a cut of that value that is created. I 100000% agree some bootcamps are not good intentioned, but in THEORY, I don't think a business making some money while you make a lot more money is bad if it truly works at generating that value for you.
Any wisdom and tips for AWS exam assessments. · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Yeah let me know if you have questions or DM me a LinkedIn and I can see if it would be a good fit for you.
Any wisdom and tips for AWS exam assessments. · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Yeah you just have to use a different email address, but don't memorize solutions or anything, try to do it fresh!
Hackreactor vs Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
I haven't attended either, I've coached and mentored alumni from both, either right after or later in their careers.
I hope you get other responses answering your specific questions but just want to pre-emptively discuss outcomes because in the past people have said for similar questions 'Codesmith has the best outcomes choose Codesmith'.
First, will put the best numbers at flagship locations for both.
Codesmith (H2 2020): New York median salary $120,000, 80.2% placed within 180 days (CIRR)
HackReactor (H1 2021): San Francisco median salary $107,500, 73% placed within 180 days (self reported audited)
HackReactor has a slightly lower bar to entry so more people drop out.
I believe both have people with experience attend, but a Codesmith exec reported about "a third" of people at Codesmith have a CS degree or work experience or another bootcamp (source Course Report interview with…
Any wisdom and tips for AWS exam assessments. · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
This is going to sounds like I'm plugging my company, but try out our (free, just put in email address) assessment if you haven't already [https://formation.dev/join/assessment](https://formation.dev/join/assessment). If you score over 1400 - 1500 you are in good shape for random stuff thrown at you.
Keep practicing in their environment as well to make sure it doesn't trip you up.
Recently got accepted into the July 11 LA cohort for Codesmith! Thank you!! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Congrats!
which bootcamps are best? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Ok great, Codesmith is good for people who are more advanced in their journey so I would probably look at prep before going there. I would suggest doing some more intense self teaching or doing a free or cheap bootcamp prep course (freeCodeCamp, App Academy Open, Codesmith CSX, CSPrep, etc...) to test the waters first before committing to a bootcamp. Most bootcamps do full stack, but lean front end.
How do RSUs and TC packages work? · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Some more comments to complicated things even more. At top tier companies, it's quite complicated. I don't have time to write a full guide to RSU but some things to consider:
1. Not all companies have the classic 4 year / 1 year cliff. Amazon is a big one that does NOT, Google does NOT, and some companies are starting to do 1 year grants that a issued every year based on performance.
2. A lot of these companies will do performance related bonuses and refresher RSU grants, which will vary so much with performance. At Facebook, the range can be 0 to 3X multiplier of your bonuses based on your performance. This difference makes stressing over thousands of dollars in TC large irrelevant.
3. The dollar value quoted is usually converted fairly into a number of shares based on some weighted average of the stock price around when you started. So the value when VESTED can be different from the e…
which bootcamps are best? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
This question gets asked often and as usual there's no simple answer as it depends on you. How much experience do you have? What stack do you want to work in? What are your goals (a job as a SWE, a job in another field, to learn) and what type of company do you want to join?
You can narrow your search pretty quickly to a handful of consistently well reviewed bootcamps, but there might be smaller bootcamps - or other things other than a bootcamp - that might be ideal for you depending on the above.
Without knowing the answers to the questions above though you can't really narrow it down as different bootcamps do different things for different people.
Bootcamp advice · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I can share my answer to this. Context, I did NOT do a bootcamp, I did traditional CS and have been working in the industry for 13 years since graduating (first 8 years at FB). However, I now work with a lot of people from a lot of different bootcamps a year or two into their careers to help them level up to top tier roles.
So a few controversial points:
1. Outcomes are hard to judge and often skewed. The reports people produce are a good starting point to narrow down the handful of bootcamps with better results. But there's a lot of reading between the lines. A Codesmith executive in a Course Report video about two years ago that about 30% of people have a CS degree or prior experience 1. (not sure if this is still the case), and their median salary is one of the highest. But people tend to have more experience going in, so the results for people with no experience might be different…
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hi! Behavioral interviews are a tough one to give advice on because they depend a lot on your company's goals and what they are looking for in the interview.
For example, at Facebook the behavioral portion was aiming to measure:
1. Scope of responsibility in past job. This is important for determining someone's level. Trying to ask questions so you can compare their previous responsibilities to the different levels at Facebook and pattern match.
2. Past performance. I don't remember if Facebook explicitly trains for this, but I like to try to guage how the person was performing in their last job in some kind of measurements. Like performance ratings, relative performance to peers, awards at previous job that we're rare, etc...
3. Values alignment. When I was at Facebook, the values we're things like 'move fast and break things', and 'nothing is someone else's problem'. I would ask abo…
What do you say when on when they ask you "tell me about yourself"? · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Simplest thing to do in one sentence: keep it short, plant 2 to 3 seeds for things you are ready to talk more about let the interviewer choose the path interesting to them.
I am thinking about Nucamp · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Sorry, that wasn’t meant as an attack on Nucamp. Udacity Nanodegrees are about $2000 and have mentor code reviews, but my point was Nucamp is probably better than those. I shouldn’t have said Udemy in the same sentence. They compete with Udemy by offering similar level of material but with actual human support, and human support is expensive, so $2000 versus $50 might also make sense.
+1 for self study more :D
Self taught devs - how long did it take you to make it to big tech? · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
I work with a lot of people to break into big tech, specially top tier companies.
We have a small number of self-taught developers who we have helped land top tier roles specifically. At Formation.dev , if you have a decent starting point at DS&A, we would probably work with you for 6 to 9 months to be FAANG-ready... that's the range of the people self-taught people we have worked with.
I am thinking about Nucamp · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I do actually think NuCamp is more competitive to Udemy and Udacity. Their materials are almost all hands off except for the Saturday sessions. And many of their instructors are kind of like TAs at a bootcamp. So I think positioning it as a "Udacity with more hands-on support" isn't a bad position given the cost.
\+1 if you want to go to Codesmith or a better bootcamp to do their in-house prep first instead of a separate bootcamp.
I am thinking about Nucamp · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Yeah I do think their bar for instructors is fairly low (some have no experience at all) and they rely on feedback to quickly remove instructors not at the bar.
A problem amongst a lot of bootcamps, is when you start from zero, you don't really know what's good and what's bad. Like maybe an instructor is great at explaining for loops, but you might not realize how much more you have to learn.
"You should be making $300k+" – sorting fact from fiction · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited
I train engineers and help them get into top tier companies as my job and often see people making $300K+ yes, it's true, it's not always FAANG, and people with 1 YOE to 10 YOE are making this compensation.
A typical formula for a mid level engineer might be $160K base, $75K signing bonus first year, 15% base performance bonus, and $40K a year of RSUs at the current stock price over 4 years. See this: [https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-alphabet-meta-and-other-s-p-500-firms-paid-workers-last-year-11654084801](https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-alphabet-meta-and-other-s-p-500-firms-paid-workers-last-year-11654084801)
The keys to this level of compensation are:
1. Big companies with public stock and lots of cash (not necessarily only FAANG)
2. Large signing bonuses. They only last 1 year, and sometimes are over 2 years.
3. The performance bonus can multiply from the base and can go much hi…
Is there a way I can become a FullStack Developer in a month and get a job? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Hmm, agree with /u/dowcet that a month is fairly fast. You would have to start interviewing in a week or two.
That said, it sounds like you might already be a generalist engineer with that breadth of experience.
What are your goals? If you want to work at a top tier company, you’ll have to brush up on data structure and algorithms and you’ll need to learn some system design concepts since you have so much experience.
If you want to get your foot in the door at any company, you might have a good background for working at a smaller startup. Your experiences are perfect for filling in gaps the startup might have, and their product might be small scale enough that you can learn a lot on the job. I would not become the founding or first engineer anywhere, but rather say joining a team of 3 to 5 engineers minimum.
Another pathway is looking for a support eng role that has room to convert…
Sr. engineer role with 1 yr of coding experience · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied ·
You should always let companies level you based on their processes and apply the titles they see fit. Titles themselves don't have much meaning and the internal level and expectations is much more important. There is some consistency amongst the FAANG/top-tier companies, but even then it varies.
That said, of the responsibilities at the level at that company are much higher than you think is appropriate it might be worth talking to your manager about it. It can potentially be a problem. I usually advise people to be under-leveled and overdeliver rather than over-leveled and underdeliver.
If you are underperforming, you likely won't get fired immediately, but rather be put on a performance improvement plan. But if the expectation gap is just too wide then you might eventually get fired.
Feel free to DM the company and I can give more advice, sorry if this is a big broad.
CIRR results coming soon · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Hi all, does anyone know if this is still happening?
How is Snap doing? · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Stay positive but ready. It's devastating to have an offer you got months ago rescinded, just when you thought your professional life was beginning, so being a bit emotionally ready will help.
There are a lot of companies hiring right now (I help train people and literally see the offers rolling in from top tier companies despite other companies being affected).
I also am a bit thrown off by the last minute nature of Coinbase and Twitter's offer rescinds.... these companies definitely would want to give you the most heads up possible, so if it DOES happen, hopefully it won't be last minute too.
How is Snap doing? · r/cscareerquestions
u/michaelnovati replied ·
If you got the offer AFTER they released there lowered guidance and hiring slowdown remarks I would say that's probably safer. Things change week to week right now.
A lot of the guidance and headlines are to help ease the stock price in the event that uncertain economy conditions result in a big drop in profits... rather than have a surprise drop that tanks the stock. It makes it look like the company was on top of things and run diligently.
If this is a new grad offer I would be cautious. It can't hurt to keep interviewing if you are doing nothing else.
Should I even bother doing the coding assessment for SDE2 position at Amazon? · r/leetcode
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I would try. It's good practice. You typically don't need to solve "hard" problems to pass at most companies. Or if you are given hard problems, you aren't expected to 100% solve them.
We have a test you can use for practice and benchmarking if you haven't done an OA recently and want practice first: [https://formation.dev/join/assessment](https://formation.dev/join/assessment) (DISCLOSURE: I'm co-founder, I do coaching and training, I'm sharing this to genuinely help you benchmark before doing this OA and not soliciting anything)
It's a 45 min CodeSignal and you'll get your score after to get a sense of if you are ready.
Has this ever happened to anyone? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I can speak from the other side. [Formation.dev](https://Formation.dev) (I am co-founder) isn't a bootcamp but do turn people down who want to join us (sometimes really really want to join).
The typical reasons we have turned people down are:
1. Misalignment of goals. If you want something out of your training that we don't think we can achieve with you, we won't move forward. We would only take someone we are confident we can help achieve a top tier company role, because we commit to training you all the way until get a happy result.
2. Not at the technical skill bar. We have a fair technical assessment to help us assess starting data structure and algorithms skills, if you aren't at the bar, or we don't see enough potential, then we will typically not move forward. In this case, we would want you to join in the future though if you can get to the skill bar necessary.
3. Other reason…
I’m scared of ending this bootcamp and not being able to find a job afterwards. Any way to make sure this doesn’t happen? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Unfortunately you should never go to a bootcamp excepting a job after. Some programs offer "guarantees" but if you pour all your time and energy into learning and don't succeed, the cost might not have been worth the time.
The more experience you have going INTO the bootcamp, the more likely you are to get a good job.
But some things you can do to increase your "luck":
1. Apply to as many jobs as humanly possible
2. Look for small companies, startups, etc... to get a foot in the door that might not have job postings
3. Always be polite and professional and enthusiastically connect with as many people as you can on LinkedIn.
4. Keep doing serious projects throughout and after "graduation" and try to commit to one larger one that you are passionate about for many months rather than short term small projects to boost your resume.
5. Practice data structures and algorithms. No bootcamp t…