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Opinions on Formation Fellowship (bootcamp-like program)

r/cscareerquestions

u/AHighFifth wrote (the comment Michael replied to):

Do you guys publish any statistics on participant outcomes?

u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hi! We just have some base comp + stock averages we computed last year on our website and no other statistics. We've been discussing how to publish outcomes though and if you have suggestions on numbers, would love to hear! To reiterate our purpose: we work with you as long as it takes, full force, until you hit your goal and are happy with the outcome. Period. So at the end of the day, if you sign up, put in the work and you have the time, you will get an outcome you are happy with. We won't accept people that have goals too narrow or who we don't think we can help achieve their goals in a reasonable amount of time. If we were to invest in making a robust report of statistics and outcomes we have a lot to think about. The guiding principles are: 1. We want to be fair and unbiased in reporting outcomes. Far too many programs throw around cherry picked numbers. 2. We want to ensure the identity of Formation Fellows is not revealed by outcomes. Privacy is important and respected. So some of our thoughts, being very transparent here, so it's a bit long: 1. Everyone at Formation is here for a different length of time, does different combinations of things, has different goals, so it's very hard to publish top level numbers without more context. Our current big number on our website is trying to focus on the increase in compensation for people that had an existing job, to try to capture the relative nature of the outcomes. To gives some examples of the "context", someone might get $300K+ offers after 2 months at Formation, tripling their income, at their 2nd choice FAANG companies but they are extremely satisfied with the outcome, would recommend Formation to everyone. Or someone else might have struggled to get a job from a bootcamp for 2 years, they wanted to make $80K as a goal, after 6 months at Formation, we helped them get an offer at great company after negotiation of $115K base + stock. Person is thrilled with this outcome and would recommend to everyone. It's really hard to capture these stories in high level 2. The last 20 accepted offers in order are: Google (pending), Amazon, Amazon, <startup, fin-tech>, Bill.com, Microsoft, Amazon, Bloomberg, <startup, fin-tech>, Front, Workday, Neato, Microsoft, <startup, crypto>, Jelly Fish, GitHub, Microsoft. (Startups are < 100 employees so masked to protect identity). We are thinking about potentially publishing the list of companies people are getting hired at unfiltered because we think that presents a fair raw log that protects identities and shows the actual places people are going, instead of people thinking we are cherry picking results. Another similar example of context being important though is we might have someone from an agency -> Workday, and someone else go from Workday -> Amazon. Both being fantastic outcomes for the people individually. 3. Compensation and salaries are quite complicated because our Fellows are receiving equity with varying vesting times, signing bonuses possibly with weird timing, and performance bonuses with ranges. I know people on Blind throw around TC numbers all over the place for specific companies, but it's very hard to summarize that for all companies at once. For example, a typical E4 Meta offer might have a $170K base, $200K of stock vesting equally over four years, $75K signing bonus, and 15% bonus target. You can crunch the numbers to get to $320K TC for first year. Now that signing bonus is just one year, and your annual bonus can be anywhere from 0 to 45% depending on performance. Now an Amazon SDEII offer might look like $180K base, $100K of stock (weird unequal vesting with most vesting in year 3/4), $100K signing bonus in year 1 and $75K signing bonus in year 2. So this has about a $290K Tc for first year. But you can't compare that to the Facebook offer without looking at the specifics here side by side, making a spreadsheet, etc... So to try and summarize all the offers from all companies and properly capture them is a challenge we have to spend some time on. 4. Satisfaction. A way to capture a bunch of complexities is higher lever satisfaction ratings, or if people would recommend Formation to a friend. All of this said if you have any specific asks I can try to see if we can quickly compute the statistic AND if won't reveal anyone's personal identity or information.