Interview Kickstart is based in India and might be a good option. I'm the Co-Founder of Formation.dev and IK is a major competitor but we don't support many international engineers and IK might be a better option for you at this point in time.
No coding bootcamp places people at MAANG regularly. Codesmith is one of the best bootcamps and they have 10X the number of people ever who have gone there than we do but have about the same number of MAANG placements (excluding contractor jobs) in absolute number... so I think if that's your dream, go with the career accelerator and interview prep bucket.
Yeah as someone said below, this is a strong TRUE mid-level FAANG offer, or low end senior FAANG offer.
Their previous salary was $145K already, so they were probably someone who didn't really need to go to Codesmith.
I've worked with a couple people in this bucket who dropped out in their first week because they really needed something else (like Formation.dev - disclosure, co-founder, Pathrise, Interview Kickstart) and not a bootcamp. but didn't know those existed.
A bootcamp probably doesn't make sense, I think the easiest thing to do would be to try to transition more into SWE at your current company. Try to meet SWE managers and see if you can get a shot at a lower level SWE role.
I would also look at "career accelerators": [Formation.dev](https://Formation.dev) (disclosure: co-founder), Interview Kickstart, Pathrise. These are intended to help you level up your career rather than carerr change entirely. If your gaps are too large for these programs, then I would CONSIDER a bootcamp, but really transitioning in your own company and being supported doing that, is ideal.
Good question:
1. Formation has a frontend track. I need to emphasize that it's not educational and people with no frontend experience find it not good for them. It's the equivalent of how if you can do LC Easy problems then these DS&A programs are good, but not if you haven't done any at all. Our frontend is good for people who know frontend and want practice, not for people with no frontend experience. It's JS/HTML/CS/React
2. Interview Kickstart has a similar view as Formation, where you can do a short amount of practice on frontend but the focus is still classic DS&A. Interview Kickstart also has a lot more modules you can do like Data Science and ML
3. Outco: I don't think they have frontend
4. Pathrise: no frontend
5. Coachable: no frontend
6. Scaler: has frontend and projects in their longer program
I can't speak to IK, but Formation basically covers 14ish interview types, so we…
Hi, full disclosure, I'm the co-founder of Formation which is a competitor for Interview Kickstart, but I'm also a daily active member and contributor to the community and try to give good, fair, advice.
So first off, if you want to consider the "career accelerator" bucket of programs these are the competitors. Note that each one is very, very different but they all focus on the job hunt process rather than building new practical skills:
1. Formation: focuses on fundamental problem solving/DSA/SD/behaviorals, adaptive platform to move you through skills efficiently, small group sessions (2 - 8 people), dedicated support team, unlimited targeted mock interviews with senior top tier engineers as you start job hunting, senior/staff/principal FAANG-level mentors. Most 360 coverage program of the group.
2. Interview Kickstart: fixed curriculum/structured program with larger lectures and mor…
The way Codesmith teaches LC I think is not correct and reinforces the LC-mentality.
Disclosure: I'm super biased here because I started a program to practice fundamental problem solving abilities and how to use that to solve LC problems and make you a better engineer. So I'm VERY OPINIONATED ON THIS!
But just doing hack hours where your friends tell you if a problem is right or not is missing the point entirely. If you learn how to solve DS&A problems the right way, then you can apply that to solving any interview-setting problem.
This is true for big companies but it's not new. Most big companies do not hire directly out of bootcamps and I can tell you why from my experience 8 years at FB as a principal engineer!
So first off, where do these applications go:
1. Apprenticeships! Big companies often have apprenticeships/emergent talent/etc... programs for bootcamp grads who come from diverse backgrounds.
2. During the boom times, Amazon would interview anyone with an online assessment and passing that would usually get you an interview. So people with very little SWE experience but who had good professional experience to talk about in a behavioral interview, could pass. Google briefly was talking to bootcamp grads via a number of contractor recruiters at Randstad but you had to get connected through them directly.
Second, why don't big companies want to hire bootcamp grads. Unfortunately they DID in the past. B…
I'm intimately familiar with month to month and week to week trends and how many Codesmith people graduate each month and when their 6 month clock starts and ends and then even account for fellows, whose clocks are delayed for 3 months (or however long their fellow contract ends up being)
I know for a fact that outcomes for CIRR H2 2022 are significantly worse than H1 2022, about 15 to 20% worse, being generous.
July through August 2022 saw strong hiring at Amazon and Capital One, whom were filling out remaining headcount.
The market was terrible in November and December as headcount ran out, freezes continued, and people decided to wait until next year.
Because of the cadence, which you understand as well, that means only one or two cohorts from each coast were impacted super bad and had terrible placement rates that were somewhat cancelled out by the stronger earlier ones.
Januar…
You do have to interview but we're working with Waymo recruiters and engineers to prepare you for their interviews specifically and you should expect to have interaction with people at Waymo in different ways along the way. If you do everything you need to at Formation then you should get an interview (assuming the market or hiring doesn't change unexpectedly) and you should be extremely prepare for these interviews.
If you don't pass the interviews you'll also be super setup for other companies that have similar interview styles... you are getting approximately $13,500 of value from Formation paid for by Waymo if you are selected for the program.
You on the fence of if a top tier bootcamp or career accelerator is right (or nothing at all!). I would consider Codesmith yeah. It's not guaranteed to get you a job but if you feel really stuck it might be worth it for the community. You'll highly likely be coding circles around everyone but their curriculum isn't what you are paying for - anyone can get the material and it's entirely taught by former graduates.
Also consider career accelerators and see if they are right for you - they tend to be job hunt and interview focused instead of learning focused.
Formation.dev (I'm a co-founder) (adaptive learning efficient practice, small group sessions, mock interviews with senior/staff engineers, support until you get a job)
Interview Kickstart (structured DS&A practice, lecture style sessions, mock interviews with senior engineers)
Interviewing.io (a la cart interview practice, or pay f…
Hi, I respect all opinions and I'm sorry your experience wasn't what you expected. Hopefully you feel like leaving was the right thing and left on a fair note. While the majority of people successfully get placed (on no guaranteed timeframe) and we try to accept people who are a good fit for what we do, we very much understand Formation is not for everyone and support people leaving who aren't a good fit.
I want to correct some inaccuracies though for others reading this and I hope my response is very fair and transparent.
1. I agree Formation is very intense and I discourage a lot of people from joining who don't seem on the same page. I'm sorry you might have joined with the wrong expectations. You can change your workload and schedule week to week up or down as things change and no other program I've seen allow this but it might be that even with that, we couldn't support your needs…
Hi, Formation isn't a good replacement for a bootcamp for most people. There have been a very small number of people that have done this but the reasons have to be right and we usually reject people without some kind of relevant experience. For example, self taught but contributions to large open source projects might be a good fit.
I don't recommend doing it in this market because almost all of these cases were people who got top tier entry level roles and sometimes from new grad headcount, and the market has tanked for entry level and new grad roles. The same struggles apply with going to a bootcamp, but I'm not also not advising doing Formstion right now in this bucket, UNLESS you have a job already and are doing it part time over a long period of time.
Second giant note: ISAs are great for the reasons you mentioned. But if you end up being one of the minority percentage that give…
Look at Career Accelerators like Formation.dev (disclosure: I'm the cofounder of this program), Interview Kickstart, Pathrise, Coachable, Outco. These programs are expensive and might not be for you, but if you are looking at bootcamps you should also consider these.
These kinds of programs aim to prepare you for interviews and fill in various weaknesses you might have in levelling up. They all work well for highly motivated people by acting like a coach to get you across the line. Most of these programs are also part time and focus on people currently working.
If you are really far behind it's possible an advanced bootcamp like Codesmith could help. A bootcamp is a huge time commitment and somewhat of a waste if you are already a competent coder.
So for a lot of the people I've worked with - they are awesome, hardworking, driven, and those qualities lead to their success on the job. In some cases that gets misdirected to something Codesmith did - and perhaps confidence-building-as-a-product is the product you are paying for with Codesmith - and it's worth it.
That problem you talk about is a fantastic problem to work through and great in an interview, 100%. That doesn't mean it's "production level" though. I had several notable personal projects I talked about in interviews that were super impressive but the code was not "production quality code". One "project" we actually incorporated a company and it was featured on TechCrunch - and even the code was not "production level", it was a group project with tens of thousands of lines of code, had a ton of fascinating product, growth, and technical problems, and it got me a job at Fa…
There are other ways yeah :D.
Ada Developer's Academy is free, 4 months of training and 5 month internship with their partners. They had to scale back because of the economy but it's been consistently reliable for getting people into the industry.
I also know several people who are self taught with a tech-adjacent background (other engineering degree or math degree) - focusing on LeetCode and gunning for entry level FAANG roles and got those jobs too (e.g. Amazon and Palantir). **I would not advise this at all right now because of the market** but it's a path that can work for the right people.
Apprenticeships are another pathway - seen several people with no experience get Apprenticeships (e.g. via OnRamp) that led to good jobs.
There's no one size fits all here and the hard part is figuring out what to even do! Too many people do a whack-a-mole approach where they start everything…
I have some insight on this as an outsider that has worked with a few dozen Codesmith alumni later on in their careers or immediately after Codesmith.
This is going to be a polarizing comment thread for sure.
PROS:
- many alumni that get jobs credit Codesmith's job hunt support for helping them. they typically site: mock interviews, weekly office hours, their cohort mates emotional support making it feel less lonely, and Eric Kirsten's negotiation help giving them confidence to ask for $150K offers when they otherwise wouldn't
- compared to many other bootcamps - which hardly do anything post graduation, I think Codesmith does a lot more than most
- they give you "lifetime support", which means you can always go back and ask questions in the future, get resume reviews or even do peer mock interviews anytime in the future and some people have found that useful
- one of the most powerfu…
Thanks for sharing thoughts!
Placement times range from 3 weeks to 18 months and counting.
One of the main reasons we don't publish time to placement data right now is because people don't understand what Formation "is" yet and we don't want people to look at numbers that would compare us to a bootcamp or even our competitors, like Interview Kickstart, Outco, Pathrise, Coachable, Scaler (all of which don't publish much data).
Your program is truly unique to you, the person who is still here after 18 months has done hundreds of sessions, almost a thousand tasks, a few dozen mock interviews, and keeps chugging along. Some people even do contracts and part time jobs and ramp down Formation and then ramp back up again when the contract ends (I can't comment on specific people, but it might contribute to the people who have been here longer).
I completely agree that someone looking at Fo…
I lot of bootcamps incorporate DS&A practice into the programs, AA, Hack Reactor, Codesmith, for starters.
That said, I don't know of any bootcamp that actually teaches fundamental problem solving with DS&As. Codesmith spends under a week on all the theoretical concepts for DS&As and even though they assign you a problem a DAY they don't actually teach you how to solve them. I've worked with numerous Codesmith grads that can flail through a LC Medium problem but wouldn't pass a Facebook-level interview because the thought process demonstrates a lack of deeper understanding.
I'm the co-founder of Formation, which is a program for experienced engineers that focuses on DS&A, SD, and behaviorals, and it typically takes most people - including graduates of HR and CS - 2 to 5 more months of pure DS&A focus to get to the top tier bar.
So it takes the entire length of time you spent in a boot…
I see people interviewing at all stages of companies at Formation (disclosure: co-founder) and they haven't changed much recently. Larger companies that have complex proprietary technology continue to do generic, stack-agnostic, problem solving (i.e. "Leetcode") problems. Smaller and less tech-focused companies that expect you to show up on day 1 and contribute in a more generic stack continue to have more practical questions, realistic work.
I wouldn't recommend a bootcamp right now. Codesmith is a program that markets to CS grads and people with more experience and even their placements rates as reported from recent alumni have dropped drastically since last reported.
I have a few recommendations to look at... what works for you is ultimately a personal choice, but just things to consider:
1. Consider career accelerators: Formation.dev (disclosure: co-founder), Interview Kickstart, Outco, Pathrise, Coachable.dev, Scaler, are main ones to look at. These are all very different programs but they focus on fine tuning and enhancing existing skills and focus entirely on the job hunt. They pick up where bootcamps end basically.
2. Consider doing volunteer work at places like Hack4LA, or other Code For America branches. This is a way to get more realistic "volunteer work experience" that is a notch above a group project that you…
If you leave the program early without a job because you, for example, no longer want to job hunt, or have a major unexpected life change, or you can't commit to the program anymore, or you just don't like it and want to leave early, then you pay a pro-rated amount depending on how long you were in the program.
If you get a job, or are actively interviewing early on, you get access to our full arsenal of support, including 1-1 mock interviews targeted to the types you need (if we support it: i.e. algos, live coding, system design, behavioral, hiring manager, and more) and negotiation support, and you have to pay the full price.
At the end of the day, if the vast majority of people don't get a "return on investment" from Formation than the program doesn't work, so we want to make sure you get your money back and more in value - whether that is cash value in your negotiations, a permanen…
Hey, I'm the co-founder of Formation!
So there are a range of competitors you can look at. Honestly the session structure where dynamically create your ideal schedule every week is completely unique so if that is the most appealing thing, I haven't seen another program offer that, but if you want to have structured practice here are some other options:
Interview Kickstart: I think it's similarly priced but a few thousand dollars less. More structured program, not unlimited support
Outco.io: shorter, peer mock interviews, cheaper, has unlimited support
Pathrise: focuses almost exclusively on the job hunt side and probably isn't a good option for you, it's also generally much more expensive.
Coachable: a very small program run by a few people but focuses on DS&A, more individual practice and less community vibe. Also similarly priced or more than Formation.
Interviewing.io: pay as yo…
This summary is fairly consistent with what I hear from most people as well, that overall Codesmith is a great program, very consistent, and the community is fantastic.
The big change is the job market since 2020 is the job market.
In the time period of 2021 and into 2022, people were getting like 150K jobs (which you can see in CIRR) at Amazon and Capital One by using exaggerated resumes (or have recruiters proactively reach out on LinkedIn without even expanding to see "Developed under OS Labs") to pass recruiter screens + practicing Leetcode on their own and with each other.
These people then were all over this subreddit in mid to late 2022 created an impression that Codesmith was a magical place with a magical formula and getting in will be the ticket to a $150K job. No one was explaining HOW it happened, just "Codesmith is the best", "Codesmith changes your life", and a bunch of…
\[EDIT: commenter explained the original comment was not about bootcamp grads but master's grads, and I re-worded/removed things that are also now out of context, and sorry for misunderstanding the context!\]
Most people from bootcamps aren't making $200K in their first year. I've seen a Harvard Math grad have a path like this for example, or a UT Austin Civil Eng grad, but these people have some kind of natural abilities and work ethic that made it happen.
A very small number of people will, and those people will probably be making $1M a year in 5 to 10 years, like maybe yourself /u/Evening_Message5556 (which I would say based on my interactions with you :) )
That said at Bloomberg and Amazon, you can make $200K TC (e.g. $160K base + $40K+ bonus) by crushing mostly DS&A interviews and passing behavioral interviews. One of the key pieces is the behavioral interview and you coming acr…
Looking into a career accelerator. I'm the co-founder of Formation.dev, and other ones you should look into are Interview Kickstart, Pathrise, Outco, Scaler, Coachable. All of these programs are very different day-to-day and focus on different things, but they help people with step 2, 3, 4, etc... of your career.
If you have a solid year of experience, you probably aren't missing any practical skills for big tech. Big tech expects to train you in their own stacks, which are so complicated even experienced engineers need training.
You are probably missing the DS&A fundamentals, interview practice, system design, and behavioral training to talk about your 1 YOE effectively, and these are the things the above work on \^\^\^\^
If you can't stomach another $5 to $15K on a new program, then consider a la carte Interviewing.io sessions. If you are super lost, try to leverage your network, D…
I can only give second hand information from first hand students, employees, former employees, so take it with a grain of salt.
The reasoning provided, summarized across a few people with similar versions - all being told this from the same employee, was that 'entry level jobs at FAANG are full of grunt work and easy problems that you are overqualified to solve' and that 'mid level and senior jobs involve hard problems that Codesmith is training you to solve'
Even if you believe the argument (which I strongly do not), I don't know why that means that your career though is hindered by it.
I've heard from numerous people over a year or so now that: the outcomes advisor's negotiation strategy is 'just ask for $150K, only a mid level engineer would ask for that so it help legitimize your position' and from the head of instruction: 'the OSP projects are mid level work equivalent to severa…
It doesn't seem much different than the USA market, but we have seen fewer Canadian interviews. The big tech companies have classic DSA and the smaller companies have very varying processes (some practical, some DSA, some live programming, etc...).
Side note more broadly for other readers as well, even though we do a lot of DSA, the goal is to train you how to problem solve an interview settings and people who fully buy into this tend to find the training really valuable for every single kind of interview. I think the OP and some of the comments that focus too much on DSA are also people who haven't been through the entire program and job support people get during real interviews. Like If you have a practical interview at Square coming up you can do a mock practical interview with a senior Reddit engineer or Google engineer, or Block engineer.
Making you grind Leetcode like that is an inefficient use of time. The fact that you feel barely able to breathe means you aren't absorbing the materials and it's even more of a waste of time.
There's nothing special about Leetcode problems, anyone can just do them for free online, it's about HOW you do them that you should expect a program or bootcamp to help you with.
At Formation we train you to learn problem solving methods rather than raw grinding LC. We have hundreds of years of FAANG engineering experience in our ranks and this is an almost universal recommendation.
This is a simplified version of the approach we work through and every mentor problem solving session you work through these steps and get feedback: [https://formation.dev/blog/the-engineering-method/](https://formation.dev/blog/the-engineering-method/)
Even though a method like this sounds simple, it's really hard…
I would suggest looking at career accelerators if you are considering another bootcamp and it's probably more inline with what you need. I'm the co-founder of Formation.dev, which is an option that focuses more on technical skills gaps and job hunting. Other options to look at are Pathrise, Outco, Coachable, Interview Kickstart, Scaler and each one is different cost, time commitment, style.
Hi, we aren't able to help with DE specific areas or with DE specific domain knowledge. We have a number of mentors who are strong in frontend, iOS and Android, so we do one off mock interviews with them if you are in those areas, but we don't have anyone to do that for DE right now (March 2023).
We have very minimal bare bones SQL practice (\~5, 2-3 hour long practice assessments of varying difficulty, not hooked up to our training algorithms) but we constantly update and change things (which as OP posted can be a bit hectic as things do change frequently - all in an attempt to get you the best resources, practice, etc...) and more basic SQL skills have been creeping into more SWE interviews lately, but nothing formally launched.
We have strong systems design for a junior, mid-level, and low senior engineer, which is useful for full stack, generalist, backend, infra, dev-ops, sre, an…
u/ludofourrage might have some comments about NuCamp, which relies on satisfaction and effectiveness ratings over placements outcomes.
I feel pretty strongly that bootcamps shouldn't be judged by job outcomes and should be judged by education quality value for the cost. It will improve the quality of education, which is what most of the employees at the bootcamp work on.
CIRR encourages bootcamps to be judged purely by placement rates and salaries and I think that not in a great direction. I think it's a piece of the puzzle and useful information, but not the sole way to judge a program.
I also think bootcamps play a part in this by having the "wall of logos" on their websites and advertising the placements in bold. Stanford doesn't have salary numbers of graduates on their homepage in giant numbers like BloomTech does.
I don't think career accelerators like Pathrise, Outco, Intervie…
If you work in the position for long enough and perform well, you can apply for a super competitive internal program where Amazon will pay to put you through a bootcamp-like experience, that has a guaranteed internship, and interview to convert. It was extremely competitive and hard to get into.
One of my co-workers spouse worked on this program and a Fellow at Formation went through this program.
You can read more about it here: [https://amazontechnicalacademy.com/amazon-employees](https://amazontechnicalacademy.com/amazon-employees)
Hi, yeah it depends a lot on you and what you need to work on! Some things to keep in mind if you are targeting a larger top tier company
1. Practice a problem solving method instead of practicing just LC problems. A problem solving method will help you get through interviews when you haven't seen the problem before, and removes the need to solve hundreds of LC problems.
2. \+1 to practicing out loud for real - one of the biggest mistakes people make is thinking they know how to solve problems because they passed on LC while doing it silently by themselves and that they don't truly understand. As you said, [pramp.com](https://pramp.com) is an option. A wider range of options (cost and effectiveness-wise) are finding peers in a Discord server, [Interviewing.io](https://Interviewing.io), or a more intense career accelerator like [Formation.dev](https://Formation.dev), Interview Kickstart,…
We don't force you to take any job and if you want to work at FAANG, **no one is kicking you out and I challenge you to leave Formation and find another path to FAANG right now.** We never promised how long it would take, and we work with people as long as they want as long as they do their part and keep intending to job hunt.
We've had a jump in placements in the past three weeks and people gave very high satisfaction ratings despite more people choosing to take non-FAANG jobs, like Chegg, Citibank, and others. For example, one person chose to change their target away from FAANG companies and was thrilled with how Formation supported them doing that and thrilled with the job they received.
I think this is very fair and is a top reason people come to Formation. If you really want to work at FAANG, you can come to Formation, don't expect to get a job on any timeframe (which I believe we…
>formation
/u/No-Leopard-1563
Hi, yeah I'm the co-founder and lead engineer at Formation, ex-FB (intern -> principal, over 8 years).
Formation's model isn't to have a dedicated 1-1 mentor. Instead you'll work with dozens of senior/staff/principal/managers/directors at top tier companies in dozens of small group (3-6 people), or 1-1 mock interview, sessions. You might work with some people more than others, but the goal isn't to have a long term dedicated mentor and rather get a larger volume of feedback from a wide range of people. If you do investments, it's kind of like buying into index funds versus putting all your money into one stock/crypto/etc... Any individual stocks in the portfolio might do better or worse, but over a long period of time, you get reliable return on investment.
It is also a large commitment with the current Fellowship we have. If you do it part time p…
Hi there, I'm happy to give more info and my thoughts. Ultimately we want you in the right place and if that's not Formation, we're happy. I've responded a lot in other comments that might be useful as well and feel free to message me directly with more info about yourself if you want me to give more personal advice.
First off, we take every piece of feedback seriously, investigate and discuss it, so I don't want to come across as dismissive, but the majority of people have a great experience and recommend us to friends. Not a single person on this thread has responded to our team or reported anonymous/untraceable feedback despite open arms from everyone on the team. In terms of feedback, so far this evening there have been 7 pieces of explicit feedback (i.e. text feedback, supplemental to numerical ratings) given, 6 were glowing positive reviews about the impact the mentor(s) had, 1 wa…
Hi, the application process is similar to the Formation interview process, with an additional requirement to submit a short video talking about yourself.
The benchmarking assessment is similar to normal Formation and is not meant so much as a test to rank people, but as a way to assess your starting point.
It's a combination of practical coding questions (which require little specific DS&A) and multiple choice debugging and knowledge questions which require much more advanced knowledge.
We are not looking for the strongest "leetcoders" at all, but you have to have a good starting point of DS&A and problem solving skills. The biggest advice I give about the benchmarking is to focus on speed, because it's a lot for the time aloted. The assessment is difficult to study for because it's trying to assess your general starting point and if you could cram for a few days and do meaningfully…
Hi! Thanks for sharing your feedback as well. I have some comments:
1. For you specifically, you demonstrated your DS&A are at the bar in only 3 weeks and got to move on and for someone else it might take 3 months. In other programs you get a fixed list of questions or a fixed schedule of classes. I totally accept the argument that another alternative is to not do Formation at all, but for people who are committed to doing a program, I think our model works really well at efficiently getting people to that bar and adding confidence that you are legitimately there.
2. Our mission is to support people from non traditional and underrepresented backgrounds and not all people (in fact, very few) come into Formation having interview-ready level Graphs and DP like you did. We actually get the feedback that Formation is harder than expected much more often than easier. That said, we want to ad…
Thanks for sharing your feedback and opinions about your experience. Regardless of the tougher job market making it harder to get interviews, making sure you feel supported is one of most important internal goals that we constantly monitor with a magnifying glass and I'm sorry that the support you aren't receiving isn't meeting your expectation.
I respect your opinions and won't comment on everything you mentioned that I might personally disagree with. For others reading, I'm going to add some responses to specific statements that I feel will be helpful to clarify.
1. We don't let in everyone who wants to join and we only accept a fraction of people who apply. Acceptance is based on three things: 1. a benchmarking assessment that gauges your starting skill level and has a complex evaluation model that is not akin to "passing a test". 2. your past experience. 3. your goals, timeline,…
PSA: Netflix Formation Program applications opened today! (2024 CS grads in the USA). Sadly, this is not open to bootcamp grads this time around, but any CS students who are considering a bootcamp before graduation might benefit from this program)
Hi friends, Netflix [announced](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/heyjoshuag_formation-activity-7033558750359683072-hGi9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop) the launch of the Netflix Formation Program, a **free program (paid for by Netflix)** for 2024 grads to get rigorous CS fundamentals training and potential interviews with Netflix for entry level SWE roles. This is intense program and is extremely competitive to get into, but if you qualify, check it out!
Now many of you know me well in this community and I champion helping bootcamp grads get great first, second, third jobs. This time around, unfortunately this program is only open…
PSA: Netflix Formation Program applications opened today! (2024 CS grads in the USA)
Hi all, Netflix [announced](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/heyjoshuag_formation-activity-7033558750359683072-hGi9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop) the launch of the Netflix Formation Program and applications are open now through March 5th, 2023. This is a free program (paid for by Netflix) for 2024 grads to get rigorous CS fundamentals training and potential interviews with Netflix for entry level SWE roles. It's an intense program and is extremely competitive to get into, but I wanted to share it with the community so that people interested can check it out!
From the post:
>Netflix has teamed up with Formation to bring rising seniors personalized training and world-class mentorship from the best engineers in the tech industry. This is a **free** **program**, and participants who demonstra…
I've kept a close eye on them but don't know anyone in the USA who has done it yet. It is a well funded Indian company, InterviewBit that launched Scalar. The testimonials on their website all have LinkedIn's attached and every single one of the people are at great companies but located in India as well. The vast majority of people in the sub (I've been here over a year, every day) are looking for USA, Canada, or EU based bootcamps.
It also looks a lot more like Interview Kickstart than a bootcamp. Can you give more info about your background and if Scalar is appropriate for people at the bootcamp level?
If you have a CS degree I would consider a career accelerator in the mix instead of a bootcamp. I'm the co-founder of Formation.dev , which focuses on DS&A and fundamentals (very little hands on project work), and other ones include Outco, Interview Kickstart, Scalar, Pathrise, Coachable. I would look into all of these and see if any are a good fit for you.
Bootcamp-wise, you probably want to look at the Codesmith, Rithm, and Hack Reactor, as bootcamps that work well for people farther along.
\+1 to everyone else, (I'm the co-founder) but [Formation.dev](https://Formation.dev) hits the spot :D, also look seriously at Interview Kickstart, Outco, Scalar, and to some extent Pathrise (which is more job-hunt focused). I'm sure one of these options is what you are looking for and feel free to ping me with more info if you want my thoughts on which is good for your situation.
I'm extremely biased, but you should look into the career accelerator bucket of programs in addition to bootcamps since you have some experience already. These programs are focused on getting you a better next job in the industry, instead of getting your first job in the industry.
Formation.dev is the one I help run, which focuses on filling in skill gaps for people with non traditional backgrounds, targets too tier companies, and works with you for however long it takes to get a job, as long as you do your part. But you should look into Outco, Pathrise, Interview Kickstart, Scalar... each one is very different.
I think your view is too cynical about getting into Amazon and you're trying too hard to game the system with that mentality. I know about the Codesmith Slack channels and Discords where people try to game the system. I know it works for some people and that only makes others double down on the same approach. But please hear me out.
I've worked with a few people, and one in particular super closely, to get into Amazon with zero work experience. We also have a senior manager bar raiser mentor who did a panel discussion a few months ago for us around this topic.
You shouldn't memorize some "stories for their Amazon principles and answer medium leetcode" to get in, you are missing the point and you might not keep your job very long if you get it.
No interview system is perfect, but you'll have an easier time and more successful career trying to:
1. Become a genuinely strong generic prob…
Look at career accelerator style programs. Disclosure: I'm the co-founder at [Formation.dev](https://Formation.dev) but you should also check out Pathrise, Outco, Interview Kickstart, Scalar, and others. I know I'm super bias, but you should genuinely consider this kind of option in addition to considering a bootcamp.
So we actually always wonder like what if you meet a cowoker on Formation or someone you knew from a bootcamp, and at least with colleges and bootcamps that's not uncommon. We genuinely have some people out of bootcamps, but we also have people many years out of bootcamps that TEACH at bootcamps WHILE also at Formation. Because of the way you progress independently week to week, we are trying to put you in sessions with people at your level on a given topic, so you kind of find your pocket of people naturally.
Similarly with mentors, we have Fellows who work at FAANG companies right now, or were laid off and someone from their company might be a mentor at Formation. We also might have a super senior mentor who gets laid off and wants to join Formation as a Fellow because while they are fantastic at coaching the thing they are mentoring, they might need a lot of practice with System Des…
How much coding experience do you have and what kind of experience is it?
If your practical experience on your current job is sufficient to get an entry level job, you might be better off with a career accelerator that helps fill in more fundamental gaps and helps you practice for SWE interviews.
I'm the co-founder of [Formation.dev](https://Formation.dev), and other options are Interview Kickstart, [Outco.io](https://Outco.io), Pathrise, and Scalar.
It's worth looking into them and if you aren't quite far enough along, consider a bootcamp for sure.
Hi!
RE: Update. Things seemed to get worse in October/November, and have since gotten a bit better. Seeing more people getting FAANG interviews again - with generally longer time frames (e.g. scheduling onsites for over a month from now). We've seen mid-level and senior engineers (based on FAANG standards, not Codesmith standards) get hired and get interview more easily. Zero experience people definitely have a harder time with FAANG. We've seen people go to Palantir, Amazon, Bloomberg, but in general having some kind of genuine connection to the company is key. Something about your background that aligns so much better than most other people, that by trying every angle from referrals, to recruiter pings, to networking events, something works to get that interview. Google specifically has hired a few experienced engineers at the L4 level and has slowly resumed some entry level interview…