You sound like the type of person that would have gotten a $100K job in 2021. Unfortunately it's not that time anymore. Even if you don't meet the criteria, you might be the exception case so who am I to judge, but good luck - you'll need it because the drive isn't enough..
Yeah it's very small but they have a few mentors who did Coachable earlier on, legit mentors yeah.
Formation is less 1-1 on demand and we don't have 1-1 on demand technical mentorship. You have 4 dedicated non-technical support members on our team, and you do 1-1 mocks, office hours, but most sessions are 3 to 6 person small group sessions.
Interview Kickstart has even larger group sessions and then has some 1-1 thrown in there.
All very different.
Yeah Formation is costly if you are in Canada, so that makes sense and I think it could be an option but it's not a slam dunk if you are very FE oriented (because I think our SD prep is very strong and it's less relevant for FE). You could try it on the 1 week free trial and see but I would only consider if you are focused on the FAANG-level.
Hi, I'm the founder of Formation and Coachable is a competitor so I want to disclose that bias but I'm trying to answer without considering that.
So first off, Launch School you have to do Core first - which is meant for people starting out generally - and THEN you do Capstone.
It's more of a bootcamp model + a long rampup period.
If you feel like your FE work is like Web 1.0 web-dev or 'shopify store' dev then I would consider Launch School.
If you feel like your FE work was real work (which it sounds like it is) then I would consider an interview/career-accelerator like Coachable.
If Coachable is an option, Formation is an option too and I can explain more about it. Interview Kickstart is the third option. Pathrise used to be an option but it closed down.
All three are different.
If you want to stick to Frontend then I would consider Formation only if you want to do FAANG-Fronte…
I replied a bit for #2/5 here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1lnns0z/comment/n0hxrk7/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1lnns0z/comment/n0hxrk7/)
Degrees aren't a deal breaker so I zoomed out more to the professional experience aspect instead.
And yeah things have changed in the past 2 years and they have been gradually getting worse and worse if you don't meet the criteria and go anyways. You might be "the one" who gets a job, but have to be realistic.
A few reasons:
\- For flag 7 - when it comes to exaggerating your experience, you'll commonly see things along the lines of. like a hotel marketing manager who ran their website -> "Web Developer". Mechanical Engineer -> "Systems Engineer". Accountant -> "Data Engineer". Account manager -> "Project Manager"
For grads at places like Codesmith the vast majority reframe their non-technical experience as experience and it's a key part of the high outcomes in the past and if you can lie like this, you won't be getting those mid level jobs with zero experience that they love to advertise without telling you how it happens.
If the job was at a big company and some kind of information-related job, this is a lot easier to do without completely flat out lying.
\- If you don't want to lie to that degree and hope for the best, then more generally - there are more transferrable skills in "desk j…
If you area already a developer and want to switch adjacent then my arguments don't apply
If you are a custodian at a high school and you saw an add for SWE and for cyber and want to choose one then this applies.
The reason is if you aren't in the industry and choosing between them then you are not committed enough to SWE to become a SWE. If you choose SWE and learn programming for a year then you might be able to check off the boxes in the future, but you don't right now.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
Oh ok yeah for sure, people can also get temporary jobs too, I'm just seeing right now people who don't go all in on SWE for the entire job search time having a harder time - it's such a difficult job search that people are just going back to their old jobs.
Talking Codesmith again since I know them so well, they had a huge spike in placements that 'ghosted' and their placement was verified by their LinkedIn instead of officially.
This is a sign of people giving up and going back to their old job or a tangential old job and giving up and not reporting it back as a placement because it's not a full blown SWE job.
Good question, but it's funny how the ones that do tend to be the ones that succeed and they are taking a pay cut to do the transition. I don't think many would and it's another reason why bootcamps are closing left right and center now,
I'm trying to dispel the myth that people making minimum wage as a line cook will go to a bootcamp and make $100K afterwards even though the advertising comes across that way.
Let's look at Codesmith for example. The schedule for part time is:
9 Months:
Monday – Thursday: 8:00 pm–11:00 pm ET
Saturday 12:00 pm–6:00 pm ET
So if you work full time you have hardly any time for anything else. You can Sundays and Friday nights off I guess?
Let's say you have two young children and normally leave at 7:30am to drop the kids off at preschool and then go to work. And then pick them up and come home at 6pm and then cook dinner and then go to class and spend otherwise ZERO time with your family.
Like you need a support system. A partner who can help out significantly to support you.
It's really not at all easy.
I've heard it both ways. People who have savings and a support system think part time can work, others thing it only works if you are single and unattached.
Either-way, the longer and slower you do it part time, the longer it will take you to eventually…
Who should and shouldn't go to software engineering bootcamps (in 2025). No matter how good a bootcamp seems - or how much you want to do it, these things are DEAL BREAKERS you have to consider before even thinking about doing one.
My background - since these are all opinions, you have to judge my background and consider them through that lens. I am a self taught coder at age 12 who did a general engineering degree in college (but took a LOT of CS courses) did software engineering internships, and then worked at Facebook from 2009 to 2017 (about 200 engineers to 10,000 engineers). Afterwards I started a tech company focused on helping experienced engineers prepare for interviews and have insights into almost all of the top companies hiring processes and hiring trends.
Assume that I know a ton about most bootcamps, all the payment methods, job guarantees, all kinds of placement reports,…
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
Hopeless but not impossible yeah.
So look at Codesmith's stats since we're talking about them and they release numbers.
2021 grads: about 90% of grads placed within 6 months
2022 grads: about 80% of grads placed within 6 months
2023 grads: about 40% of grads placed within 6 months (and very notable that there was a huge double digit percentage increase in people who ghosted Codesmith and got counted as a placement because of LinkedIn
2024 grads: no data yet, but based on Codesmith's little bits of data there have been about 250 offers in h2 2024 -> h1 2025, which covers some 2022 grads, 2023 grads, 2024 grads, and then 2024 grads.
Now enrollment has declined because they cutback from 4+1 to 1+1 cohorts in Feb 2024 so it's hard to tell what the placement rates are but they definitely aren't good.
Codesmith also should have plenty of information about 2024 grads now that i's 6 mon…
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
I agree with this point as of June 2025.
We (speaking for Formation now) use a ton of AI for helping people practice and off the shelf ChatGPT is not perfect for learning right now. We have a lot of unique product applications of AI specifically tuned for helping people have effective practice and feedback and fortunately there's enough judgement and taste and nuance in that that it justifies our existing right now haha.
App Academy just sold to Coding Temple last week so I wouldn't expect anything in the past to apply to the future.
They paused their SWE program about a year ago and the sale is a sign that they are done. Kind of like when Tech Elevator sold to Galvanize and they merged away all of the insides and the program is nothing like when it was special in the past.
In terms of strategic advice - learning to code is great and you should keep doing it. Expecting to get a software engineer job is almost hopeless though and you should be doing it just to learn because you like programming and want it as a tool in your tool belt for whatever job you do.
They have coupon codes and they said in June if you go to a free workshop you get a code to do it for free, so at a minimum try to get it discounted :D Their overall enrollment has been struggling so they have been offering a lot of discounts on the prep programs (because again, they are marketing tools to get you to join the expensive one).
Do Codecademy, consider Launch School Core, and drop Codesmith and get your money back unless your goal is to go through the $22,500 version with dwindling hope of actually getting a job according to their own data.
The primary goal of it is to get you to show up to more Codesmith sessions so that they can indoctrinate you and get you to join the expensive one.
Their former CEO said in a podcast that these sessions were their marketing funnel and that they didn't run ads at the time (now they inundate you with ads as well).
Not a bad idea to put advertising dollars into courses that offer some value! But they are ads for Codesmith that you are paying for.
Like I said, ask them how many people get fully refunded under the job guarantee.
I'm not making any comments good or bad about Triple Ten, I'm giving advice for what you should ask ANY bootcamp that offers a job guarantee.
The fact that the job guarantee sounds so legit is a red hearing if almost no one ever actually gets it.
And people might not get it entirely because of their own fault.
But if you join expecting that or Triple Ten admissions people sold you on the job guarantee for any you should join, then I think it's extremely sad if you then entirely blame yourself for not progressing fast enough.
It's like the video I posted. The rules were fair and clear but not a single person got the $1 TV and they all expected to get it when they showed up at the store that day.
I've been doing this for years and I've read all their docs including their referral program ones.
I advise you to be really careful and diligent in your research and questioning because you can't take marketing and refund policies at face value.
Ask TripleTen how many people got refunds in your program you are considering in the past year.
If they won't give a specific number then ask what percentage graduates within 15 months (the max time to be refund eligible). If it's 30% then that means that at most 30% of people could get refunds.
If they won't give an answer to that then don't sign up.
If you still want to sign up, then ask to talk to people who actually graduated in 2025 for a reference check.
If they won't connect you with anyone, don't sign up.
If they do, ask the person how many people they started with graduated too already.
I'm a few steps ahead here but I want you…
That's a fair point so I won't attribute you to claiming you are an industry expert and world class industry, but I will attribute Codesmith to saying it about you.
If you don't think it's true and you are employed by Codesmith than you have a responsibility to tell them because they might be false advertising and they should correct it.
My point about the quality. Formation has 200 or something mentors in the system and some are industry legends.
If you think the program's value is collaboration with those people then come on down to Formation because you'll collaborate with a huge range of people, far larger than in that program.
I posted above, but I was infuriated by your Dog's account and I was very mean about the AI program and I'm going to be more cool headed about it because it's not terrible, I'm just critiquing it like I would critique my own work and I want my comments to…
1. Agree the core team/admin team and the instructor team is hardworking, no question there. But Codesmith's codebase is apparently a giant mess that looks like the largest OSP project - which isn't surprising because the people that work on it just graduated Codesmith. I would say the team has tremendous POTENTIAL but the technical people lack the experience to be called talented. Based on some alumni talk that someone told me about where Will tried to explain the Codesmith architecture (in an attempt to learn it himself) and it literally sounded like the worst code I've ever heard of for a 10 year old company that calls itself a tech company, something like deploying the entire codebase to 32 microservices that each ran one of them???
I know this sounds mean but it's just being real. Like every instructor I know that sees Codesmith defend the quality of the code or the legitimacy of…
It looks like the job guarantee is now 'if you don't get a job within 10 months, we refund' - which is very interesting if historically very few people finish in 10 months because they have to finish to be eligible.
It's like this (watch the whole 45 seconds): [https://www.tiktok.com/@comedycentral/video/7018617892316908806?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@comedycentral/video/7018617892316908806?lang=en)
I'm very curious how many people actually get refunded.
Thanks for sharing. Just like I'm critical of good reviews I also think it's important to see all perspectives before concluding.
Do you have any explanation for their 87% placement rate within 6 months. I know it's a bit misleading because it's starting with all people placed, how many were in 6 months vs not (and might include people who were refunded). But it seems to potentially exclude people who don't meet the "requirements" for refund even if they graduate?
I'm honestly confused but just the nature of self-paced remote programs is that far less people finish than strict cohorted progreams and even like a 40% rate would be very strong.
So do you have any insight into how other people felt? Are they upset? Leaving early? etc...
Do you have any sense that most people who start are getting SWE jobs?
(I'm talking SWE and not Data or Cyber)
I edited that statement to clarify that I was not stating that you were, but publicly calling out that I've read the Future Code contract and it is very strict, so that Future Code funds couldn't be used to cover staff costs on other projects for example - which it sounds like we agree on.
I still think we're talking about different things here.
I'm not attacking YOUR background. I'm attacking it being marketed as "world class instructions" and "industry experts"
And calling yourself an "industry expert" with 3 years of experience and minimal professional AI experience is what I'm calling the peak Dunning Kruger by definition.
If you don't think you are a world class instructor and industry expert, ask Codesmith to stop marketing you that way.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
The leaders that have left are the ones that stopped believing or were laid off. I wouldn't be surprised if Annie also left and moved on.
I spoke to Alina and she's a much more reasonable person and open to criticism, but she's in a very tough place with Codesmith imploding and trying to pivot to AI - which many programs have struggled with.
Alina: if Will, Annie and Eric all left the company I would definitely be open to talking, but with them there there is too much baggage of low standards and lack of diligence.
That's not what I said, I said it would be wasted money because we can't think of a "report" that would be useful.
So we spend even MORE MONEY person by person going over these things.
I think that is better but if you don't then you can call it a scam and not join, thats totally fine if that's your opinion.
We are very diligent about feedback and actioning it and people wanting data is on the list, and the way we are working on that and have worked on it is by providing them more data.
We have a bunch more data but it's only for people who apply and we get more info about you to provide you with more relevant data.
That's how it should be - deliver the best product, not superficial garbage CIRR reports so that we APPEAR legit. We actually BEHAVE legitimately with integrity the best we can and over time that compounds into trust.
If you behave sketchy and focus on superficial you e…
Interesting... we're going to see more shut downs and consolidation.
But this is a strong sign that the "Bootcamp AI Pivot" business model doesn't work. App Academy paused all SWE and went all in on AI course and clearly that didn't go anywhere.
I'll try to summarize haha:
1. I used to be on them like anything else, pros and cons, and I recommended people go there with Rithm and Launch School.
I was very consistently hard on three things:
\- marketing mid level and senior placements for people with zero experience (which I felt was wrong)
\- marketing their OSP projects as 'equivalent of months of full time SWE work' when they were full of junior problems and most people worked on them for 3-4 weeks
\- their instructors all went to codesmith itself and were promoted up the tree in a pyramid shape so they don't have SWE experience
2. Codesmith didn't see things the same way and framed me as a villain - which I completely ignored and kept doing my thing as a public service to offer my opinions through my lens
3. Throughout that time, former staff, current staff, students, etc... have proactively contacted me and told me ab…
It's the exception, not because it doesn't have troubles from the market too but because they are marketing themselves as the "slow path" to becoming a Software Engineer.
More people will try and few will succeed but they won't be mislead or burned with it.
Now because of this philosophy it hyper optimizes for people making it through Capstone that are actually good fits and they actually get jobs, but it's relatively small compared to typical bootcamps.
But the fact that they have a 70% six month placement rate (accounting for every student, down from 100%) that is quite high when somewhere like Codesmith has a 40% six month placement rate (when including ghosters based on LinkedIn) shows why this slow and stead approach works.
Financially though it works because Launch School is small and founder run. Their founder teaches and helps people.
Codesmith has a bunch of directors and m…
Some people get upset because they did the wrong degree, want to become a SWE and want a path and it's demoralizing to realize there statistically isn't a good path right now.
If they accept that, they have to accept that they might have made a mistake with their college choice that can't be fixed by bootcamps that have such strong marketing to make them feel like they can.
To those people, my advice:
1. Edge cases happen, you could be one of them but statistically it's not likely you are. Do a lot of deep soul searching, and be extremely skeptical about bootcamps, take your time, etc...
2. Be honest with yourself why you want to switch. If it's not because you were meant to live breathe and sleep code, then look for other tech-adjacent options and don't fall into the lure of a better life.
3. Consider a masters degree or post-bacc to bridge the schooling
4. Consider combining codi…
We don't have zoomed out data as I've stated a number of times over the years extensively why.
We don't have a way to aggregate date into a consistent "report" that makes any sense and we won't want to spend time making a superficial one that we don't think is useful.
When you apply we show you anonymized before after data based on your background.
We don't have end dates, graduations, or "school" concepts and it's very hard to make some kind of report.
We explain our process in multiple paragraphs on our website.
It's INSANELY more costly for us to discuss outcomes 1-1 with each person that applies and is interested but we think it's the best way to make sure someone is on the same page and we will keep doing that for the Fellowship.
I wish we could have a report that was as effective and clear because it would save time and money.
It's not perfect but that's the transparent answ…
1. Last week you or your bot said that you asked your manager if it was a conflict and that they worked at Microsoft for 25 years and said there wasn't. So if you since then went through the entire internal conflict review process and are confirming that then I will acknowledge that. I've been around the block here and any super senior engineer will warn you on this topic. Some companies don't even let you mentor at bootcamps and consider it a conflict. Instead of seeing this as an attack, see it as advice. I've seen many people get in trouble for conflicts.
2. You said in a public talk about two months ago with Course Report that you weren't using AI on the job and wanted to more and would consider new roles that use AI more internally at Microsoft or at another company. If you are updating this and now saying since then you have extensively used AI the whole time then I will update ac…
That's why integrity is so important.
I have an email chain with Codesmith leaders about literally the math having problems on their California reports on their website and they never responded or acknowledged those concerns and answered other things.
Like if you publish things that were made up for marketing purposes, rushed in a panic because you realized how terrible the numbers were and did a massive LinkedIn profile sprint not so diligently that's fine but don't tell the public that.
If you keep telling everyone your data is audited but you and CIRR don't answer me about where the audited version is (historically CIRR publishes the audit paperwork after they are audited) it's sloppiness.
People make mistakes here and there but almost everything here is a mistake and when I talk to former employees that proactively tell me how clowntown everything is run there... everyone "in ove…
Each week is completely dynamic and unique both to you and week to week.
Every Friday we run the algorithms and crunch a schedule of mentor led, peer based sessions for the next week and then assign them all out in the evening.
What you get depends on:
\- your workload that week
\- your schedule that week
\- your availability that week
\- your job interviews that week if you have any
\- everyone else's availability who need to work on similar problems as you
\- the mentors availability and FAANG-canonical level matching criteria to you and your group.
Then throughout the week you can book 1-1 mocks when eligible, book checks etc.. also join and release sessions.
Then in between you do practice problems, system design practice, benchmarks, etc... on various topics. The topics you work on depends on your progress, your workload etc...
We have some interesting "tasks" like to cha…
Yeah sure for starting in 2025: rough non-binding, reasonable estimates:
About \~250 people starting in 2025 so far, about 15% or so leave in the trial week.
We had fairly robust starts in January, then tariff threats in particular caused a lot hesitation, and then May -> June things picked back up again.
I would estimate about 5 to 10 people start in a given week?
The number of people in Formation isn't super relevant because the nature of the program scales up and down dynamically - including all of the mentorship.
So this sounds insane but your session matching is BETTER the MORE people there are.
Our team works on the practice content, benchmarks, etc... but the mentors themselves are contractors and we have a very complex algorithms to manage all of this dynamically without much humans.
So more people, better level matching, better time matching, etc...
All of our full tim…
To be contrarian, I think they - specifically Will - should get credit for doing one thing well, which is building an organic community through sheer will (no pun intended). I think they figured out how to take high potential people with low self-confidence/low confidence in their SWE abilities and increase their self-confidence (which is not an easy feat).
But everything else about the company I'm extremely critical on and have been puzzled for years why the heck they wouldn't take my feedback.
For years, defending, defending, defending. Even Alina when she joined posted something about how how I'm 'reddit competitor' going after them - trivializing my feedback and mischaracterizing it.
If they friggin listened to the friggin feedback they would have had a better shot andit's too late now because they have zero engineering talent (they might have potential, but no serious talent) an…
Yes that's also correct. For 2024 placements, early career = harder, Compensation increase = higher.
Our demographic has been shifting and in 2025, only 3 placements have under 1 year SWE experience.
I believe we're going to do an H1 update as H1 finishes up and we'll be able to comment on the latest.
Read the fine print for the official full details but as a partial note, these calculations we are using YOE prior to starting Formation, full time SWE work experience only, excluding internships, contracts, and adjacent experience.
So someone with 1 year as a SWE might have been a contractor for 2-3 years and if they weren't a W2 type situation and were "contracting" that doesn't count in these calculations.
It's like the opposite of embellishing resumes and really holding a firm tight bar on the definition of experience.
If you don't have 1-2+ years of this kind of SWE experience,…
Sorry I misunderstood - if you DO NOT HAVE EXPERIENCE, you need to have a CS degree right now. I'll be more clear when I make those arguments. If you have experience it doesn't matter if you do or don't but your gaps will be different in either case.
Oh I would grab coffee and talk more because Reddit is Reddit and I think I make more sense face to face.
I genuinely felt a bit threatened at first there so glad to clear that up lol.
Can you also clarify exactly what you are going to do to me next time you are in SF? I feel that is mildly threatening and I want to make sure you aren't physically threatening me.
Do you mind giving her the documented evidence of Codesmith confirming they paid a guy on Upwork to post stuff on Reddit and then that same person posted shit about me and tried to get me banned?
Do you want the messages Codesmith posted to their CSX community of 20K people lying to them that I was on Slack with multiple aliases contacting people to try to get them to go to Formation - which never happened.
Those messages are libelous and I asked Codesmith to apologize which they declined to.
I'm furious at Codesmith and I'm justified in being angry and upset about it and I'm playing by the rules of the game in expressing my anger.
That stat is correct and it's about 45% so far in 2025 so close but a bit lower.
The average YOE for 2025 placements so far is (full time SWE experienceprior to Formation): **5.5 YEARS**
This means that people had bootcamps, self taught, and other degrees, worked for 5 years, came to Formation, and then got a better job.
What is wrong with that?
Here are the 10 or so most placement companies : Udacity, Amazon, Gurus Solutions, Meta, Meta, Meta, Headspace, Stripe, AppleCart, PayPal, Applied Intuition, Meta, NVIDIA
These are stronger placements than 2024.
What is wrong with that?
**I'm happy to take feedback to improve our marketing so please give it but I want to make sure it's clear that the stuff on our website is accurate for starters.**
Will is faking his background yes - he has never really been an engineer ever - and then he spent 10 years focused on superficial appearances…
I have no problem with your background or your efforts. I have a problem that you and Codesmith aren't marketing it for what it is and I think it's doomed to fail from a business point of view.
You just said you are working on AI stuff at Microsoft and your work at Codesmith is a conflict of interest - like seriously submit the internal conflict clearance ticket and get sign off before you get fired for it. Microsoft doesn't screw around with this stuff.
Second, it's all defensive. I'm not attacking your background, I'm attacking the marketing and pricing you are using based on your background.
You can't change your background, there is absolutely zero you can say because you don't have the experience, there isn't some program you did or some credential or some project. Zero.
If you want to be defensive, then defend the pricing and defend the marketing.
Maybe my pricing is off and t…
A) I meant that Founders can sell off stock in secondaries, instead I bought more with cash
B) The platform is genuinely a unique product not offered anywhere else in the world. That doesn't mean it's GOOD haha, it has a lot of bugs and product issues, etc... and it's why I have to do some work still ;), but it's indeed a unique model that lets us adapt faster to things and it's an advantage in many ways.
AI for productivity is about using AI tools, so you need a background in using AI tools. I can do that one.
I don't have a background in ML or LLMs and I can't do anything personally about ML.
Unlike Will Sentance who thinks he can so much that he did a public Frotnend Master's Course on it, I don't want to bullshit the public with smoke and mirrors. I know what I can do and what I can't do.
The challenge for us with AI for productivity isn't the content, but it's that our 7 years…
A) correct, I have equity as an owner and Formation is venture backed. I have not made a single penny from my equity and I have purchased additional equity, but I do own equity.
B) Excellent question. we spent 7 years building a PLATFORM that is completely unique and patended and built from the ground up to enables us to to configure practice and benchmarking dynamically.
This technology has has a number of people contribute to it over the years and will support the AI and ML people contributing to it as well.
My personal expertise lies in AI PRODUCTIVITY - using AI to replace a number of engineers and using it to make me 5X more productive through 20,000 commits and counting.
So I'm not out of the game by any means but I don't have any ML experience - our first product in this space is focused on productivity using AI tools, which honestly doesn't overlap much with Codesmith's AI pr…
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
I haven't made a penny of salary for the past 8 years and i'm not selling anything. I'm pointing out how poorly positioned Codesmith's AI program is and how they need to seriously watch out for growing it through milking alumni - who are paying for something that they were promised for free for life.
I've spoken to a number of companies on the B2B side floated different ideas around. The answer - we want our fleet of 100 ML engineers to teach this internally.
Codesmith's AI program is maintained and lead by someone with I think about 2-3 years of industry experience, ZERO prior to Codesmith, has not done AI professionally.
AND IS DOING IT PART TIME WHILE HE WORKS AT MICROSOFT.
There's no way in heck this program can be good. No way.
I'm telling you I will work 16 hours a day to build a much better AI program applying my experience as the number one code committer at Meta and showing…
This person isn't dedicating all their time to keeping the program in sync. They are paying to do a Oxford Fellows program, like doing a master's degree. And I suspect this will take a lot of Will's time too.
I hear this about 1-2 times a week. It's frustrating to people as well how delusional their leaders are.
I spoke to Alina directly 1-1 on a call and she seems 50% like a good product leader who tricked into taking this job and is now running a company full of mouse traps, and 50% she was brainwashed by Will as well and perpetuates this bull shit messaging and narratives.
Unfortunately she's not an engineer and while she has more experience than Will did, she still doesn't have the engineering lens to look at things through and her ambition and drive is pushing Codesmith in the wrong direction.
I don't think there's a single thing they can do to save it without throwing Will's goal of an "independent bootcamp" and the rest of their community support into the trash and raising VC funding to build something new OR by getting rid of all of the staff and rebuilding something from the groun…