u/michaelnovati replied ·
I'm not sure if or when but the first round has been notified and will be interviewed first and additional interviews will be to fill slots not filled in the first wave, if necessary.
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Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I saw that thread because I was mentioned in it and I immediately commented that I thought it was not appropriate. I don't know why someone posted it, but it was pretty inappropriate for the person to insult and mock people and I stated that on the thread and the person will hopefully back off a bit. I don't think anyone wants that kind of thing.
Senior Codesmith staff member: "Grads should have the right to post positive comments without having them selectively deleted, don't ya think?" [leaked, part 2 & 3] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I know the mods attitude is to only delete things that are very clearly violations and really blatant. Not to apply opinions and not to judge in the gray area.
I think the most borderline Codesmith-related thing I deleted that was in the multi-year long queue when I was added as a mod was a comment from 1 year ago that said 3000 Codesmith grads has mid-level and senior jobs that was reported for misinformation and there is first hand sources from Codesmith that show that that was not correct a year ago. But maybe that's one step too much judgement? I wouldn't delete ANY comment that was an opinion or just 'felt wrong' or something very vague like that.
Maybe TMI, when I was clearing out the queue I approved comment I HAD REPORTED MYSELF like 2 years ago THAT INSULTED ME, but I didn't think met the threshold for removal with my mod hat one.... kind of weird hahaha.
u/michaelnovati replied ·
It's completely non technical to confirm your information and talk about background, ambitions, and shorter term goals.
Are coding bootcamps still relevant or should I just opt to work for free for experience? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I mean maybe you should DM me a bit more. You sound like you are in the right direction but I might need to dig a little deeper. Everything we do is deeper personalized so it's hard to generalize and what I gave is my general advice :)
Are coding bootcamps still relevant or should I just opt to work for free for experience? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Good question, it doesn't matter at all skills-wise how much experience you have to benefit technically from Formation, and you can do Formation for a fixed length of time if you are at the minimum skill bar (which it sounds like you might not have been yet on the benchmark) but don't have enough experience.
We just don't want you to think we have a magic formula to get you a job, and nor can we afford to pay more to mentor you than you pay us (which can happen if you are here for like 1-2 years) :P
Internship + Formation isn't quite enough experience right now for the unlimited Fellowship. We are actively exploring different shapes and sizes for different people though, because there is a lot of demand from people we currently don't support and that's where are month to month and short term packages come into play right now.
Are coding bootcamps still relevant or should I just opt to work for free for experience? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hey, I'm the co-founder of Formation and before I got to the part about you applying I was going to say it's not a good fit if you don't have any experience yet, but it would be an excellent fit once you get your first job to level up to your next job.
Now in terms of advice/questions:
1. Yeah entry level FAANG is basically internship conversions + new grads via top tier CS schools right now and we'll see in the fall if that changes. Apprenticeships are extremely competitive. Contract to hire might be the only possible option and still not likely.
2. I think that's a good idea, getting a real product in the app store with real users can count as experience but I would give it say 6 months of real work-equivalent full time contributions to really make it count.
3. Real 40 hour a week experience on a single company/project can trump credentials yeah, but you need an equivalent amount o…
Phone screen with Meta coming up · r/leetcode
u/michaelnovati replied ·
You might make it if you leaned positive. Back then it was kind of a "50% shot of passing the onsite" bar. So depending on which side of that you land.
Also the feedback from the first round carries through to the end, so if do pass and you were borderline and ALL of your onsite is borderline, you probably won't get an offer either. At least on the plus side, it doesn't get any harder coding-wise.
Phone screen with Meta coming up · r/leetcode
u/michaelnovati replied ·
It's borderline but hard to tell. If it's SUPER borderline or something logistically went weird, they might do a 2nd phone screen too.
I advise people not to overthink because it's beyond your control after the interview - even though I myself would overthink :P
Senior Codesmith staff member DMs [leaked, part 2] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
These seem to be about two unrelated things:
RE: Codesmith's comments about Reddit, I don't think there is much new in the additional responses. The tone does seem a little more focused on "attacks" and not so much opinionated commentary, and I appreciated that there is acknowledgement that all feedback is not an attack, because I have felt from my perspective that fair feedback was being perceived as an attack and maybe it's wasn't or isn't, or the tone has changed.
RE: The general Slack post, wow that's a can of worms there that seems out of nowhere.
1. I saw those job postings too! There were three roles for PHP developers in Kolkata, India. I didn't read the actual postings but I saw them on LinkedIn.
2. So there are TEN COMPANIES NAMED "Codesmith" that all do software, and I my initial hunch there was that these were legit job postings attributed to the wrong Codesmith. I might b…
Enroll into contest any time you like (https://soluscode.com/Pools/) · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy
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Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
The concern came from the wording in the blog post that comes across that he was creating content while working at Tinder in a way that implies there is an association with his role at Tinder and his role at Codesmith, and making statements on behalf of Tinder. Maybe it's poor wording or I'm misunderstanding.
The only reason I process these things this way is because Meta has contracts with some universities to have engineers teach full courses for a while semester and there is a heck of a lot of paperwork and regilatort stuff that comes with that.
If a Tinder engineer is representing Tinder as the faculty of a regulated school I would expect paperwork and formalities.
Maybe this is is just my lens and not reasonable, I dunno, but to me it's a fair concern.
I'll just ask people at Tinder instead of guessing though, that's a fair point.
I finished all my Intermediate Data Structures and Algorithms projects in like one day · r/csMajors
u/michaelnovati replied ·
It's not what you know, it's how you use them!
I don't think anyone I know can do enough practice in a day to be capable of using these tools well.
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
So I agree with the part about the person with the right skills and most capabilities should get the job and credentials shouldn't matter as a surface level criteria.
BUT the interview processes are not perfect and they are super fast to try to evaluate these things. They rely on people having the experience they say they do. It's not like just that X got the question right so they are qualified. It's X got this question right that someone with 2 years of experience is expected to get right and therefore this question validates that they have that experience. System design interviews are the best example of this. If you don't have experience, you shouldn't be passing a mid level or senior system design interview flat out, and if you lie and game the system so you are violating the interview process. Passing the interview doesn't mean you are qualified for the job.
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hey, feel free to DM me if you want me to look into your specific case, it's hard to generalize what happened or if there was a miscommunication perhaps.
To give some more info:
- There is no fixed schedule or fixed materials. Every week you get a new schedule of small group sessions, practice and benchmarks to work on based on how you did the previous week, and eventually you'll get to real mock interviews to sign off that you are at the top tier performance bar. A small caveat is no two Fellows will have the same experience or materials and our job is to sign off that you are at the top tier interview performance bar as efficiently as we think we can get you there, rather than by exhaustively covering fixed materials. That's why the time it takes, the time per week, etc... are all very ambiguous and fuzzy because we don't want to mislead you into thinking there is anything fixed abo…
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Yeah I mean smaller cohorts with same number of instructors would be better and that makes sense and probably what this means.
As others pointed out, I think there are a lot of ways fewer staff can be worse for alumni and grads. Like the wait time for reviews and mocks was really bad for the past few months, people asked me to review their resume. But I think they improved that a bit recently, and that they churned out not involved alumni and pushed the existing ones to open up time.
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Thanks, I'll report that to the team, the intention is correct, but that's not a strict rule if you are able to contribute the required effort.
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
Yeah I think all that is fair. I just don't see how the person in that post would know I became a moderator unless they were on here very recently and noticed that I happened to be a moderator.
And yeah I mean I don't expect Eric K to ever like me, and I think if I had switched up the language a bit when I talk to Formation Fellows about a startup that closed down 10 years ago, and someone was just harping on that, it would be a bit irritating. I would probably message them and be like hey, this is what went down, and I was trying to summarize the experience maybe too casually and I'll be careful with how I talk about it in the future.
Anyways, I don't have anything personal against Eric K, maybe it's like politicians debating, who co-exist professionally but don't really see eye-to-eye.
I also don't think my personal treatment matters whatsoever and I'm not going to discourage anyone…
The Perpetual Education boot camp. Anyone have experience with them? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Thanks for sharing, re: partnerships, most don't have partnerships. Tech Elevator had the best unique partnerships for in person jobs in the cities it's in, but those are also a bit slower right now.
I think the key is to make sure expectations are clear up front. And you shouldn't expect jobs if they weren't promised.
It's tough because companies talk up partnerships all the time because it's compelling, but the market is the market and you can't beat the market.
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I believe having a full time internship is ok yeah! I'm not sure the exact language where you saw that but, the thing Formation and Netflix both care about is that you can participate as expected in the program.
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I don't think it's super secret but I don't know if I can say because Netflix might have to sign off too, but there were a significantly large number of applications, so it will be tough. The recruiters are going through every single application and making sure they get read, but the number of slots is much smaller than the number of applications. If you get an interview though that's good though, because the ration of interview -> accepted will be much higher.
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Yeah my stance on this is:
1. That there is indeed ALL the free material in the world you can find on your own to self study. There is actually TOO MUCH, and that's why programs of all kinds (not just bootcamps, but even like a $20 udemy course) exist to kind of set a pathway through the mess.
How much is the pathway for you? That's up to you to decide.
2. Return on investment. Paying for a bootcamp is an investment and not a transaction. You should be getting that value back, ideally in the job you get afterwards, but it could also be in your time savings, or by you learning something permanently you just couldn't learn on your own.
Could you get a higher return by doing things on your own? Maybe, but if you get a return via the bootcamp than you can't complain.
If you don't feel like you got a return, and that happens to most people, that's when the bootcamp has problems.
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
The raw evidence I've seen shows Codesmith on paper discourages people from lying about their experience - almost awkwardly directly - like it's said early on in the resume process and said firmly, so I think it's important to call that out to lay the pieces out there.
It's also a fact that they sign off on background checks for the time that you claim you were involved with your OSP. By default they sign off on your time in Codesmith but they sign off on it under OSLabs and under your main project, and not under Codesmith's name. And if you update a README 6 months latter and tell them you've been active over 9 months, the would sign off on that.
I've talked to two students who refused to exaggerate at all and were struggling on the job hunt and I honestly don't have much advice for them. But when you see how demoralized these people were, you start to piece together how another demor…
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I was made a moderator a few days ago because I have a strong presence here to help keep the piece. I don't know if I will forever be a moderator but I hope I can help.
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I mean when it comes to harassment or serious negative impact, everyone should be heard and it doesn't really matter what you said in the past. I'm just a human and I don't have all the answers and I can see hard cases come up. Some things are meant for more calibrated Reddit employees to deal with, but my stance is open and fair lines of communication.
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
When people talk to me 1-1 I often recommend Codesmith to people based on their personal situations, I'm no longer going to be doing that. Maybe Phil actually heard from students who said I was the reason they went to Codesmith and has more appreciation of what I do.
Eric K though seems to have no idea, and if my stopping to recommend them has a further impact on enrollment then maybe he'll change his mind and if it doesn't have an impact, then my conversations don't really mean anything significant.
Senior Codesmith staff member addresses "the odd negativity on reddit" [leaked] · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
I'm happy to respond to this point by point, but **if this is real, the timestamp is accurate, and it's one of the leaders (i.e. Eric K or Will)** then I'm going to reconsider recommending anyone go to Codesmith instead of just pausing that recommendation like I did when the new changes came out. Why? 1) they are directly admitting to being involved with this subreddit, and 2) they are continuing to be defensive and vaguely dismissive instead of providing specific examples, and it doesn't sound like anything has changed.
MY PERSONAL RESPONSES:
1. **Most importantly this post is clearly admitting to being extremely involved on this subreddit after being fairly dismissive of that in the past.**
- I became a moderator like three days ago-ish, it wasn't announced anywhere, and the Codesmith person is already aware, so they are clearly paying attention to Reddit closely
- "We've had grads…
Why has markdown become so popular? · r/webdev
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Markdown is a compromise between plain text and a complex rich text.
It’s readable as plain text AND can be cleanly rendered nicer if the location supports it.
It’s storable as a string without having to consider anything special about it.
It can be written in plain text or a rich text editor so it’s flexible.
The most interesting trend though is towards Medium, Notion and Coda where formatting is constrained and results in more consistent and cleaner documents. Markdown is constrained in what you can do similarly and benefits from this trend in consumer tools.
Does joining a coding boot camp for full-stack JS still make sense? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I would generalize this to: engineers solve problems and we aren’t running out of problems to solve.
Whether code or AI or whatever is less relevant if you are an engineer.
Now BOOTCAMPS teach people how to code more so than solve problems.
And this is why bootcamps are so controversial and tied to outcomes. You aren’t learning anything long term in a bootcamp but you are learning just enough to try to get a job, and then your long future career will be steered by trends and changes, but will be stable as long as you are a problem solver.
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hi, I would mention it in the interview yeah. It may be possible it could work but it's not ideal timing wise. I'm not sure what the minimum is, but there could be some important onboarding sessions you would miss.
Just generally speaking, the program isn't just something to put on your resume and it takes time and it's also why it's really valuable and effective :). So if the team doesn't think you'll benefit properly it might just not be a good fit, and you don't want to push it because you won't get the most out of it. So I would be transparent and accept the decision if we can't support it.
HR being concerningly specific · r/csMajors
u/michaelnovati replied ·
And they told me I didn't need to do well in gym class if I wanted to be an engineer.... jokes on them
What was the staff setup (org structure) at your bootcamp? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Oh yeah cross discipline is way different then all the SWE
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
FWIW you can't have "contractors" be training in a strict style of teaching and force them to teach that way, otherwise they are employees. You can't give contractors mandatory training on how to do something and you can't give them performance reviews and direction on how to do their job.
Obviously there is a massive gray area and a lot of factors play into this, but that's the general overview, but if they are systematically making people contractors and exerting strong control over their work, that might be illegal.
Finally, you mention you "could", that's the key thing here. Very strong industry engineers have complex jobs and can't commit to consistent teaching or projects as "faculty". You need to build a system around managing these people so they can "teach a workshop" every few weeks that makes sure everything is covered. Which my company has patented and built.
Giving back a…
Do not feel ready at all for System Design interview · r/leetcode
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Meta (and a couple of other top tier companies) have really rigid and standardized interview processes so that they can be the most calibrated possible and make sure that the bar is consistent across the company and also be the most fair possible so that you get the most consistent experience.
My biggest advice is to work with the recruiter because they're on your side to try to help you get an offer and they will be more than willing to help
What was the staff setup (org structure) at your bootcamp? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Wow 6 core staff and 6 TAs for 30 people seems like a lot actually hahaha.
Formation isn't a bootcamp so I won't try to explain our org chart, the majority of people are engineers, designers, PMs building the mentorship platform, and the next largest group is the Fellowship team that runs the flagship Fellowship we offer.
I know Codesmith pretty well - before all the recent changes: a full Cohort is 36 students. There is:
- 1 Lead Instructor
- 1 Instructor
- 1 Engineering Mentor
- 1 Admissions Coordinator (before you start) + 1 Program Coordinator (after you start) + 1 Outcomes Coordinator (after you finish)
- 2 to 5 fellows (TAs/former students on contract)
Company wide staff involved partially:
- 1 Head Instructor
- 1 Director of Programs
- 1 Program Manager
- 1 Outcomes Manager
- A number of on demand fellows who do things like resume review and code review
So overall 4…
Do not feel ready at all for System Design interview · r/leetcode
u/michaelnovati replied ·
What kind of specialist are you? The "product architecture" is best described as "full stack system design". They have frontend specializations that is SUPER frontend and they have iOS and other specailizations.
If you are really concerned talk openly to the recruiter about it, they WANT to get you in the right spot!
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
Ok the tone is a little bit antagonistic, but I do agree with the opinion stated that not all alumni and staff are super happy with everything going on and there's a significant lack of organization of things internally. A lot of people have access to a lot of things and a lot of those things are completely publicly shared. So I wouldn't be surprised if people do start posting more about their experience even with an NDA because a bunch of things are publicly available that I certainly wouldn't make publicly available. People who have non disparagement clauses might not be able to post anything.
That said. I learned from someone last night that Codesmith actually doesn't have much "code" that employees actually work on. The main codebases are the public website and the CSX website, both of which are like junior web developer level work and not "senior software engineering work". I looke…
Do not feel ready at all for System Design interview · r/leetcode
u/michaelnovati replied ·
It's the same questions! The discussion is just more full stack, focusing on client use cases, i.e. an API tier for mobile vs desktop, etc...
Whereas the system one is more focused on the backend of the problem
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Codesmith grads are getting jobs, from the data they share publicly, the people getting placed tend to have adjacent experience prior or they exaggerate their resume or they list their contractor work as a fellow as like 8 months of Software Engineer experience.
And Codemsith has almost no code, it's mostly the website that people work on, like junior web developer work. So it's just not enough to get by right now.
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Uhh, well there are three software companies called Codesmith - I don't think Codesmith has any IP lawyers, and I bet those were added to the wrong one and are for another Codesmith.
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
I was doing some illustrative math.
THESE ARE NOT FACTUAL NUMBERS, THERE ARE ESTIMATES FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES AND THE SOURCE OF THE GUESS SPECIFIED.
In early 2023, Codesmith had 4 full time cohorts (running every 7 weeks - roudning up ) and 1 part time (running twice a year), and seemed full or with waitlists
So that's 7.4 cohorts a year (let's say 7) = 28 full time cohorts + 2 part time.
Let's say 32 people per cohort average (a full is 36 but's lets again round down)
That means = 960 people starting, @$21K = $20M of revenue
Now the current state:
1 full time cohort (running every 7 weeks) = 7 per year full time cohorts + looks like 4 part time from their website
Enrollment end of 2023 was 'averaging 26 people' from one of the info sessions, so let's use that
That means = 286 people, $6M of revenue
-------
That's not just a drop, that's like a 70% drop in enrollment and re…
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
It's been updated again:
FULL TIME: **13 Weeks**
**Mon - Fri:** 7:30am - 5:30pm PT / 10:30am - 8:30pm ET
**Sat:** 7:30am - 3pm PT / 10:30am - 6pm ET*Optional Hour: Mon - Sat: 6:30am - 7:30am PT / 9:30am - 10:30am ET*
PART TIME:
**Mon - Thurs:** 5pm - 8pm PT / 8pm - 11pm ET
**Sat:** 9am - 3pm PT / 12pm - 6pm ET
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
+1 to this, we're all human and we'll say things wrong sometimes, but if we can just try to not take it personally and just coexist we can have a much more healthy community than most of Reddit. I try to talk to people 1-1 so we can recognize each other as humans and not as avatars.
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I don't know anything about the specific people in this thread and they are keeping the discussion fairly civil and I appreciate that as a reader too, but I do know people in the past were asked to post and comment on Reddit by their senior advisor. There are a ton of people that post and comment on their own too.
The more interesting case was super sleek to me: someone spread word to instructors that 'they really could use more support on Reddit' and the instructors then asked top students like 'wow you should really share that, that's amazing' type things. Percolates down.
Is it wrong or bad, personally I don't think so, but just have to read everything skeptically, INCLUDING EVERY WORD I WRITE TOO.
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Sorry I was offline for 3 hours and flailing a bit to catch up and responding to things not well, agree it's a half baked indirect comment.
Anyways, the point was if people are getting laid off and they have experience they are very much capable of getting great new jobs and moving forward, and I don't see why they would go back to teach at Codesmith.
I was trying to explain that the way it happens isn't trivial and you won't be handle those offers, it takes a lot of focus and effort, where having the first instinct to go teach at Codesmith might slow you down or distract you, and it maybe a little add on for some side income.
The whole thread about people being laid off teaching is not really super interesting to me and I would prefer to focus on the changes Codesmith is making and understanding what's going on, it's a big tangent I probably should have just skipped.
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Yeah again, presenting both sides:
1. Having people with experience contribute is fantastic.
2. BUT, they can contribute in infinite ways: content, teaching, mocks, resume review, talks, etc... and it takes time to figure out who should do what - and is it too little too late.
We'll see, but it's good they are trying.
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I commented this above, and I don't want to make this about me, but even if you don't like me, we are proving there are options for people **who genuinely have 2+ YOE for SWE jobs**
Last 10ish placements in the past 10 days: Microsoft, Meta, Waymo, Oracle, <startup>, JP Morgan, Atlassian, Meta, Meta, Netflix, JP Morgan, <startup>, Waymo
Hate me or not, it's not doom and gloom out there if you have experience, but it certainly is if you don't.
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I dunno, I work at a mentorship for experienced engineers and the last 10 offers are : Microsoft, Meta, Waymo, Oracle, <startup>, JP Morgan, Atlassian, Meta, Meta, Netflix, JP Morgan, <startup, Waymo
Like it's **NOT DOOM AND GLOOM IF YOU HAVE 2+ YOE**
It is though if you have no experience, and unfortunately even 1 year on paper of experience a "OSLabs OSP" doesn't cut it.
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I think they will be scheduled starting fairly soon or early next week and will be ongoing until the spots are filled.
CodeSmith is a Sinking Ship - Get a refund · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I mean there are several people who work with Eric K to reply to comments and posts on Reddit that I'm aware of and I think it's good of those people can broker information. But they are not responding so quickly to a lot of current students.