Don't go to Codesmith from a Codesmith alumni · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I love how reasonableness flies under the radar and these controversial troll threads get so heated haha.
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Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I honestly have no idea. I don't seen bootcamps battling with each other, but rather bootcamps just trying to stay alive right now.
I'm giving industry wide commentary and I often talk about Codesmith because while other programs acknowledge the struggles, Codesmith continues to double down on marketing such that I am frequently presenting a balanced view of that marketing.
My commentary has been well received and even helped people decide to go to bootcamps like Codesmith and Launch School knowing what they are getting into...
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Yeah sorry, I could make it more explicit or clear. Like I had a thread of two anonymous accounts: one got AI-collapsed by Reddit, the other suspended by Reddit, both were making false claims but Reddit PROACTIVELY took action, so clearly some really weird stuff is going on in the sub. There's nothing remotely like this for other programs.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
There have been a number of accounts suspended or flagged on Codesmith related threads (positive and negative) and we don't see that on any other posts on here. So it's a warning if someone shared a link with you and asked you to come here and do something that that is a policy violation.
🏛️ Get to know a moderator: Michael Novati · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Haha, I did learn a lot about celebrities and billionaires though in seriousness and that fundamentally impacted my view on business. A very large number of recognizable celebrities came to Facebook for various reasons, I've met 20 something billionaires now I think.
Growing up in middle class Canada, watching reality TV and that kind of thing, I had a fairly mainstream view of these things and now a much more nuanced one.
Maybe a topic for another day and requires a lot of context.
🏛️ Get to know a moderator: Michael Novati · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Reddit detects sketchy accounts based on their fingerprinting, IPs, and activity and has improved this a lot lately.
Are you saying for the documented official record that you don't have multiple accounts posting, commenting, and voting in this subreddit?
I'm not going to engage until you answer that and the answer will be on the recorded, archived and documented.
🏛️ Get to know a moderator: Michael Novati · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
You comment was double blocked for spam by Reddit, the other comment is Reddit AI, I can't say why it's collapsed.
But they are using AI to find accounts that might be trying to break rules as well. People with multiple accounts and using them to manipulate voting or discussions, and things of that nature.
I don't really know what to say here but I ain't doing nothing and I can prove it so please watch what you say.
🏛️ Get to know a moderator: Michael Novati · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Ultimately academia at that level is like the startup world. A bunch of HCI professors came from Georgia Tech under professor Gregory Abowd and then sprinkled themselves across a bunch of schools, including UofT. So my professor's reference helped a lot with those schools.
Stanford at the time had Scott Klemer (who is now at UCSD) who didn't overlap much and I'm competing for a handful of slots with dozens of other people who have papers with awards from all over the world.
So I just wasn't strong enough.
I'm friends with dozens of Stanford people now (fun fact but I partied on campus with my couple-year younger Stanford friends haha).
At the time I was legit not strong enough to go there. I was too sheltered and didn't know how to have an impact on the world. I didn't understand enough about 'humans' haha. I needed more life experience.
Second, everyone there is crazy smart. I can…
🏛️ Get to know a moderator: Michael Novati · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
For undergrad:
I was only looking at Canadians schools. The cost of my tuition was $5000 year and I could go to very good schools.
I applied to 3 schools (you could only apply to 3 without paying more I think at the time)
University of Toronto - Engineering Science (this is a specific program within engineering there that is competitive with the top schools in the world. It's the hardest program to get into in the country and 1/3 of the students are forced to switch out after first year). 5 year program with one year internships.
University of Waterloo (famous co-op program). 5 year program with 6 4 month coops
Queens University (next best school in Ontario)
I got into all three with scholarships and chose Engineering Science.
In retrospect if you wanted to get a job I would recommend Waterloo, you end up graduating with 6 internships and you have a leg up.
I wanted to go to grad…
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Good job making this subreddit a better and positive place.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
If that's what you would do, sounds like you have no integrity.
🏛️ Get to know a moderator: Michael Novati · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati posted · · edited ★ FEATURED
🏛️ Get to know a moderator: Michael Novati
Hi all, I thought it might be a good idea to share more about myself as one of the three moderators on here and one of the most active members. It might be a surprise but I spend way more time writing code and helping Fellows at Formation than on Reddit. Here's my GitHub as evidence 😝 [https://github.com/mnovati](https://github.com/mnovati)
I just wanted to share a little more about who I am and where I come from so you can work with me better in making this subreddit a better place.
There's no advice or lessons in here, it's all biographical, but I'm happy to answer questions in the comments.
# FOUR FUN FACTS
1. Meta created the "Coding Machine" archetype for me when promoting me to Principal Engineer.
2. I've met Taylor Swift. In fact I couldn't convince Mark Zuckerberg to meet her too at the time and played a prank on him by hanging…
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Thought experiment.
So if we take it as fact that the Codesmith mods are banning people from their sub that have never interacted there. So far this is just a conjecture from the OP that I haven't seen evidence for, so I talked to OP privately about it and I feel it's likely true, but with the door open for someone to disprove it. For example if the Codesmith mods came to me and said they have never banned someone who hasn't posted something violating their rules in their sub then I might have to take action if it at my discretion that is more credible.
Now let's I really actually hated Codesmith, and wanted to attack them.
Why wouldn't I do the same? Why not just ban you all, delete all your comments. Wipe every positive trace of Codesmith on here. I'm responsive all the time, I could easily act on things super quickly and no one would see anything.
That's what I've personally exper…
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I don't really know what to say, you seem down conspiracy theory lane and it's just all not true.
This post wasn't held up for review.
I said very clearly for the record that no accounts have been banned from this sub by me, temporarily or permanently.
What's your deal? Do you have questions thoughts?
As someone pointed out, a major part of the problem is no-one from Codesmith or otherwise never discusses or refutes the things I say with facts, it's all just made up stuff and bullying. A year or two ago people used to, and then I talked to those people and they say what I do and then they disappeared and we keep in touch on LinkedIn every so often.
I meticulous document, screenshot, capture, record, collect anything that I reporting facts on to show my work.
if you want to mudsling and play games you haven't seen the half of what I know.
And this why INTEGRITY is important, becau…
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I have no idea, ask Reddit.
I haven't done any manual approval of comments on this post, I did approve the top level post but it wasn't flagged for anything or held up anywhere or flagged. I approve a lot of top level posts to note that I've reviewed them.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I didn't collapse your comment. Sketchy accounts have their comments collapse by default. It's a new AI feature Reddit launched and it's turned on for this sub.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I downvoted you so count me in!
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Want to know the best defense to bullshit trolls... INTEGRITY. No matter how much I get poked I play by the rules and I have integrity.
I have one account and I hope anyone making fake accounts to manipulate discussion gets banned for life.
I HAVE NOT BANNED A SINGLE PERSON FROM THIS SUBREDDIT.
If you can't fathom someone who is as responsive and productive as me then put yourself in a better network of people before this kind of bullshit.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Codesmith has consistently raised prices every year, but I agree that in my opinion, that raising them this year with tanking outcomes is a bit arrogant, but I don't know their marketing strategy.
They just lowered the prices of JSB and CSPrep SIGNIFICANTLY like 75% off for CSPrep, so maybe they changing their view.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Launch School lays out their outcomes here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLKHZYX8D78](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLKHZYX8D78)
Unsurprisingly if you are transparent there isn't any drama. When your outcomes are tanking, your alumni believe in you like a religion, and you don't acknowledge it publicly then you get drama.
Rithm School sadly is really small right now, running a small cohort every few months, so I still think it's a great place if you want high touch, high access learning. But their outcomes aren't that meaningful right now due to size.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy
That's why comments with -10 are ranked higher than your +14 comment... voting manipulation. We've been monitoring people have been warned.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Someone commented on one of them about awesome it was it.
I DM'd the person and told them that the post was identified as 100% chance of AI generated and they said I made a "derogatory comment".
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Again, I'm not collapsing any comments, and I've turned on "crowd control" on THREE POSTS EVER for LEGITIMATE REASONS.
Reddit has added more AI capabilities recently that more aggressively diminish the posts of people suspected of being bad actors.
Given how many new/low history/anonymous accounts come at me on here, I'm not surprised whatsoever that they get flagged as people "likely trying to break the rules". Reddit knows who everyone is based on their fingerprints and IDs. There are five so accounts that have been suspended from Reddit with similar posting patterns so when those people/person come back with new accounts... Reddit knows.
Attended a "Top" Coding Bootcamp but Struggling to Find a Job – Seeking Advice on Alternative Career Paths · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Sorry to hear, feel free to DM me more details so I can give more personal advice.
Being a TA for a bootcamp isn't a bad idea, I've worked with a few people who do TA'ing at their former bootcamps OR other bootcamps to help a little with the bills.
Definitely consider adjacent roles or going back to your former job to pay the bills, while continuing to hustle on the side for a SWE job - or a SWE adjacent job.
I would have more advice knowing 1. what your background was before, 2. where you are located.
But yeah it's tough out there and I know I come across doom and gloom and I wish I didn't have to be, but you are doing a lot just openly sharing your situation so that you can help others make a more informed choice about going to a bootcamp right now or not.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
If it means anything, I was in a similar talk in the past and made comments about other people too, because they were placed like a year ago and I didn't think that was "recent".
They ignored that comment and added dates to the newer version of the slides.
People who worked there talk to me and I think it's very passive aggressive to not ONCE contact me, ONCE (other than Eric Kirsten) and yet to post blog posts and videos, and wording to respond to the things I'm saying.
I'm more than happy to talk to people about this non-defensively and openly, and this conversation is great to have madhouse!
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
This is correct, it's now more common for SENIOR engineers to join, competing and trying to get a leg up in the market. There are indeed a very small handful of edge case people without much experience who have joined in the past year (literally a handful - under 5) and each case was after many conversations and trying to convince them of other options. Just like there are a handful of engineers with experience who go to Codesmith. But that overlap isn't competition, it's an edge case.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Both the statements are wrong haha:
1. We're not a competitor. We would be amazing partners in another world where Codesmith acknowledged us not as a competitor haha.
2. I don't spend much time on Reddit no, I know it looks that way, but it's just the way I am, I am always on and one of the most responsive people - if not the most responsive - out of anyone I've ever worked with. It's not fair for people to tell me who I am and what I do when they see 1/50th of what I do and make up their own narrative portraying it as 1/4 of what I do.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I have no idea why the person left and I didn't imply anything, but it was just a factual statement that the person isn't there anymore.
Was it necessary? Probably not yeah. But as with all my other comments it was just a statement and wasn't bad intentioned and didn't warrant a public humiliation.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I told one person about it who called it yelling, another called it not yelling but a stern tone.
A current Codesmith student say this session and messaged me to apologize because they thought it was yelling and they were disturbed by it and felt bad for me.
The video was since removed so I don't think I can share anything from it, have to look up the rules and laws.
I don't want to fan any flames. Regardless of what he said in the video there are clearly some frustrations outside the context of the actual speech and sharing it would require full interpretation. I'm a rule follower and they have the right to remove me from their communities if they want for whatever reason and I have to respect that ban.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
My message goes both ways and I have asked corporate Reddit to look into both subs to try to advise on the situation. It's really bad for the Reddit ecosystem and both sides are claiming about violating the rules, so hopefully corporate Reddit can sort this by looking at who all the people are and seeing if there are disingenuous actors on either side they can remove or if there is anything else they can do to help increase the integrity of discussion.
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I attended an event recently and this is what I said in the chat throughout the entire event.
1. Early in Will was talking about one of my long time friends as the "founder" of React and "co-founder of Vercel". Maybe I misheard but I said in the chat that I know that person well and he doesn't call himself the founder of React and co-founder of Vercel.
Will responded to that with 'Tom said gest things about you, that you were one of the best engineers ever at Facebook'
2. Will suggested someone talk to a specific alumni and I said how awesome that alumni is.
3. Will mentioned the B1M YouTube channel and I said how awesome that channel is.
Then suddenly I got an email saying I was permanently banned from Codesmith's subreddit.
4. I commented that I was just banned from their subreddit and won't be able to participate in the AMA after. Their was no response.
5. Shortly after Will w…
Censored by Codesmith · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Moderator note: Codesmith, Alumni, and others - if you share a link and ask for voting, responses, or a "let's fix this" response, that violates Reddit's ToS and you are risking having your accounts not only banned from the sub but banned from Reddit.
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I didn't ask for formal comment no. I can't remember but I think it was either a codesmith account on Reddit, a comment on LinkedIn thread, or that I commented on or it was in a live stream over the past few months as they have been showing slides with Alex Zai giant face teasing the upcoming AI/ML.
It wasn't for official comment no and I wouldn't say that I asked formally enough or clearly enough to expect them to reply though.
I am banned from Codesmith's community, Slack, events, entirely so I have limited avenues as I intend on fully respecting their ban. Although they started sending me emails inviting me to events so I'm not sure anymore haha. The whole operation just has so many issue in executing the details you know and I'm always confused if they are intentionally sharing so much data (which common sense says they shouldn't) but then they acknowledge the problems.
Don't go to Codesmith from a Codesmith alumni · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Yeah, I'm kind of shocked in the past. People said that it would take two days sometimes to get a interview but like if on Friday, I had an interview come up and get scheduled for Tuesday or Wednesday and I needed to practice. I wouldn't even be able to remotely practice.
Regarding the viability of bootcamps · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I agree with downvoting, the person did the right thing and I was wrong, and shouldn't have gone to Codesmith in their case.
Regarding the viability of bootcamps · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Rithm has max 20 people per cohort and a dedicated super experienced teacher. It's more like having someone with more experience than Will Sentance (both teaching and in industry) being the primary instructor for your cohort.
The content itself is a little different and it's a little longer I think.
It's also 9am to 6pm every day instead of 9am to 8pm.
A bootcamp choice is very personal to your circumstances. If you don't really need to learn anything and are going for networking and support, education doesn't matter. If you want to learn how to program, it matters more.
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Yeah drugs are the biggest problem right now in SF, Fentanyl specifically. About 800 deaths last year and Fentanyl was responsible for 600 of them.
Regarding the viability of bootcamps · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
We had someone join us who wanted to do Formation with no experience. I told them to go to Codesmith and come to Formation in a year or two. Instead they got a role at a startup in another country and came to Formation after 6 months. Person just got a job at Google in a SWE adjacent programming role.
I don't think bootcamps work right now and would love to see something like the above. Training focused apprenticeships for people with zero programming training that are paid for via tax credits to big companies that pay for the person and more. The bootcamps could be more like level up tools to go from that to full time role. The anecdote above was a one off and not reproducible and a special person who is extremely driven with significant tech industry experience.
People getting jobs tend to rely on some creative representation of past work anyways and giving those people real training…
I touched grass · r/csMajors
u/michaelnovati replied ·
.... in VR?
JPMorgan Chase Emerging Talent Software Engineers October 2024 · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Mhmm. Ok you do you then!
Regarding the viability of bootcamps · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Sorry to hear. You're not alone. Feel free to DM me with more personal info about what city specifically and what roles. There's no magic answer right now but I want ot help give whatever advice I can and at worst it's useless haha.
Regarding the viability of bootcamps · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Good question, of all the people I work with (which as of 2023, require have signficiant SWE work experience already) about 1/3 or so when to bootcamps in the past and are on their second, third, forth, etc... job hunts.
Here are my thoughts:
1. Bootcamps aren't useless for everyone in 2024. SOME people do get jobs. If you are in a different job, doing amazing, want to change careers, have a natural affinity to programming, have a strong network, live in a location with lots of SWE jobs, have 1+ years of savings, ready to work really hard for a few years and possibly have a few false starts (hire and layoff), they consider a bootcamp, there will be no other way to do it.
2. For alumni later on, people are unique so each person you talk to has their own path. Some are very successful, some are struggling. So it's hard to hear just one person story and make decisions based off of it. De…
JPMorgan Chase Emerging Talent Software Engineers October 2024 · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Good luck with that approach then, like I said in reality every company and every human is different and extremely complex and nuanced, but I stick by my observations.
My team talks to recruiters, founders and leaders at all the top "silicon valley" startups yeah and who they want to hire and it's our job to stay on top of the trends across the industry.
I think we are talking about different scales of startups and companies. I'm also combining like 20 person company and $10B decacorn few hundred people company.
All of this is why we don't accept people with less than 2 YOE right now. All the top tier bes tin the world companies that we focused on placing at aren't hiring these people.
JPMorgan Chase Emerging Talent Software Engineers October 2024 · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
All the top tier startups with a small number of people hire senior engineers. An entry level engineer is considered net negative in producing value and you hire them to invest in getting them to a higher level where they have like 10X return on salary in impact.
What's an example of a startup that loaded up on entry level engineers and became a unicorn?
I have numerous examples of startups that did early to get people cheap and easy and then let most go if they made it to the next stage and got significant funding and hired senior engineers. Or they lay people off if they fail.
Again, talking about like the Anthropics, OpenAI, [Character.AI](http://Character.AI) and super hot top tier startups like Sierra, Perplexity, etc...
I'm not saying all of this is the way it SHOULD be, but it's the way it is.
I'm connected to thousands of the top tier startups, like pretty much any startup I…
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I said this before but my company benefits from more people going to bootcamps and if I feel like using my time in a personal capacity to help people go to bootcamps for the right reasons, that's on me to decide.
I was retired and I don't need to work a day in my life, I'm here to help and just because you don't like the way I try to help, I'm not going to go away.
JPMorgan Chase Emerging Talent Software Engineers October 2024 · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Yeah to clarify I'm EXTREMELY biased through the top tier company lens. I am confident in my views there. I do not feel as confident with lower tier tech and non-tech engineering roles, maybe normal confidence.
JPMorgan Chase Emerging Talent Software Engineers October 2024 · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Is it expected to grow for new grad and entry level roles?
I said this before, my own company would be growing like crazy if bootcamps worked and did well, so I'm extremely bias to wanting it to work.
But the industry won't get better by luring more people into it with exaggerated and carefully selected marketing.
It will get better with more programs like Emerging Talent at JPMC.
Pinterest's apprenticeship had like a dozen slots for 10K applicants.
The Supreme Court leans anti-diversity strategies are making companies deprioritize having staff focused on "diversity".
Companies are going back to traditional top tier CS schools for new grads.
ALL OF THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE to justify the existing of bootcamps.
And I hope it does.
JPMorgan Chase Emerging Talent Software Engineers October 2024 · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Oh wow that's unfortunate and ouch... like kicking the bootcamp industry while it's down :(
I feel so bad being real about the industry right now, I don't want to be this way, but people looking to spend $20K on a bootcamp need to know how it is before making that choice.
I feel even worse when alumni and staff from Codesmith go after me for telling the truth about this stuff. Coordinated downvoting my comments because they think they are bad intentioned :(
Is an associates in computer science worth it? As well as coding bootcamp? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
If you are auto-didactic and an edge case who will find a job through sheer will and natural ability, I might recommend doing WGU to get a degree on paper as fast as you can.
Don't go to Codesmith from a Codesmith alumni · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Yeah you know I respect your path too and good luck!
I think things have really changed with the alumni graduating now and late 2023 that talk to me.
I think the layoffs in Q3/Q4 really hit a lot of people hard. Some loyal instructors were let go, a bunch of career support people left too, so there apparently are fewer people to talk to, instructors have an eye on backup plans.
I know I annoy them by expressing my views on all this so openly because I get the vibe Codesmith does NOT want to talk about this stuff.
Our debates 2 years ago are tame compared to the stuff I'm getting now 😞