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u/Status-Remove559 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I dunno about you, but the moderator of this sub u/michaelnovati has been running a sustained campaign of harassment in Codesmith spaces (he's a competitor with too much time on his hands). I heard that he showed up and zoombombed an event recently and was asked, understandably,
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I attended an event recently and this is what I said in the chat throughout the entire event.
1. Early in Will was talking about one of my long time friends as the "founder" of React and "co-founder of Vercel". Maybe I misheard but I said in the chat that I know that person well and he doesn't call himself the founder of React and co-founder of Vercel.
Will responded to that with 'Tom said gest things about you, that you were one of the best engineers ever at Facebook'
2. Will suggested someone talk to a specific alumni and I said how awesome that alumni is.
3. Will mentioned the B1M YouTube channel and I said how awesome that channel is.
Then suddenly I got an email saying I was permanently banned from Codesmith's subreddit.
4. I commented that I was just banned from their subreddit and won't be able to participate in the AMA after. Their was no response.
5. Shortly after Will was presenting six alumni outcomes and one of them is no longer at the company stated as a week earlier on LinkedIn. I commented saying 'that person is no longer at that company as of a week or two ago, about six months from starting'
Will paused and yelled at me for 3 minutes straight (I have a recording and timed it) about how only positive and earnest discussion is allowed and how I've singlehandedly undermined their community that they spent 9 years building, and it was unacceptable to do so.
The next day I received an email to my work email (all of my Codesmith activity is under my personal one other than their Slack) and was banned from CSX Slack, and all future Codesmith events.
I have fully respected that ban by not entering Slack and not attending any events (other than watching YouTube recordings that are published for some).
They banned me and I respected it.
u/Status-Remove559 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
OK, Trump.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
My message goes both ways and I have asked corporate Reddit to look into both subs to try to advise on the situation. It's really bad for the Reddit ecosystem and both sides are claiming about violating the rules, so hopefully corporate Reddit can sort this by looking at who all the people are and seeing if there are disingenuous actors on either side they can remove or if there is anything else they can do to help increase the integrity of discussion.
u/Puzzleheaded-Row9244 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Wow he yelled at you in the information session?
Do you have a transcript of what he said?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I told one person about it who called it yelling, another called it not yelling but a stern tone.
A current Codesmith student say this session and messaged me to apologize because they thought it was yelling and they were disturbed by it and felt bad for me.
The video was since removed so I don't think I can share anything from it, have to look up the rules and laws.
I don't want to fan any flames. Regardless of what he said in the video there are clearly some frustrations outside the context of the actual speech and sharing it would require full interpretation. I'm a rule follower and they have the right to remove me from their communities if they want for whatever reason and I have to respect that ban.
u/madhousechild wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
> Shortly after Will was presenting six alumni outcomes and one of them is no longer at the company stated as a week earlier on LinkedIn. I commented saying 'that person is no longer at that company as of a week or two ago, about six months from starting'
Was this really necessa
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I have no idea why the person left and I didn't imply anything, but it was just a factual statement that the person isn't there anymore.
Was it necessary? Probably not yeah. But as with all my other comments it was just a statement and wasn't bad intentioned and didn't warrant a public humiliation.
u/Iyace wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
If Codesmith is a competitor, then it's not "too much time on his hands", right?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Both the statements are wrong haha:
1. We're not a competitor. We would be amazing partners in another world where Codesmith acknowledged us not as a competitor haha.
2. I don't spend much time on Reddit no, I know it looks that way, but it's just the way I am, I am always on and one of the most responsive people - if not the most responsive - out of anyone I've ever worked with. It's not fair for people to tell me who I am and what I do when they see 1/50th of what I do and make up their own narrative portraying it as 1/4 of what I do.
u/sourcingnoob89 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
[Formation.dev](http://Formation.dev), Michael's company, doesn't compete with Codesmith or any coding bootcamp. It's a fellowship program meant for experienced engineers.
For example, junior engineers who want to level up and land multiple higher paying senior engineer offers.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
This is correct, it's now more common for SENIOR engineers to join, competing and trying to get a leg up in the market. There are indeed a very small handful of edge case people without much experience who have joined in the past year (literally a handful - under 5) and each case was after many conversations and trying to convince them of other options. Just like there are a handful of engineers with experience who go to Codesmith. But that overlap isn't competition, it's an edge case.
u/madhousechild wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
> I didn't imply anything, but it was just a factual statement that the person isn't there anymore.
Maybe you chose that one detail out of their linkedin without ill intent, IDK, but I imagine others would infer otherwise. Why else would it matter? If you'd said, "Hey, they've a
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
If it means anything, I was in a similar talk in the past and made comments about other people too, because they were placed like a year ago and I didn't think that was "recent".
They ignored that comment and added dates to the newer version of the slides.
People who worked there talk to me and I think it's very passive aggressive to not ONCE contact me, ONCE (other than Eric Kirsten) and yet to post blog posts and videos, and wording to respond to the things I'm saying.
I'm more than happy to talk to people about this non-defensively and openly, and this conversation is great to have madhouse!
u/Status-Remove559 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Anything other than his narrative gets deleted or collapsed - see my comment below
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Again, I'm not collapsing any comments, and I've turned on "crowd control" on THREE POSTS EVER for LEGITIMATE REASONS.
Reddit has added more AI capabilities recently that more aggressively diminish the posts of people suspected of being bad actors.
Given how many new/low history/anonymous accounts come at me on here, I'm not surprised whatsoever that they get flagged as people "likely trying to break the rules". Reddit knows who everyone is based on their fingerprints and IDs. There are five so accounts that have been suspended from Reddit with similar posting patterns so when those people/person come back with new accounts... Reddit knows.
u/corrosivewater wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
That sub is so weird. It's just flooded with weird chatGPT essays.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Someone commented on one of them about awesome it was it.
I DM'd the person and told them that the post was identified as 100% chance of AI generated and they said I made a "derogatory comment".
u/sourcingnoob89 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Silencing dissenting views is something that totalitarian governments do. Enough said.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy
That's why comments with -10 are ranked higher than your +14 comment... voting manipulation. We've been monitoring people have been warned.
u/Briscoe77 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Wow the Codesmith bots are actually real lol Michael has provided a lot of necessary information educating potential bootcamp applicants what’s expected if they go down this route.
I wish he had this same level of critique with other top programs Rithm & Lauch School but Codesm
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Launch School lays out their outcomes here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLKHZYX8D78](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLKHZYX8D78)
Unsurprisingly if you are transparent there isn't any drama. When your outcomes are tanking, your alumni believe in you like a religion, and you don't acknowledge it publicly then you get drama.
Rithm School sadly is really small right now, running a small cohort every few months, so I still think it's a great place if you want high touch, high access learning. But their outcomes aren't that meaningful right now due to size.
u/buttholewax wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Almost $22k now! Because when your company is hurting - raise the prices!!!
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Codesmith has consistently raised prices every year, but I agree that in my opinion, that raising them this year with tanking outcomes is a bit arrogant, but I don't know their marketing strategy.
They just lowered the prices of JSB and CSPrep SIGNIFICANTLY like 75% off for CSPrep, so maybe they changing their view.
u/Deep-Mouse3775 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
u/DentistRemarkable193 Or should I say Michael Novati...?
You account has commented 28 times (other than this post). 28 comments in r/codingbootcamp. 28 posts all about Codesmith. All negative. Often, if not always, replying to or replied to (very quickly) by Michael Novat
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Want to know the best defense to bullshit trolls... INTEGRITY. No matter how much I get poked I play by the rules and I have integrity.
I have one account and I hope anyone making fake accounts to manipulate discussion gets banned for life.
I HAVE NOT BANNED A SINGLE PERSON FROM THIS SUBREDDIT.
If you can't fathom someone who is as responsive and productive as me then put yourself in a better network of people before this kind of bullshit.
u/Deep-Mouse3775 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
And yet within 90 seconds of you responding to this, I got three downvotes despite 8 people out of 50,000 online in the sub right now.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I downvoted you so count me in!
u/Deep-Mouse3775 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Several times it seems. And collapsed my comment. From the Mod God of integrity who just wants to open up discussions...
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I didn't collapse your comment. Sketchy accounts have their comments collapse by default. It's a new AI feature Reddit launched and it's turned on for this sub.
u/Deep-Mouse3775 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
So how come "OP"s account doesn't have comments collapsed and this post removed before it was approved by MODS?? Their history is beyond sketchy
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I have no idea, ask Reddit.
I haven't done any manual approval of comments on this post, I did approve the top level post but it wasn't flagged for anything or held up anywhere or flagged. I approve a lot of top level posts to note that I've reviewed them.
u/Deep-Mouse3775 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
So you approved it despite the account only having ever posted the same Codesmith attacks in it's short history?
Didn't give you pause for thought that it was set up purely to defame Codesmith (despite you now commenting regularly about how other accounts are being banned f
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I don't really know what to say, you seem down conspiracy theory lane and it's just all not true.
This post wasn't held up for review.
I said very clearly for the record that no accounts have been banned from this sub by me, temporarily or permanently.
What's your deal? Do you have questions thoughts?
As someone pointed out, a major part of the problem is no-one from Codesmith or otherwise never discusses or refutes the things I say with facts, it's all just made up stuff and bullying. A year or two ago people used to, and then I talked to those people and they say what I do and then they disappeared and we keep in touch on LinkedIn every so often.
I meticulous document, screenshot, capture, record, collect anything that I reporting facts on to show my work.
if you want to mudsling and play games you haven't seen the half of what I know.
And this why INTEGRITY is important, because I know who I am and why I'm here and I stick to my goal of trying to help people make good decisions about bootcamps, and not whatever games y'all are playing.
If Codesmith people (alumni and staff) waste time on provoking me you will not survive this year because your wasting energy, I'm a friend who wants to help make the industry, just in a different way then you want me to help.
u/Deep-Mouse3775 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
You appear recently to have called out accounts you beleive were made just to boost Codesmith. Yet you take no action against accounts made purely to attack Codesmith, this shows you are not a Mod with integrity, but instead use your position to faciliate this sub's (and your) ob
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Thought experiment.
So if we take it as fact that the Codesmith mods are banning people from their sub that have never interacted there. So far this is just a conjecture from the OP that I haven't seen evidence for, so I talked to OP privately about it and I feel it's likely true, but with the door open for someone to disprove it. For example if the Codesmith mods came to me and said they have never banned someone who hasn't posted something violating their rules in their sub then I might have to take action if it at my discretion that is more credible.
Now let's I really actually hated Codesmith, and wanted to attack them.
Why wouldn't I do the same? Why not just ban you all, delete all your comments. Wipe every positive trace of Codesmith on here. I'm responsive all the time, I could easily act on things super quickly and no one would see anything.
That's what I've personally experienced in that sub myself, comments deleted and people banned for questioning anything.
Why don't I do the same here?
If you think I'm bad intentioned, at least give me the credit to expect me to be the highest performing best bad person who really does the best job imaginable at taking Codesmith down.
What I do is not that. It's reasonable rational discussion.
Show me the harassment. Who have I harassed on a daily basis? Where is the proof that I'm aware of someone of home I'm bothering and intentionally trying to bother them?
Here's an example of harassment.... me telling someone they are saying something false about my company portrayed as fact and that it's bothering me and the person repeatedly saying that thing.
While no one from Codesmith has engaged with me directly on Reddit, I have had a few constructive back and forth emails with Eric Kirsten and it wasn't mentioned once that he or Codesmith felt I was harassing them.
u/frenchydev1 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Another thought experiment.
So if we take as fact that you have something against this bootcamp, hypothetically. The reason why you wouldn't ban everyone that said good things about a bootcamp would be that you'd know that's not the way to go about promoting another, adjacent p
u/michaelnovatireplied·
If that's what you would do, sounds like you have no integrity.
u/frenchydev1 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Hahahahaha nice one! Yeah a person with no integrity would 100% do that, your right! That's that good thing about thought experiments isn't it!
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Good job making this subreddit a better and positive place.
u/JustExisting2Day wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Could you elaborate, I have no idea why you are saying this or what it means.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
There have been a number of accounts suspended or flagged on Codesmith related threads (positive and negative) and we don't see that on any other posts on here. So it's a warning if someone shared a link with you and asked you to come here and do something that that is a policy violation.
u/JustExisting2Day wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Nevermind seeing your other comments is sort of filling the rest of the picture for me.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Yeah sorry, I could make it more explicit or clear. Like I had a thread of two anonymous accounts: one got AI-collapsed by Reddit, the other suspended by Reddit, both were making false claims but Reddit PROACTIVELY took action, so clearly some really weird stuff is going on in the sub. There's nothing remotely like this for other programs.
u/JustExisting2Day wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Is this the battle of coding boot camps trying to get the best reputation by any means necessary?
Because that's what it seems like and honestly, it seems like a 4 year degree in CS with experience isn't going to help this shitty economy for tech either. It's a sunk cost.
I've
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I honestly have no idea. I don't seen bootcamps battling with each other, but rather bootcamps just trying to stay alive right now.
I'm giving industry wide commentary and I often talk about Codesmith because while other programs acknowledge the struggles, Codesmith continues to double down on marketing such that I am frequently presenting a balanced view of that marketing.
My commentary has been well received and even helped people decide to go to bootcamps like Codesmith and Launch School knowing what they are getting into...
u/Big_Salamander_5096 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
They’re not really obligated to speak with you, and I don’t know how recent that was but it seems like tensions were already high. I’m the furthest thing from a Codesmith fanboy or apologist but yeah, half of this seems unnecessary. To post your thoughts on a general forum like t
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I think they are confusing other people's behavior with mine. I don't think I disrupted any events intentionally and the one time they didn't like my comment I was banned and left.
Repeated disruptions? I think that's not accurate. If you think that because Codesmith told you that and you have a negative impression of me, then those comments could be defamatory.
u/Big_Salamander_5096 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Lol. No this is squarely based off what you wrote, I think jumping to defamation is quite the leap and rather silly. I didn’t say repeated disruptions, I said I could see why they found your presence disruptive. You are known for your negative sentiment toward codesmith. You say
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
That's fair, I agree with that. If it means anything their Senior Advisor Eric actually invited me to an in person Codesmith event and while.ir didn't work out, he was aware I was going to attend an online event with the camera on.
I don't disagree with the arguments you are making, but Codesmith's framing of my presence in events.
u/Big_Salamander_5096 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Wasn’t aware, yeah that’s fair.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
This is a quote directly from a leader's work email on March 4th, 2024: "I heard from the team that you’ve RSVP’d for tonight’s info session - looking forward to seeing you there, and please let me know if you ever want to connect on a call."
Like I acknowledge my relationship with them is complicated and it's why I try to acknowledge the nuance all the time when I talk about them, but Codesmith has not been characterizing me fairly and if it's damaging my reputation, that's really not cool.