1. Thanks for clarifying the relationship with him, I will drop that. Do you know why he didn't request a comment? Journalism ethics 101.
2. You are seriously wrong about the "removed by moderator" thing. Many posts don't even show up in the mod queue. Once they do, they show internally removed by a moderator in addition, but publicly they all show the same message all the time.
The moderator is Reddit AI I guess.
There was a fake account on LinkedIn liking all their stuff that is now suspended as well.
With my moderator hat on, I'm being accused of bias while actively protecting Codesmith from the consequences of their own marketing decisions. I approve posts that should probably stay filtered. I give them more leniency than other bootcamps. I've consistently tried explaining how Reddit works and how to fix their reputation signals.
On my criticism of their program:
Yes, I've been critical of specific Codesmith practices since 2022 - whether bootcamp grads should present 3-week projects as "4 months of mid-level experience" or market themselves as "mid-level engineers" with zero professional experience. I have strong opinions backed by outcomes data and CIRR reports.
But that has nothing to do with how I moderate. I've been equally critical of other bootcamps like TripleTen, BloomTech, App Ac…
1. I spend most of my time coding not on Reddit: github.com/mnovati
2. Copied over first response
I'm going to focus on the MODERATION ACCUSATION first since that seems to be the main issue.
What moderating r/codingbootcamp actually looks like:
I don't own the sub - I report to the owner who asked me to help after I'd been one of the most active and helpful contributors. The coding bootcamp industry is absolutely infested with astroturfing. Brand new accounts, manufactured conversations, fake testimonials. It's constant daily spam trying to manipulate people making $15K-20K decisions.
My job is to support authentic discussion. We have above-average Reddit AI filters. We generally don't review flagged content because we can't tell who these suspicious brand new accounts are. Occasionally we approve legitimate posts caught in filters.
The accusation that I delete Codesmith's posts:…
I commented on the Moderation accusations first here and have not address other claims yet.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=45524707&goto=item%3Fid%3D45521920%2345524707](https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=45524707&goto=item%3Fid%3D45521920%2345524707)
people who joined for that reason are the ones who most often complain and feel misled because they didn't know what they were getting into. it's a completely rational reason.
A dozen or two in 1-1 conversations?
I didn't liken Codesmith to a sex-cult. I likened the statement that a person made 'go because X changed my life and the lives of many others' to the language used by people about joining cults in general.
I stand by that. I would never tell someone to go to Codesmith because "it will change your life".
You should have gone (until 2024) if you were extremely ambitious, successful in your previous job, a good communicator, and had a natural affinity to coding.
I can't summarize here because it's long and I have like an 8 page press briefing doc lol but you're right that there is more to the story. Like how they hired a Reddit hitman and the guy got dozens of accounts suspended. All of their instructors are a pyramid of graduates from the school itself. They lost their AWS root phone number and their website and email were down for 3 weeks. And dozens of other relevant facts.
There are two sides to every story and both sides should be heard.
Bootcamps are failing. Codesmith did very well in the good times but their grads were systematically exaggerating their Codesmith projects into average of 11 months (my Nov 2023 analysis of 50 grads). I still recommended people go there during those times, but I was cautioning the 'right people' should go there who know how it works and what they are in for.
Unfortunately even in 2024-2025 those tactics…
That's a fair point that I should dig more into the person, I accept that.
I was originally quite pissed off he wrote a piece entirely about ME PERSONALLY and didn't even ask me for comment.
This is Journalism 101 ethics to do that.
There are two sides to every story and I think Reddit is better off if I'm transparent about who I am. That opens up people guessing at my intentions, but they really should just ASK ME instead of making it up.
Just imagine the manipulation from anonymous mods that you have no idea what their biases and motivations are and I think that's worse.
Like for what! Salaries = what people in the jobs have told me. Future Code = public records with NYC and people who worked on it said the same numbers.
I'm being vague because I don't want on the record how much I know and the guy who wrote this really should have talked to me to hear my side. It would make for a better piece.
How could you possibly have those unless you are affiliated with Codesmith and if you are, why are you anonymously here. Like a thug in a back alley with a mask on throwing things at me in public.
Codesmith absolutely has a right to defend themselves against critcism and we both play by the same rules. The problem as I see it is that their defense is weak, they can't accept reality, can't adapt fast enough, and are trying to scapegoat me.
Codesmith had numerous accounts suspended, flagged, etc... and that's all on them for their behaviors, not me. I use just one account, in excellent condition for 10+ years.
It's desperate behavior from desperate people - throwing their careers in the garbage trying to find a scapegoat instead of accepting reality that the industry is falling apart.
how did he get those emails then? he sure didn't ask me for the evidence that you paid some guy to post things on Reddit and that the person you paid was a scammer with dozens of accounts
You clearly participated in this post because there are internal emails and metrics that only you could have provided them. so if it if you're saying you have no relationship with this individual, any of his companies, any of his brands and it's completely unrelated, then the person never once asked me for comment and to post such a extensive piece and then block me everywhere so that I can't comment is authoritarian censorship and I won't stand for it.
Pretty ironic that you are demanding fairer moderation and expressing political partisanship at the same time. look up what moderate means in the dictionary.
Codesmith hired a PR firm to try to go after me. It's desperate, embarrassing, and shameful.
But I learned they wasted $23.5M and still hired a PR firm with your tuition dollars to go after me.
Current students: spread the word and ask for your money back and get out!
We source thousands of job posts a week, match them up to you, source people to network with at the companies, provide personal intro messages for each one, etc....
We put a lot of effort into trying to help you.
BUT the fundamental fact is that there is no shortcuts in the current market. You can't pay to skip the line. The idea of "I will work really hard someone just has to give me a chance" doesn't work anymore and we're not going to lie to you and take your money.
You are paying us for us to tell you how it is and help you navigate it the best we can, but you have to do to the work if you want a new job - far too many others are willing to.
Why do you need to see false positives to feel better?
If you build it they won't come... no self fulfilling prophecy... bootcamps are melting down... it's like watching "Nailed It" and commenting on how amazing and world class the cupcakes are. Occasionally people make good stuff on the show but the premise is that the typical person on that show sucks.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
Codesmith gives away all of their CSX content in a single JSON file so you can turn it into anything with AI trivially.
The fact that they haven't updated it when I can grab this and improve it with AI in minutes is major incompetence.
Other places have open source content you can grab too.
But that fact is also why you won't get anywhere doing it yourself either.
It just goes to show you why bootcamps are failing and not even doing anything about it.
Icing on the cake is Codesmith is producing all these high production value marketing videos and patting everyone on the back for them and entirely missing the point....
Yeah, rumors of a 2 person cohort at HR. And Codesmith is publishing marketing videos with former actors that are like aime at 5 year olds "chugga-chugga-choo-choo, here comes the Expresss.js train!!!!"
We do lose some people who can't afford upfront but we have solutions to mitigate. You can split up the payments of the upfront portion, or get loans (sometimes interest free). This reduces the lost customer problem to a smaller set of people. But honestly, some people can afford it and only want to sign up if they can defer because they just don't want to pay anything upfront and those people tend to be ones that don't job hunt as intensely and aren't a good fit because they aren't serious about the job hunt to begin with.
We thought that if we give you a team of 4 staff members constantly checking in on you and pushing you along that people would keep the momentum going but if power didn't pay anything upfront it's very easy to be like "meh I'll apply to more jobs in two months after A, B, C happens".
We don't line people up with guaranteed jobs. We have a strong network and great co…
We have yeah, but we offered various kinds over the years that were subtly different and the problems are different, but for us, ISAs make way more sense than a bootcamp and the problem was people not taking their time seriously because they didn't pay anything upfront and just taking so long to place the math stops working. So we evolved the idea into about half upfront and the variable amount is based on how much you increase your base salary and paid after you start your new job. This is a compromise so people have some skin in the game to make use of their time and can defer a significant portion until later.
Modern ISAs are backed by banks and the programs get a portion upfront and really it's the bank that loses out instead of the worst case problem above and then the banks all stopped backing ISAs instead.
ISAs don't work.
The people who do them and are successful end up supplementing all the people who did it without caring, thinking free lunch, and not taking things seriously with the full intensity needed to succeed.
Because your loan is with Stride and not with Hack Reactor the collections will fall on them. If something is sent to collections you can try to negotiate a lump sum with the collector.
I can't advise on this because I don't know and I'm not giving legal or financial advice other than it can go to collections and they won't forget about it.
My personal opinions for dealing with any ISA. You likely have to pay them regardless of the source of income. Most recent ISAs (past 3-4 years) have been structured as a loan for the upfront cost that you have to pay back to the ISA provider.
ILLUSTRATIVE NUMBERS FOR EXAMPLE PURPOSES ONLY. So you took out a loan for like $15K or whatever from Stride to pay for Hack Reactor and you owe back $15K + an effective interest rate to cap out at say $20K. Your loan with Stride is governed by your contract with Stride.
So TLDR - you should be expecting to pay it and there's not much Stride can do about the loan terms.
You can try to get a partial refund from Hack Reactor to credit towards the loan and that might be an angle to talk to them about, but I would guess it's unlikely. Someone said the most recent cohort there had 2 students and I doubt they are in the mood to refund you unless cont…
It's more complicated. App Academy fell apart, then sold then sold the brand name to Coding Template and now their SWE program is just Coding Temple. The FAQ? Coding Temple. The Application? Coding Temple. The Support? Coding Temple.
Appl Academy is dead and Coding Temple bought their brand. The SWE course you see has NOTHING TO DO WITH PREVIOUS APP ACADEMY.
I mean it's even worse because there is almost no regulation. The difference though is that many bootcamps are small and independently run whereas for profit colleges require tremendous capital to get going and are more likely owned by for-profit private equity or public companies.
Not necessarily good or bad but just different pressures and issues.
Did you tell Leif (or Meratas or whoever is servicing this) it could also be a mistake. The school probably never cancelled it and it changed hands so many times it got mistaken? It's possible too and you should get the official state of things before jumping to next steps.
If you have documentation of requesting to withdraw I would send it to them and say that the bootcamp made some kind of mistake because you withdrew and never attended any classes and the emails are proof. Prepare those and send them in. Check your contract, it's possible that you still owe something if you notified them after a certain period of time after the course began. However, if you didn't make use of any resources, the bootcamp might have had some responsibility to stay in contact, where it could be implied you departed early on during your withdrawal.
I'm a moderator of the Coding Bootcamp sub and things have gone very sour there too.
Supply and demand.
When demand for engineers exceeded supply, no other source of supply could respond faster than bootcamps. During COVID, they produced coders in 12 weeks while Stanford took 4 years.
But bootcamp grads were always at the bottom of the barrel. They took longer to ramp up and even if their raw smarts were higher than someone else, the lack of experience set them behind and it would take years to catch up.
Many bootcamp grads eventually found their place and many others jumped job to job and had a very very hard time.
Many bootcamps shut down or scaled back and It's immoral to me that some remaining are marketing the success cases trying to convince you that now is still the time to do it.
Codesmith is one of the top bootcamps that exemplifies the rise and fall. It's now down to a t…
Not that this is absurdly wrong but I can't trust any online reviews after seeing the other side. Course Report is garbage in my opinion and they don't care if you send them undisclosed employees posting reviews for example. They give best bootcamps awards to programs with no reviews in the past year. Good intentions but dangerous nonetheless in my opinion.
I'm not backing down from anonymous accounts personally criticizing me using the same language and tone. That's for sure personal at least.
Codesmith doesn't have to shut down to make me happy. The other option is for Will and Eric to leave the company entirely and let Alina try to fix it without being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Will tries to approach things from first principles... the way he thinks it should be is the only way and is not distracted by or listening to others to change his mind.
The problem is that when called out for getting something wrong, he seems completely incapable of acknowledging it (at least in public) and instead either ignores it, or defends against it instead of addressing it.
Some of the best builders have this attitude but it only works when you are actually right at the right time.
Will has been wrong about too many things now and the com…
I checked this out a bit. So from this point forward they are having just one cohort live at a time, every 4 months or so. So if they content is static and they have just one 9 to 5 instructor then this can very much break even with like 5 people people, but it's definitely not rolling in the dough.
I suspect if it breaks even and all the backoffice is common then Galvanize wouldn't shut it down in case things took off again.
My question is what makes the day to day unique and how protected is it.
Someone (maybe it was Austen) published the project list and I can make all those projects myself this weekend.
Are AI experts reviewing the code and giving feedback?
I'm not being critical, but applying critical thinking.
My 2 cents:
\- giving people housing and a community creates strong vibes (similar to 42 School)
\- if the brand is strong enough, maybe some uniquely expert speakers can come in
If they recognize what makes them unique and go all in on that, then it will help.
If they think there is something special about the substance of what they are teaching then it will fail.