u/Free-Jackfruit8557 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Thoughts on this blog post alleging harassment (and worse) against Codesmith?
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
Codesmith hired a PR firm to try to go after me. It's desperate, embarrassing, and shameful.
But I learned they wasted $23.5M and still hired a PR firm with your tuition dollars to go after me.
Current students: spread the word and ask for your money back and get out!
u/befizzled wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Reddit mods abusing their power is nothing new, glad someone brings attention to this and gives a fuck
I'm not abusing any power, the piece is piece of shit post and Reddit would be lucky to have mods as moderate as me in more places.
u/befizzled wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Source?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
https://preview.redd.it/s06ysev70ytf1.png?width=2122&format=png&auto=webp&s=565056d7f0448e3fe657d0aa4b85003befd985dd
This is his company....
u/hello-codesmith wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Just to clarify, Codesmith has not hired any PR firm. Your claim is incorrect.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
What do you call Stone Brands? And what is your relationship to them? I'll use the words you use.
u/moreofthat_ wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Literally sounds like trump
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Pretty ironic that you are demanding fairer moderation and expressing political partisanship at the same time. look up what moderate means in the dictionary.
u/hello-codesmith wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
There is no relationship between Codesmith and Stone Brands. They have not been paid, employed, or commissioned by Codesmith for any work. Not sure where this information is coming from, but it is incorrect. And was it necessary to delete my original comment?
https://preview.re
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I didn't delete your comment.
u/hello-codesmith wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
There is no relationship between Codesmith and Stone Brands. They have not been paid, employed, or commissioned by Codesmith for any work. Not sure where this information is coming from, but it is incorrect. And was it necessary to delete my original comment?
https://preview.re
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited★ FEATURED
You clearly participated in this post because there are internal emails and metrics that only you could have provided them. so if it if you're saying you have no relationship with this individual, any of his companies, any of his brands and it's completely unrelated, then the person never once asked me for comment and to post such a extensive piece and then block me everywhere so that I can't comment is authoritarian censorship and I won't stand for it.
u/hello-codesmith wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Codesmith hasn’t paid, commissioned, or influenced the author in any way. He’s been writing independently about moderation on Reddit since early 2024, which you can verify through his own blogging history. The claim that this piece was paid for by Codesmith is incorrect.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
how did he get those emails then? he sure didn't ask me for the evidence that you paid some guy to post things on Reddit and that the person you paid was a scammer with dozens of accounts
u/Ok-Donuts wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Yo this thread is insane.
I’ve been following this subreddit for years, and Michael has consistently given fair and insightful takes on the state of the markets and boot camps. He has the background in engineering, runs a program that helps devs get jobs/ better jobs, has been
u/michaelnovatireplied·
It's desperate behavior from desperate people - throwing their careers in the garbage trying to find a scapegoat instead of accepting reality that the industry is falling apart.
u/Infamous-Cattle6204 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Even if it’s just a paid PR thing, every company has the right to defend themselves. Considering the strange e-mail and even the CS students complaining about Michael, the problem appears to be Michael. Dirty, abusive tactics smh
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Codesmith absolutely has a right to defend themselves against critcism and we both play by the same rules. The problem as I see it is that their defense is weak, they can't accept reality, can't adapt fast enough, and are trying to scapegoat me.
Codesmith had numerous accounts suspended, flagged, etc... and that's all on them for their behaviors, not me. I use just one account, in excellent condition for 10+ years.
u/hello-codesmith wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
There is no relationship between Codesmith and Stone Brands. They have not been paid, employed, or commissioned by Codesmith for any work. Not sure where this information is coming from, but it is incorrect. And was it necessary to delete my original comment?
https://preview.re
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Lied about the following:
Team make up
Amount of employees
Salaries of employees
Funding of business
Amount of money from future code
And many more. The body of evidence is company data you absolute clown. Generally you don’t post employee payslips online but of ummm laws?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
State specifically what lies and I'll give you my sources and if something was in good faith incorrect I'll fix it.
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Sorry that me posting the financial records of a business and employees personal records on a public forum is not something I want to do. I don’t care who you trust but probably aim to trust an actual person who had access to everything instead of some random dude moderator
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
How could you possibly have those unless you are affiliated with Codesmith and if you are, why are you anonymously here. Like a thug in a back alley with a mask on throwing things at me in public.
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I stated a few examples in my answer below. I can tell you your sources are nonsense because I was the was doing all the budgeting and payments. I was never your source so I have no idea where you got it from but it’s wrong. There’s no point fixing things buddy, it’s water under
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Like for what! Salaries = what people in the jobs have told me. Future Code = public records with NYC and people who worked on it said the same numbers.
I'm being vague because I don't want on the record how much I know and the guy who wrote this really should have talked to me to hear my side. It would make for a better piece.
u/Practical-Bobcat-653 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I seen some other posts from this subreddit and it's always some vague claim u do with no proof XD and then you post random things to effect how people think about a company. Once in your life, can you actually stop spamming words to affect chatgpt results and give an honest repl
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
That's a fair point that I should dig more into the person, I accept that.
I was originally quite pissed off he wrote a piece entirely about ME PERSONALLY and didn't even ask me for comment.
This is Journalism 101 ethics to do that.
There are two sides to every story and I think Reddit is better off if I'm transparent about who I am. That opens up people guessing at my intentions, but they really should just ASK ME instead of making it up.
Just imagine the manipulation from anonymous mods that you have no idea what their biases and motivations are and I think that's worse.
u/10israpid wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Honestly, it's quite curious why the moderator of this sub is so hyper-focused on weighing in on most conversations here. Even if Codesmith sucks and every single complaint is valid, I think it's better to let the conversation organically flow and for moderators to focus on rule-
u/michaelnovatireplied·
It's a good question to ask without making assumptions as to why. At the minimum to ask me.
u/LeadingPokemon wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This shit looks bad. Where’s the counter-argument? Is this mod spending most of his time railing another company with vitriol or not? The light of Reddit main page brought this to me, and obviously it’s a *tiny* bit biased.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I can't summarize here because it's long and I have like an 8 page press briefing doc lol but you're right that there is more to the story. Like how they hired a Reddit hitman and the guy got dozens of accounts suspended. All of their instructors are a pyramid of graduates from the school itself. They lost their AWS root phone number and their website and email were down for 3 weeks. And dozens of other relevant facts.
There are two sides to every story and both sides should be heard.
Bootcamps are failing. Codesmith did very well in the good times but their grads were systematically exaggerating their Codesmith projects into average of 11 months (my Nov 2023 analysis of 50 grads). I still recommended people go there during those times, but I was cautioning the 'right people' should go there who know how it works and what they are in for.
Unfortunately even in 2024-2025 those tactics don't work anymore, many other bootcamps closed down, people don't want to go to bootcamps anymore.
Codesmith seems delusional about the problems. I've talked to many staff members, alumni etc... and the message I got was that Codesmith has consistently blamed me for their problems and completely ignoring what's happening in the industry.
Rithm (which later closed down) cautioned people from going without acknowledging the market while at the same time Codesmith told people everything is great and to sign up. They are still telling people that 'now is the time to learn to code'.
I feel like their messaging is grossly misleading now and I call it out straight up and it's extremely reasonable to question it.
A lot of the staffing issues are because people are laid off overnight and staff are scarred. But instead of acknowledging the market's role the blame is on me.
I'm a very reasonable person. A person, with flaws. But very reasonable and we're missing important pieces of the story.
u/reddingdave wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
It's because Michael Novati runs a competing company.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
We're not a competitor no. We have maybe 10% overlap, but I've sent far more people to Codesmith because they were too early for interview prep.
u/reddingdave wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
How many people have you sent to a bootcamp that you likened to a sex cult?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
A dozen or two in 1-1 conversations?
I didn't liken Codesmith to a sex-cult. I likened the statement that a person made 'go because X changed my life and the lives of many others' to the language used by people about joining cults in general.
I stand by that. I would never tell someone to go to Codesmith because "it will change your life".
You should have gone (until 2024) if you were extremely ambitious, successful in your previous job, a good communicator, and had a natural affinity to coding.
u/reddingdave wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Lots of things can change the lives of people doing them: working out regularly, changing careers, spending time abroad, what have you. You deliberately chose not to take the straightforward reading of the person's statement that it was life changing (because it put the person on
u/michaelnovatireplied·
people who joined for that reason are the ones who most often complain and feel misled because they didn't know what they were getting into. it's a completely rational reason.
u/L4ShinyBidoof wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
What is concerning is that this blog did a very good job showing their sources and screenshots, and the best you can do is instead of countering each point systematically on why they are each misleading or flat out lies, you started off instead by attacking their characters. That
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
The author blocked me on LinkedIn before posting so I can't reply.
u/Tiny-Sun9851 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
what the hell are you talking about? none of this is relevant. stop going around in circles Michael Novati. try and respond to the questions at hand.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
What question do you have?
u/Free-Jackfruit8557 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Thoughts on this blog post alleging harassment (and worse) against Codesmith?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I commented on the Moderation accusations first here and have not address other claims yet.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=45524707&goto=item%3Fid%3D45521920%2345524707](https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=45524707&goto=item%3Fid%3D45521920%2345524707)
u/Hawtre wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I find your fervent attack and defence throughout this topic to be reminiscent of the gaslighting that often occurs inside cults
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I'm one person acting as an individual. You need a large group of believers to see cult-like behavior patterns.
u/MasSunarto wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Brother, this is the first time I reply here. So pardon the intrusion.
The questions by /u/LeadingPokemon:
- Where’s the counter-argument?
- Is this mod spending most of his time railing another company with vitriol or not?
Please answer those questions, /u/michaelnovati.
Th
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
1. I spend most of my time coding not on Reddit: github.com/mnovati
2. Copied over first response
I'm going to focus on the MODERATION ACCUSATION first since that seems to be the main issue.
What moderating r/codingbootcamp actually looks like:
I don't own the sub - I report to the owner who asked me to help after I'd been one of the most active and helpful contributors. The coding bootcamp industry is absolutely infested with astroturfing. Brand new accounts, manufactured conversations, fake testimonials. It's constant daily spam trying to manipulate people making $15K-20K decisions.
My job is to support authentic discussion. We have above-average Reddit AI filters. We generally don't review flagged content because we can't tell who these suspicious brand new accounts are. Occasionally we approve legitimate posts caught in filters.
The accusation that I delete Codesmith's posts:
This is not only false, it's the exact opposite of what I do. I regularly break the sub's rules to manually approve Codesmith content that Reddit's automated systems flag as spam. I shouldn't be doing this - the same rules should apply to everyone - but I do it constantly because their posts get caught unfairly.
Why are their posts getting flagged?
In mid-2024, Codesmith hired a marketing contractor to post on Reddit. Their CEO even sent me proof of this. They probably didn't know it at the time, but this guy was running one of the most extensive astroturfing operations I've ever seen. Dozens of high-karma sockpuppet accounts. Fake conversations across hundreds of subreddits promoting hemorrhoid cream, garage door openers, lava lamps, custom suits, you name it.
I helped uncover this network and Reddit nuked all those accounts. But Codesmith's legitimate accounts got tangled up in it, and Reddit's AI started auto-suspending them by association - IP addresses, posting patterns, behavioral signals.
I explained this to Codesmith. Multiple times. By email. By phone with their CEO directly. With screenshots. With specific suggestions on rebuilding trust signals through authentic engagement.
They accused me of "deleting their posts." I told them I was approving their content, not removing it. They didn't listen, didn't change their approach, and to this day their content gets constantly flagged.
The evidence is in their own sub, look at some of their official AMAs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1iduu2d/ https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1ilpihd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1gvazaz/
Go look right now. Count how many comments are flagged/suspended/deleted/collapsed. Roughly half get flagged by Reddit within weeks. Not by me - I'm banned from that sub. That doesn't happen with legitimate engagement.
(1/2)
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
1. I spend most of my time coding not on Reddit: github.com/mnovati
2. Copied over first response
I'm going to focus on the MODERATION ACCUSATION first since that seems to be the main issue.
What moderating r/codingbootcamp actually looks like:
I don't own the sub - I report
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
There was a fake account on LinkedIn liking all their stuff that is now suspended as well.
With my moderator hat on, I'm being accused of bias while actively protecting Codesmith from the consequences of their own marketing decisions. I approve posts that should probably stay filtered. I give them more leniency than other bootcamps. I've consistently tried explaining how Reddit works and how to fix their reputation signals.
On my criticism of their program:
Yes, I've been critical of specific Codesmith practices since 2022 - whether bootcamp grads should present 3-week projects as "4 months of mid-level experience" or market themselves as "mid-level engineers" with zero professional experience. I have strong opinions backed by outcomes data and CIRR reports.
But that has nothing to do with how I moderate. I've been equally critical of other bootcamps like TripleTen, BloomTech, App Academy. I recommend a dozen or two people go to Codesmith! At the same time I was questioning their marketing. My moderation standards apply to everyone except Codesmith, who I give more leeway to.
Bottom line: If I wanted to hurt Codesmith as a moderator, I would simply let Reddit's automated systems do their job. I wouldn't override the filters.
(2/2)
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Difficult when
**\[deleted\]**
Comment has been removed
This whole thread is littered with removed comments.
You should step down as a mod. I bet you won't though, will you?
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
Those are blocked by Reddit for various reasons.
u/hello-codesmith wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
In response to your notes about the article:
* Codesmith hasn’t paid, commissioned or employed the author of the article referenced
* There is no relationship between Codesmith and Stone Brands or any affiliated companies mentioned
* The article was authored and published by Lar
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
1. Thanks for clarifying the relationship with him, I will drop that. Do you know why he didn't request a comment? Journalism ethics 101.
2. You are seriously wrong about the "removed by moderator" thing. Many posts don't even show up in the mod queue. Once they do, they show internally removed by a moderator in addition, but publicly they all show the same message all the time.
The moderator is Reddit AI I guess.
u/Acceptable-Pepper-64 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I'm not a bootcamper-- because I've been in the industry for 15 years-- but you should not be moderating the speech of a competitor. That's unbelievably wrong and shameful of you to do.
Obviously you're doing this to suppress competition. I'd be happy to fund the lawsuit agai
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Why do you think I am a competitor?
u/UnArgentoPorElMundo wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
A coding bootcamp owner shouldn't be a moderator of the coding boot camp subreit. Clear conflicts of interest.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I don't run a coding bootcamp
u/digitaldisgust wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
u/michaelnovati I'd love to see you answer.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I'm going to respond to this one yeah, it's on my queue
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
PART 1 (there are comment length limits so going to reply in pieces)
HISTORY:
* Novati left Facebook in 2017.
In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strategic thinking.” The anecdote offers an early insight into his competitive approach to professional relationships.
The Risk story is true. I don't agree with the characterization.
* Novati left Facebook in 2017.
True.
* In 2019, he co-founded the coding bootcamp Formation with his wife, Sophie Novati, who assumed the role of Chief Executive Officer. Novati became Chief Technology Officer.
Not true. Sophie started a free coding bootcamp in 2017 called Buildschool. She realized that coding bootcamps were not a scalable business, so we founded Formation and subsumed Buildschool, a technology platform company focused on interview prep, in 2019 and got funding for that. The explicit goal was to not be a bootcamp and to work with bootcamp grads for interview prep and resume/project building. We no longer do project building aspect for many years and focus just on interview prep.
* In 2021, Formation raised a four-million-dollar seed round led by Andreessen Horowitz.
True.
* By 2024, Formation had reportedly ceased operating as a traditional bootcamp and shifted focus to a new model. The reasons for this pivot remain unclear.
We never operated as a traditional bootcamp - other than Buildschool from 2017 to 2019. There was no pivot and we are running the same platform we did since day 1.
* During this same period, Novati became the dominant moderator of the Reddit community [r/codingbootcamp](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/), a key online forum for the software-training industry. Other moderators listed on the subreddit had long been inactive, giving Novati de facto control.
Dominant is subjective because the other mods are just quieter, but I did become a mod more recently.
* From that position, Novati began posting extensively about a direct competitor, Codesmith. Over a period of 487 days, he published 425 negative comments or posts referencing the company—an average of almost one per day.
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
PART 2
* From that position, Novati began posting extensively about a direct competitor, Codesmith. Over a period of 487 days, he published 425 negative comments or posts referencing the company—an average of almost one per day.
Not true. I posted about Codesmith extensively prior to becoming a mod. I don't have a count, but a number of the comments are on spiraling threads with dozens of comments. I think the heat map of commenting on a given day is more telling.
* Approximately ninety percent of his statements concerning Codesmith were negative in sentiment.
I don't agree with that. I write multi paragraph comments with lots of sentiments in them. My overall tone has been increasingly negative since September 2024.
* Threads originating from r/codingbootcamp subsequently began ranking highly on Google searches for “Codesmith,” often displaying titles such as “Codesmith is an enormous waste of money.”
Those posts that I see are not my threads.
* These same Reddit threads were later surfaced in large language model outputs, effectively propagating Novati’s narratives beyond Reddit.
Again, those posts aren't my threads. I don't know what LLMs are serving up, but the Google ones I see are not mine.
* Novati employed associative rhetoric to undermine Codesmith’s reputation. In one instance, he compared positive student testimonials to statements made by members of the NXIVM sex cult, implying manipulation without making an explicit accusation.
I said that the language used by one individual was the type of argument people made about going into cults. Not that Codesmith was a sex-cult. I used NXIVM because they were a business focused coaching service focused on leveling up, not because of the sex-cult aspect.
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
PART 3
* He made repeated allegations of nepotism against a Codesmith employee after discovering that the employee’s wife had completed a one-time contract with the company and that their son later enrolled as a student.
I made that claim once or twice.
* Novati researched the son’s LinkedIn profile, referred to him publicly in Reddit threads, and contacted Codesmith executives directly by email to repeat his allegations.
This is not correct no. A GitHub project I saw just happened to have the person on it that I recognized the last name of and I looked at their LinkedIn. I then emailed executives about it because his dad is the lead career/negotiation advisor and I figured it he likely looked over his son's resume and LinkedIn that contained significant exaggerations.
* He subsequently advanced claims that Codesmith students were falsifying résumés through their participation in “open-source product” coursework, and that Codesmith was complicit in this activity.
This was since day one, not recent. It started when I interviewed two Codesmith grads blatantly lying about their projects as if they were jobs back in 2021/2022ish.
* Codesmith’s published student guidance explicitly instructs graduates to represent their project experience transparently, contradicting Novati’s claims.
This correct that their guidance says this. The vast majority of people don't follow that because of systemic issues at Codesmith, and the reason I discuss this is because of this contradiction.
* He escalated these assertions by suggesting that Codesmith and the nonprofit OSLabs were “conspiring to commit fraud,” despite there being no evidence of any financial or procedural wrongdoing.
I said that signing fake job letters was wrong and I stand by that. But this one is a whole post on it's own and I won't go into it all now.
* The relationship between Codesmith and OSLabs has been publicly described as a standard repository-management arrangement with no financial exchange.
Codesmith operates OSLabs day to day. The "director" of OSLabs repeatedly directed my questions about OSLabs to the Codesmith team
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
PART 4
* Formation students have been shown to list their own training in a similar fashion on their CVs, which undermines the basis of Novati’s criticism.
They do not in general. The example used was from 5 years ago when someone who did project based work at Formation that hasn't been offered for a while. Of the small number of people that list Formation, the vast majority, it's clear from the descriptions what it is. Codesmith students are crafted to appear like jobs and it's so bad we had to train our team to recognize Codesmith experience and not count it.
* Across numerous threads, Novati used overlapping or contradictory accusations to generate confusion and impede fact-checking.
This is a generalization. I protect the individuals that talk to me so I don't show their DMs.
* He deleted comments, including his own, to distort the visible record of conversations and to suggest consensus where none existed.
I edit comments a lot, both for grammar and for fact checking if I receive new information.
* He repeatedly accused Codesmith of operating “bot accounts” to justify the removal of posts defending the company.
This is not entirely correct, but also too long to explain here.
* His activity often intensified around periods of positive publicity for Codesmith, indicating a deliberate pattern of targeted disruption.
I respond to news events so if Codesmith published something I often offered commentary. This wasn't a deliberate pattern no. I equally responded to negative Codesmith events.
* The effects on Codesmith were significant. Employees reported severe stress, morale decline, and fears of online harassment or doxxing. Several staff members left the company.
This I have no idea about, no one told me about any of this before hand. The people I talked to that left said that they left because of a bad working environment at the Company.
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
PART 5
* Prospective students withdrew applications after encountering the negative threads on Reddit.
* Codesmith’s revenue declined by approximately eighty percent, with about half of that attributed directly to the sustained Reddit campaign.
I can't comment on the number of applications because I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm curious how many this actually is.
The article grossly overstates the impact of Reddit on their funnel and understates the impact of the market. Their main competitor entirely shut down and their other main competitor is scaling back. For all I know all the talk about Codesmith kept their numbers UP when they would have shut down otherwsie.
* The company’s headcount fell from seventy to fifteen employees.
I believe this is true and the entire industry has experienced huge layoffs of similar magnitudes - and entire shutdowns.
* Founder and former Chief Executive Officer Will Sentance resigned, citing personal toll and self-doubt following the continuous online attacks.
He never once cited that personal toll publicly. All of the public statements indicate that he was focusing on teaching instead of running the operations of the company because he wanted to do that more.
* After his resignation, Novati continued posting about Sentance, including comments concerning his academic fellowship at Oxford.
I don't remember commenting critically about his fellowship. Do you have the source?
* Former Codesmith instructors and students stated publicly that they distanced themselves from the organisation due to the hostile environment created by the Reddit activity.
The ones I talk to are distancing themselves because of Codesmith's lack of adaptiveness to a collapsing job market. They don't feel comfortable telling people to go to any bootcamp in this market.
* Founders of competing bootcamps, including Tech Elevator and App Academy, have publicly described Codesmith as a reputable and high-performing programme. The endorsement of direct competitors further contradicts Novati’s claims.
Codesmith is a reputable program yeah. I said that many times in my commentary. That doesn't mean there's more to it than that
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
PART 6
* Independent data from the Council on Integrity in Results Reporting (CIRR) verifies Codesmith’s student outcomes, showing around seventy percent of graduates securing relevant employment within one year and median salaries of approximately $110,000.
CIRR is not independent. It's a 501 6c business group/like a lobbying agency. It's charter is to represent bootcamps.
* Reddit’s Moderator Code of Conduct prohibits moderators from using their position for financial or competitive advantage.
I don't believe I am competing with Codesmith and my commentary hasn't changed from before and after being mod.
* As a co-founder and equity holder of Formation, Novati stood to benefit financially from reputational harm caused to a rival institution. This represents a direct conflict of interest and a potential breach of the moderation code.
I don't agree with this at all. We work with bootcamp grads later in their careers because they have a lot of gaps to fill and more bootcamp grads -> more customers. I believe I have an incentive to PROMOTE bootcamps.
* Despite clear evidence of this conflict, Reddit administrators have not intervened, and Novati continues to moderate the subreddit.
Again, disagree.
* Novati can be seen today deleting comments and engaging in this continued unhinged behaviour.
I don't often delete comments. I've stated this many times and there is a sticky in this sub explaining it too. Read the sticky
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy
\-> I'm going to respond to the questions later today
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I hope you will, the evidence so far is damning
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I commented on the historical record ones. The questions I'm going to respond to sometime today.
u/UnArgentoPorElMundo wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
so what is the story with you and this other company then? the blog post is very detailed.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I need a blog post of equal length to explain that and am deciding if I should or not.
Formations's founder Sophie started a bootcamp in 2017.
In 2019 I joined her to start Formation after deciding bootcamps are not a good business model and we wanted to build an interview prep platform to help bootcamp grads land better jobs later on, rather than compete with bootcamps.
The explicit goal and reason we raised funding was to NOT BE A BOOTCAMP.
u/UnArgentoPorElMundo wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
So why are you even the mod of something you don't believe in? Shouldn't you resign and look for someone else, ideally a group of people to take over?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
In observing bootcamp can't market and seeing all and knowing a bunch of people in the industry, there are some really good things and some really bad things and I feel like the marketing does not align with what I saw in reality and I want to moderate that thanks.
This sub isn't for or against bootcamp, it's about discussing them.
u/L4ShinyBidoof wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
The most active mod on the most active coding bootcamp subreddit publicly confirms he does not believe the bootcamp model works.
Said mod happens to financial profit from posting about how the most popular bootcamp is bad and offers his business model as the better solution.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
We are not a replacement for bootcamps. If someone is considering going to bootcamp we are not an option instead.
u/TheQneWhoSighs wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This Michael dude is pathetic. His only response is "This is paid for PR".
Lets assume it was. None of it makes your blatant biased comments any better, bud.
They didn't make up an issue, they just pointed it out. You're the one that set the fire.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I completely agree my initial response was a terrible response and edited it quickly. It was a mistake.
I replied an hour ago with 6 part posts going through a list of points from a commenter you should read and I'm not done yet.
u/Dehast wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I’m a mod and can tell that’s probably not true. Also very easy to prove
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I've posted screenshots.
This sub has above average Reddit filters turned on. Read: [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1dxraob/moderator\_note\_promoting\_high\_integrity/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1dxraob/moderator_note_promoting_high_integrity/)
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited★ FEATURED
PART 7
1. How do you reconcile your position as a Reddit moderator for [r/codingbootcamp](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/) with your financial interest as co-founder of Formation, a direct competitor in the same industry (at one time, at least)?
My company is not a direct competitor and was founder after our founder ran an actual bootcamp and say more opportunity helping bootcamp grads from all bootcamps instead of competing. We in fact have positive relationships with Codesmith's direct competitors Rithm (now closed) and Launch School (who recommends us to their grads).
1. Have you disclosed this conflict of interest to Reddit administrators or the community you moderate?
I'm transparent about who I am on here, I use my real name, and I was very active here for a year or two with the same content I have now before I became a mod.
1. Between 2024 and 2025, you posted hundreds of negative comments about Codesmith: why has no other bootcamp received the same level of scrutiny?
In volume no... a lot of the comments are spiraling arguments. But I know Codesmith, BloomTech, Launch School and Rithm very well and I spoke about them all, but if Codesmith is the 'best bootcamp' then its fair to use them as an example often. I post updates and reports about a number of bootcamps.
1. On what evidence do you base your repeated claims of “fraud” or “deception” by Codesmith students and staff?
I didn't repeatedly claim fraud, I don't want to use legal terms incorrectly. I claimed that it's my opinion that it's wrong to sign letters of reference for 4 to 12+ months of 'software engineer' work at a charity called OSLabs when people did 3-4 weeks projects.
I have a direct copy of such a letter and evidence of staff telling people they sign off on their entire time at Codesmith for these 3-4 week projects.
I have evidence that Codesmith staff control the charity and the projects within them and have been directed by OSLabs a number of times to Codesmith staff.
I have evidence of students having issues with background checks and Codesmith staff responding to help sort it out.
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
PART 8
1. Why did you compare Codesmith to the NXIVM sex cult, and do you consider that comparison proportionate or responsible?
I didn't compare Codesmith to a sex-cult. I commented that someone's reason for going there 'it changed my life and the lives of many others' is something that I hear in cult documentaries on HBO, which I stand by as my opinion.
Codesmith is not a sex-cult.
1. Do you accept that implying cult-like behaviour without evidence may constitute reputational harm?
If you state as a fact or with fraudulent/nefarious intention then that would be wrong to me regardless of harm. I have full right to share my personal opinions on Reddit that are solely my personal opinions through my lens and people can agree or disagree with those opinions.
1. Did you personally research and contact a Codesmith employee’s son on LinkedIn before emailing the company about him, and if so, why was this considered appropriate?
I was looking at a project that another Codesmith student did and noticed the person's name on it and it sounds familiar. I then looked him up and say that his 3 weeks on the project were presented as many months of experience on his LinkedIn and emailed the staff. His dad is the main career advisor so I guessed that he would have given feedback on his resume and LinkedIn and found that inappropriate.
1. How does such conduct align with Reddit’s expectation that moderators act “with integrity” and without personal harassment?
Those seem subjective, but I believe I act with integrity on Reddit.
1. You have accused others of using “bot accounts”: what independent verification supports this claim?
I never accused Codesmith of using those accounts but someone or some people are. There have been a rotating cast of suspended moderators in the Codesmith subreddit for example and I have screenshots of some of that.
I did a deep dive on the guy they paid to post on Reddit and his network of accounts were all suspended and a number of the ones that were going after me about Codesmith were suspended. After this guy was removed almost all of that stopped or at least was significantly reduced. I have a ton of screenshots, printouts etc... of these accounts
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
PART 9
1. Have you ever deleted posts or comments from\*r/codingbootcamp that defended Codesmith or challenged your statements?
I don't remember. I rarely delete posts. If people make provably factually incorrect statements as facts and not opinions is the only time I would consider removing something. Like "It's a fact you beat your spouse" is something that would be removed if there is not evidence of that fact.
The one thing I remember doing is if accounts are later suspended from Reddit and I see their content I I remove it. Sometimes Reddit does this automatically sometimes they don't. This could be biased because I'm more likely to read my own past content and see these there than other places.
1. Have you ever used your moderator privileges to pin or highlight negative material about competitors?
Not that I know of - or at least not with that intention. I consciously allow critical discussion - like this entire thread. For pinning specifically, I don't think it's appropriate
1. Why does your posting frequency about Codesmith increase following its public announcements or successes?
Public announcements yes, that's normal imo for any kind of news or announcement. Successes? No, just announcements.
1. Do you acknowledge that r/codingbootcamp threads now dominate Google and AI search results for Codesmith, amplifying your personal opinions into public record?
I don't acknowledge that no, nor was that ever the intention or even crossed my mind in any ways at all that I can remember. If it's happening I can look into it more.
1. Are you aware that Reddit’s Moderator Code of Conduct prohibits receiving \*any- material or competitive benefit from moderation activity?
Yes I'm aware of that, but I don't believe I have received such benefit. My company isn't even doing that well either!! My personal reputation is probably harmed more than good from being critical of coding bootcamps.... people don't like "no" energy
u/INTERNET_POLICE_MAN wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
## History so far:
- In 2009, Novati joined Facebook as a software engineer, progressing rapidly to the level of Principal Engineer (E7). He has publicly recounted a story about a game of Risk in which he deliberately betrayed Mark Zuckerberg, framing it as an example of “strateg
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
PART 10
1. Given your ongoing ownership in Formation, do you accept that your actions could reasonably be viewed as financially motivated?
I don't accept that whatsoever no.
1. Has Formation’s pivot away from bootcamp training coincided with your campaign against Codesmith, and if so, is this related?
Formation never had a bootcamp training model, and never pivoted away from it. We've had the same platform since day one. The target audience has shifted more and more senior. We used to years ago have like 1/3 people bootcamp grads post graduation without work experience, 2/3 of people experienced software engineers. Now we have 99% of people with 2+ years of work experience. Nothing has actually changed internally, same platform, same interview prep, same mentors.
1. How do you respond to the observation that Formation students list their own training on LinkedIn in the same way you condemn Codesmith graduates for doing?
I might need to give a full answer separately but will try in less space here. This is not correct.
Approximately 20% of people even list Formation on their LinkedIns at all and most of them represent it properly as a mentorship fellowship program to level up their skills and be mentored from senior industry engineers.
Approximately 80% of people at Codesmith list their projects as 'experience'. They are open source projects positioned strategically adjacent to a "Projects" bucket that makes them look like real work (why not just add to the projects bucket too?) The descriptions are all similar \~5 bullet point outlines. And some have brief mentions of 'Incubated by Open Source Labs' at the end. Some don't and link to company pages that look like companies by say Open Source somewhere on them.
The result is that Codesmith has an established process to for 'employment' verifications (that I have captured) for all these people. I can't remember if/when Formation was asked for an 'employment verification' for someone and it's not something we have a process for or deal with day to day.
1. Will you release a full list of deleted or moderated posts concerning Codesmith to allow independent review of your moderation record?
I don't have that no.
1. Finally, do you consider this pattern of obsessive focus on a single competitor to be compatible with the role of an impartial community moderator? Deletion of this comment will be added to evidence.
I don't believe I'm partial no. Everyone has biases of some kind and I'm completely transparent about who I am. I'm very concerned about anonymous accounts, like the rolling cast of suspended moderators of the Codesmith sub, managing subreddits in the shadows. I think it's a community strength that people can respectfully challenge me.
u/peelfoam wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
The only real question is.... "Why are you so obsessed with me"
I'm not even really joking. I feel like the only thing I'm really missing from this story, both from the article and from Michael's responses, is why in god's name an adult man in the world is spending so much time
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I feel like I've explained this numerous times but I guess there is a new audience now from this post. I have been transparent about this the entire time and the author didn't even mention that and created a new narrative instead.
It's not really fair to summarize '1000 comments' without presenting the consistent arguments I've made in those comments, and instead pulling out the juicy ones.
1. Codesmith markets itself as a zero -> mid-level bootcamp that turns people with no experience into mid-level and senior engineers. I feel this is bad for the people whether they get those jobs or not. I've seen the struggles of bootcamp grads once in the industry and I think that taking entry level roles and apprenticeships is the right path for these people. This is a very fair opinion but Codesmith feels completely attacked by this.
2. Codesmith presents their 3-4 week open source projects as 4 months of mid level software engineer experience. I looked at those projects. Most don't work well, have major bugs, bad code issues, security issues, etc... and I pointed these things out. People fish for "GitHub Stars" Medium clasps, etc... and learn how to hype up their projects, but no one actually uses them. Then Codesmith markets the hell out of those stars and frames these a very important projects in the industry. Codesmith didn't take them seriously and continued marketing the projects instead of reflecting on them. I brought this up to their CEO and she stands by the projects. There's clearly a difference of opinion and I stand strong in presenting my side because I vehemently disagree with Codesmith's framing.
Both of these are my consistent criticism that I wish they at least acknowledged and listened to, but they instead see those as attacking their identity and defend with these kinds of attacks they've made.
u/MustachMulester wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
God I hope Codesmith has lawyers in this thread. What are the odds Michael is arrogant enough to have bragged to his friends about the damage he’s doing to Codesmith over text or instant message?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Where did I brag to friends about damaging a business?
u/Junior_Hand_5380 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
99% of posters are either Michael Novati alts or Codesmith alts LOL
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I don't have any alts, just this account.
u/TheWhitingFish wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
He sure does, people use google to do their research, and when they search Codesmith, this subreddit shows up with right beneath the Codesmith website. The fact that he has been shitting on Codesmith continuously for years will definitely cause a drop to the amount of application
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Why did Rithm shut down then? Why did Hack Reactor and Tech Elevator lay off huge amounts of staff? Why did Launch School cut back to 2 cohorts per year?
And how is Codesmith different and immune to all those effects?
u/TheWhitingFish wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Let me ask you this, why did you, out of all the bootcamps and institutions out there, write negative posts and comments on Codesmith consistently and almost daily for the past few years?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I have been extremely consistent about my criticisms overall and they are very valid criticisms.
>Codesmith markets itself as a zero -> mid-level bootcamp that turns people with no experience into mid-level and senior engineers. I feel this is bad for the people whether they get those jobs or not. I've seen the struggles of bootcamp grads once in the industry and I think that taking entry level roles and apprenticeships is the right path for these people. This is a very fair opinion but Codesmith feels completely attacked by this.
>Codesmith presents their 3-4 week open source projects as 4 months of mid level software engineer experience. I looked at those projects. Most don't work well, have major bugs, bad code issues, security issues, etc... and I pointed these things out. People fish for "GitHub Stars" Medium clasps, etc... and learn how to hype up their projects, but no one actually uses them. Then Codesmith markets the hell out of those stars and frames these a very important projects in the industry. Codesmith didn't take them seriously and continued marketing the projects instead of reflecting on them. I brought this up to their CEO and she stands by the projects. There's clearly a difference of opinion and I stand strong in presenting my side because I vehemently disagree with Codesmith's framing.
u/davemillersthrowaway wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This… does not answer the “real question” mentioned above. Get a life, slimeball
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Why am obsessed you mean?
I don't have an answer to that because I feel obsessed with my actual work and have 8000 commits this year I think, and don't use Reddit that often.
Maybe I'm just not aligned here and I need to think about it or process it more.
u/reddingdave wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
How did you get various emails and internal documents related to Codesmith? Do you have the same for other bootcamps?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Their founder shared most of them in public sessions.
u/minusSeven wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
> Not true. Sophie started a free coding bootcamp in 2017 called Buildschool. She realized that coding bootcamps were not a scalable business, so we founded Formation and subsumed Buildschool, a technology platform company focused on interview prep, in 2019 and got funding for th
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Bootcamps are meant for people who aren't software engineers to transition into the industry.
Formation helps engineers in the industry prepare for interviews.
u/L4ShinyBidoof wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
His website claims they prep existing engineers to level up into their next stage in their careers and that it is not a bootcamp. Therefore he claims he is not a competitor to other bootcamps.
Unfortunately for him, his generalization of all bootcamps does not fit neatly for Cod
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I know 3 people off the top of my head that did Formation that could have done Codesmith, out of like thousands or so.
They are completely different programs for different people, but everyone is unique and there are some edge cases that overlap.
I explained this all to Codesmith leaders for years (Eric via email, Alina via phone) and I would love nothing if we could get on the same page about what Formation is relative to Codesmith.
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
PART 9
Have you ever deleted posts or comments from*r/codingbootcamp that defended Codesmith or challenged your statements?
I don't remember. I rarely delete posts. If people make provably factually incorrect statements as facts and not opinions is the only time I would consi
u/michaelnovatireplied·
https://preview.redd.it/ass3v0qvv4uf1.png?width=1550&format=png&auto=webp&s=0f6fa4089700d1cb9be2571753d0e4e92959e861
This is what I see. I haven't deleted these?
u/aldehyde wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
and for you it is about discussing why one in particular is SO BAD
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I reviewed my top level posts and I see discussion about a lot of bootcamps and things. What do you see?
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
<image>
This is what I see. I haven't deleted these?
How do I tell if you are a scammer trying to break the rules or not? This explains our philosophy: https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1dxraob/moderator_note_promoting_high_integrity/
u/michaelnovatireplied·
What exactly are you accusing me of then? Faking the screenshots?
u/TheWhitingFish wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Now he brought in his commits. 8000 / 365 = 22 commits per day = roughly 1 commit per hour if he doesn’t sleep. Plus running this subreddit and responding and writing essays here. The math is not mathing here.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I only spend about half my time coding so that's not right. it's more like one commit every 5 to 10 minutes while I'm coding
u/L4ShinyBidoof wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I'm using your own marketing tools directly from your website to frame how similar you two are in good faith.
I even went ahead and DOM manipulated the chart here to illustrate the point better.
https://preview.redd.it/t1pjtr5805uf1.png?width=666&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e233994
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Part of the disconnect is what those things mean. We're talking about preparing you for FAANG jobs at the senior level.
Codesmith does not prepare you for FAANG senior jobs, does not have deep market understanding for negotiation of those jobs, etc...
That debate IS the 3 year story here and it's more boring and nuanced than sensationalism.
u/Lubu-santego wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
What Michael would say.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I have one account, that's not me
u/Lubu-santego wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
No. You’ve shown your true colors, and they match the article’s portrayal of you.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I think the article portrays me more like a robot mastermind and I would say that I'm more of a human - flaws and all.
u/darwinn_69 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Do you understand why your leadership position in a IT Education company and mod of this sub would create the perception of corruption?
Why do you think the community isn't believing your 'explanation'?
Your answer that you aren't competitors is incredibly disingenuous. Just
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I don't agree but I respect and allow you the space to make your points of view heard.
u/TheWhitingFish wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
It’s funny how in that moderator note it uses the word “We” when other moderators are clearly inactive. It should change to “I, Michael Novati, controls this subreddit”
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Why do you think the other moderators are inactive?
u/darwinn_69 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
If you actually respect me then you would answer the questions and not try to tap dance your way around it.
Do you understand how your actions have created the perception of corruption?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I don't really believe in absolutes. I understand the perception. I responded in a 10 part comment in this thread [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1o1guxj/comment/nikv1ts/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1o1guxj/comment/nikv1ts/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I don't agree with the perception but I understand that many people feel that way after reading that article.
u/heftywaffles wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
"don't use Reddit that often".
I don't think you can say that when you spend multiple hours on it every single day. I only code for fun and even I know number of commits mean nothing. People can commit for every little change. Zero proof of quality of work.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
That's incorrect.
u/heftywaffles wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
https://preview.redd.it/0c4fzcz265uf1.png?width=1610&format=png&auto=webp&s=a39f651ad1b5606b054b2860d7aeb584288a43df
Complains about people calling Codesmith "life changing" and then proceed to use the exact words himself. How can you not see your own bias? (please do not edit a
u/michaelnovatireplied·
yes I'm quoting the two extremes that people identify.
u/aldehyde wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I see you spinning a PR defense campaign, that's what I see.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Maybe now-suspended fake accounts promoting Codesmith have been egging me on for years to create a paper trail of hundreds of negative comments of me not standing for that behavior.
Conspiracy theories can go both ways. That's why journalist talk to both sides.
u/reddingdave wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Maybe they've moved on with their lives and interests, whereas you run a company that is in a similar space to bootcamps?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Sorry I meant why do you think they aren't actually active? One of them is quite active in moderation and doesn't say much publicly.
u/Free-Jackfruit8557 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Thoughts on this blog post alleging harassment (and worse) against Codesmith?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Believe it or not I've removed my own comments as a Moderator if they have been reported and are being removed for the consistent reasons that others are.
Maybe I'm a weird person but it's very unfair to not hear my side of the story.
u/some_muslim_guy1 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Funny you say this. This gives more crediblity to Michael. Because before (when as you say he was competing with Codesmith) he was praising Codesmith. Now, when he's not competing, he's bashing them. Should be the opposite if there was a bad motive!
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Good observation, something the author should have talked to me about.
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Believe it or not I've removed my own comments as a Moderator if they have been reported and are being removed for the consistent reasons that others are.
Maybe I'm a weird person but it's very unfair to not hear my side of the story.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
https://preview.redd.it/amvm6bfwk5uf1.png?width=1498&format=png&auto=webp&s=59fcf0aae2c386969b957f21df4810ee1dd25615
I am not deleting your posts, you are being flagged left right and center all over the place by Reddit's algorithms
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I think the article portrays me more like a robot mastermind and I would say that I'm more of a human - flaws and all.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
An this everyone is why my "negative" comment count is so high. People like this in spiraling threads.
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
<image>
I am not deleting your posts, you are being flagged left right and center all over the place by Reddit's algorithms
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Yes, it's explained in the sticky. Why don't the rules apply to you? You just saw how I even apply them to myself, but not you?
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Yes, it's explained in the sticky. Why don't the rules apply to you? You just saw how I even apply them to myself, but not you?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I'm not deleting your comments
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Yes, it's explained in the sticky. Why don't the rules apply to you? You just saw how I even apply them to myself, but not you?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
https://preview.redd.it/v9m3hq9xn5uf1.png?width=774&format=png&auto=webp&s=68aff3d48c6ed7d7dff4acc781855f93babc8fba
I see this on each one of those posts
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Believe it or not I've removed my own comments as a Moderator if they have been reported and are being removed for the consistent reasons that others are.
Maybe I'm a weird person but it's very unfair to not hear my side of the story.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I'm not deleting the comments and the fact that you keep saying that is making your account in worse and worse and worse shape.
u/reddingdave wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
It's because Michael Novati runs a competing company.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
1. We compete on new AI stuff programs for existing engineers, that came out a month or two ago for us, I acknowledged that, and it hasn't impacted any of the 3-4 year long drama going on, but it could impact future stuff. This sub has minimal discussion about AI programs as it's focused on coding bootcamps. I will continue to be transparent about biases.
2. Formation used to help people do portfolio building projects and stopped many years ago. The author called though out too. It's not completely irrelevant, but it's not at all what Codesmith was doing. When we accepted people right out of bootcamps back then, Codesmith grads came to Formation directly and saw it as a complementary continuation of their journey. For a couple of years now though we don't accept those people and work mostly with 5+ year engineers so naturally the need for portfolio projects is almost zero. The platform adapts to what people need and is living and breathing.
**Zooming out**, this is a very complicated multi-year back and forth, with tons of nuance to it so people jumping should recognize that.
If it were more clearcut and simple we wouldn't be having these debates for YEARS.
u/SnooDoodles9476 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
A very reasonable person would turn down the opportunity to be a moderator at a major subreddit covering the field their business has a significant stake in.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I don't agree with the conflict but support open, reasonable discussion about the issue.
u/-procrastinate- wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I attended codesmith back in 2023 and wrote a post on this subreddit giving my unbiased thought on Codesmith, who it’s for, and who it is not for. Michael had even commented on it on a positive light, thanking me for sharing my balanced opinion.
However, it seems that more recen
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
Do you have a link to the post? I don't know if I was a mod back then but I can look at it and reactivate it if doesn't violate any standards and your account is in good standing.
u/-procrastinate- wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Yepp! This post has been up for a while, so was confused why it suddenly got taken down.
https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/s/W4jzJ2wOjA
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I approved it but I think the problem could be that most of the comments are suspended accounts arguing with each other, which is super suspicious, but the post itself seems fine.
u/-procrastinate- wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Preciate it. Will update my original comment
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
My comments are too boring to write an article about. This is the type of commentary I had for 2.5 years until the market collapsed and Codesmith hired this Reddit guy that completely screwed up their Reddit presence and left me very personally upset.
The good old days were much better.
I wish that guy would tell a fair story from both sides.
u/michaelnovati wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
My comments are too boring to write an article about. This is the type of commentary I had for 2.5 years until the market collapsed and Codesmith hired this Reddit guy that completely screwed up their Reddit presence and left me very personally upset.
The good old days were much
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Makes me kind of sad though too reminding me of Top Measurement and the dozen of other now-suspended pro-Codesmith accounts that created these spiraling comment chains.
u/ReDucTor wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Will you provide moderation logs which show how that post was removed? Because with your approach and rhetoric its hard to believe you were not the one searching for things to remove that might have been positive towards Codesmith.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
The little popup log shows just todays approval at 5pm. We had a major problem with fake accounts - particularly pro Codesmith ones - that we're comments all over the place. You might also notice that those "top SEO posts" mentioned are not MY POSTS, but deleted accounts and also very odd posts.
These three posts show the aftermath of cleanup outside of this sub:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1iduu2d/im\_jehovany\_i\_graduated\_codesmith\_in\_2020\_and\_now/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1iduu2d/im_jehovany_i_graduated_codesmith_in_2020_and_now/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1ilpihd/im\_ayleen\_a\_software\_engineer\_and\_current/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1ilpihd/im_ayleen_a_software_engineer_and_current/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1i8yr3f/im\_principal\_associate\_software\_engineer\_at/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codesmith/comments/1i8yr3f/im_principal_associate_software_engineer_at/)
So I'm not sure exactly but there is a lot of cleanup and someone (including myself) could have made a mistake too in that process, the suspended accounts comments were NOT deleted. My own comments are in there too.
The problem was really bad and I considered a subreddit wide ban of Codesmith.
You can see some of the similar commenting on this post, it's clearly not spammers but it's like people trolling and harassing constantly. Like 15 comments in a day, not 0.8 like the person claims I made on average.
Another mod said to delete and ban stuff like this and I try to be tolerant and give people room to have REASONABLE discussion.
SO TLDR: I suspect an accident in some kind of cleanup from this mess. All the mods are humans and not perfect, and that doesn't mean we are bad intentioned. There is a massive mess here and that story wasn't told whatsoever.
u/Fightmebr0 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
The way codesmith grads represented their open source projects was designed to make people think they had real work experience. If you have seen many codesmith grads linkedin, you would know this. Its not just one or two it's was a clear pattern.
The attribution of 40% to Michea
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
My question is where did that money go then? It didn't go to Formation sure as hell. It didn't go to defunct Rithm. Didn't go to Launch School. Didn't go to Hack Reactor with it's single digit cohorts. Didn't go to EdX that shutdown its bootcamps. Didn't go to App Academy or BloomTech or Launch Academy that paused indefinitely. Epicodus maybe? Shut down. Code Up? Shut down.
Answer: it went no where because the industry collapsed.
This is the plain and simple answer that the author didn't look into and that it's absurd for Codesmith to claim and severely damages my reputation with what any reasonable person in the industry would know makes no sense.
Maybe it was taken out of context by the author. 40% decline of a smaller number maybe? Codesmith leaders have been celebrating the article so I assume it's correct.
u/ReDucTor wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
It feels like your doing some whataboutism, finding 3 posts on a subreddit for r/codesmith which have comments removed. Sure moderation decisions could be unusual there but thats specifically for Codesmith, its not like its moderation for something like r/codingbootcamp which is
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
By the way I applied my detective work to identify that entire network of accounts and produced a nice report and it's gone now. The same rigor I applied to Codesmith and there is a reason for that.
u/ReDucTor wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I understand, social media marketing destroys reddit which many people still see as organic, and if the accusations your saying are true then they are also at fault for their brand damage imho.
However I suspect that you crossed the line possibly in frustration from that appear
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Yeah their fake pro-Codesmith LinkedIn account was removed as well after escalating that too I have the full documentations.
And yes, it's a lose lose situation.
u/digitaldisgust wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Are you taking legal action or are you just gonna say its slander and do nothing? Why not make a response post with receipts?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
No, not right now, I've always been about the truth and getting to the bottom of things and I dig to understand not to destroy.
I'm a moderator here to push respectful public discourse, to push for accountability in an industry full of scams and lawsuits for fake marketing and that's my goal. I give credit where credit is due, and supported many people going to Codesmith over the years. But I hold people accountable, which is ironic for the position I've been blindsided with this week. Codesmith takes about this stuff too but I hear two polarizing stories and I've been digging to figure it out. Codesmith is uncomfortable with for a reason and I want to push them to do better, not to shutdown.
People don't seem interested in discussions like this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1f0rrjf/navigating\_the\_debate\_bootcamps\_criticism\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1f0rrjf/navigating_the_debate_bootcamps_criticism_and/) and this is my bread and butter Codesmith discussion over the years.
I'm human, and I've been upset since fall 2024 by some of the actions and transparent about my feelings in public. Those posts got cherry picked out of 'hundreds', but the above position is my stance.
In terms of the 'receipts': that spam network exposure alone (that Codesmith was tangled in but not a cause of), there are dozens to couple hundred items but the problem is that I can't anonymize this stuff. I need to sit down maybe on the weekend and go through it all and see if anything can be posted and if there's a point. Other are sources the Codesmith founder just shared publicly that anyone could see but they contain a ton of PII that I legally don't feel cool sharing. So I've been trying to walk a fine line.
For example, dozens of documents for this situation: one of the two people that created their subreddit was supposed to be an independent person not affiliated with Codesmith and her email address was 'codesmith\[redacted letter\]@gmail.com' in their Slack. The person doesn't seem to exist on the face of the earth. The Reddit spam network of accounts that was taken down had one account try to get me banned from Reddit claiming to be this person's 'boyfriend' and tying them together.
Is that at all remotely interesting. It's years of this kind of stuff.
u/digitaldisgust wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Lol, so you have zero balls to protect your reputation....noted.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I call it integrity but you can call it that.
u/digitaldisgust wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Lol, so you have zero balls to protect your reputation....noted.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
FWIW I talked to Codesmith's CEO earlier this year in a call and told her about it. She also agreed this stuff was crazy but since everyone left Codesmith she couldn't figure out who was responsible or why. So the defense is 'likely rogue former employee or contractor, sorry'. Then two weeks ago, fake LinkedIn account puffing up all their founder's comments against me. Account deleted and removed. No one takes responsibility. Not Codesmith, no idea.
If Codesmith doesn't know anything I need to find the truth.
u/thrynab wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Why Codesmith though, my man? There’s thousands of bootcamps out there that fit your description.
But you’re fixating on only one of them.
Your comments do nothing to refute the assumption that this is personal.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
When I interviewed Codesmith grads and they flat out lied about their projects being work. One said his manager was "Phil Troutman" who was the lead instructor at the time. I've never seen this before and when it happened a second time I got interested and Googled and found this https://www.reddit.com/r/TechLA/comments/b7xl98/codesmith_coding_bootcamp_scam_beware/
The polarization was notable.
So then I started digging.
I started looking up the GitHubs for the companies I was seeing on the people's resumes who were applying to get into Formation.
The GitHub projects all had these very odd spiky kit patterns where there are these spikes for 3 weeks and then absolute emptiness. I started clicking through the various projects and they all had these same very weird patterns.
Then I look up the outcomes and I see that people are making over $100,000 a year salaries.
I'm a person that digs. A guy screwed over some people during covid and then screwed up on an order revealing their address on a shipping label that was originally covered up by tape and I was able to identify their network of stores and have them removed from Amazon.
I've been paid security bounties for finding issues in services on airplane Wi-Fi and the only website I could access was the airline site so I made use of my time.
At Codesmith the more I dig, stranger things got. Videos of people power clapping, talking about snuggle the struggle.
Then engaging with some people, I started to hear how people felt sandboxed and could only communicate with their cohort and no one else.
instructor is saying things like if someone displayed negativity they needed to have a one-on-one to correct their attitude.
And it's really just snowballed from there day by day things that are interesting coming along piecing things together and it's just an interesting story.
I with monitoring BloomTech really closely at the time because they were publishing the resumes of all their grads and it was really easy to find out how many people were graduating and how many people were placing and compare that to what they were saying publicly.
But the truth is the story was just boring and Bloomtech was being sued all over the place because it was pretty one-dimensional. Others figured it out.
Codesmith was not one-dimensional. People were getting good jobs but how they got them was not lining up with the language that was being used. I wanted to figure out how these people were getting these jobs when the day-to-day was no different than other bootcamps. so I started watching YouTube videos, attending info sessions, and just talking to tons of people. you're really just hearing all sides of it openly and collecting information. I've been doing that and trying to summarize what I hear for years.
u/ReDucTor wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
> one of the two people that created their subreddit was supposed to be an independent person not affiliated with Codesmith and her email address was 'codesmith[redacted letter]@gmail.com' in their Slack
I use unique emails for every website going back 20yrs to track spam and li
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I've done several investigations into companies and rule number one is you have to document everything from day one because even if you make a statement that happens to be true. If you didn't have evidence of it and stated it as a fact then that's a problem. there's some wiggle room for good faith and you can misinterpret something or make a human error. More like how Reddit reset their chat in like January 2023 and all past chats were permanently erased so there could have been content in there that in good faith doesn't exist anymore.
One of the reasons that I've been so open is that I've also been protecting my ass since day one very carefully. The problem being that a lot of the documentation is private messages or documents that contain a ton of personal information that were shared publicly in public places and are fair game, but it's not fair game to dox people regardless.
I collected all this stuff to protect myself not to take down Codesmith.
I said somewhere else very clearly that my goal is not to destroy but to understand.
The irony is that Codesmith had a saying internally when an employee offered critical feedback: seek first to understand then be understood
They should apply that here. I've spent a long time trying to understand them, whereas they have been focusing on being understood only.
u/ryogishiki wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Still clear conflict of interests…
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I mean I think it's a gray area. I was very transparent that I believe that my relationship to bootcamps is that it's in my interest for people to go to my company in the future. so if I'm very helpful in choosing the right bootcamp and it was the right choice and the person goes there then they are more likely to come to my company in the future. so if the right boot camp for you is Codesmith and I direct you there you remember that and then you come back to my company in the future.
I personally don't think that's a conflict of interest, but it's a bias to disclose. That I guess there is some self-interest in being really helpful to people at the bootcamp stage.
But it's ridiculous to state that I'm running a direct competitor to bootcamps and trying to funnel people to it.
That article states that Codesmith lost $9 million because of Reddit or something to that effect approximately and it's ridiculous because that $9 million clearly didn't go to anyone else... my company didn't get it certainly, we hover around break even, and all those competitors that shut down didn't get it clearly. The answer is that it went nowhere because all of the people didn't go to bootcamps at all because of the market. Successful grads telling people not to go to a bootcamp right now.
I don't want to come across too defensive because I said in another comment that I'm a digger and I do investigations into companies and entities and Codesmith clearly feels like I've dug too far for their comfort.
But the competition angle is not one of the angles that I see and I think that it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what my company does.
Literally a month or two ago we started offering AI courses and those are a completely new product for us that compete with a new product that Codesmith offers and those products compete. That's something that I have to be very careful about in the future, but they aren't bootcamps and they aren't discussed in this subreddit because they're completely different things.
It's quite a complicated situation and that's why my initial reaction was that it was not fair to hear the other side. because there's a canvas to be painted and not a line and it's not even two lines. It's an entire painting.
The author of that piece was focused on a message about how Reddit will impact SEO and maybe llm stuff and it was not trying to tell the story.
u/thrynab wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Great reply! So you are confirming that you do have a fixation on Codesmiths. Am I reading that correctly?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I mean I don't know what to call my relationship with them. from my point of view in my head it's like a interest. I have a small number of things on my radar on the side. that's not related to my primary day-to-day in any way and I pay attention to those things and collect information and some things. I drop some things I add, merge whatever it's like. not a single word to describe this, I would call it an interest.
u/NDSU wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
> There is a lot of bad stuff happening on Reddit.
Yeah, and you're a huge offender of that
And for what? A bit more money? You don't have enough money already, so you need to abuse your position to earn just a bit more? I cannot understand your level of greed
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I'm not on Reddit to make money.
u/NDSU wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I'm sure. It's just a happy little accident that you, personally, financially benefit as the founder of a coding bootcamp
It is unquestionably a conflict of interest. Evidence of malfeasance aside, no founder of a coding bootcamp should be the primary moderator of a "neutral" th
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I'm not the founder of a coding bootcamp and I don't compete with coding bootcamps.
u/NDSU wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Funny how here you're trying to claim your wife, Sophie, is the sole founder, but on your company's blog posts [you're listed as an equal founder](https://formation.dev/blog/celebrating-five-years-of-formation/), *"founders Sophie Novati and Michael Novati share their journey"*
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Sophie founded Buildschool in 2017. it was a sole proprietorship.
I co-founded Fomation with her in 2019 which subsumed her IP in the sole proprietorship as a new entity.
Both are correct.
u/NDSU wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Funny how here you're trying to claim your wife, Sophie, is the sole founder, but on your company's blog posts [you're listed as an equal founder](https://formation.dev/blog/celebrating-five-years-of-formation/), *"founders Sophie Novati and Michael Novati share their journey"*
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
You should talk to your cousin because he'll confirm that I'm on the ground. extremely responsive. almost 24/7 to pretty much everything that's happening at formation that I'm I'm writing a s*** ton of code and that no one talks about codesmith or really cares about it whatsoever internally. and he'll probably be like absolutely shocked that there's you in this situation going on.
u/theglowcloudred wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Not exactly playing by the same rules when only one of you moderates the largest coding bootcamp subreddit.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I've removed my own posts before. If Codesmith triggers numerous Reddit AI they need to ask themselves why and fix the behavior. I can't tell entirely on my side but I gave them numerous suggestions over time. They keep falsely saying I'm deleting their posts.
Reddit AI removes and flags them -> I or another mod typically mass remove all flagged content. That's the standard in our community right now.
u/Dehast wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Hahah filters are configurable and you’re not forced to accept everything automod does, you can just go to the queue and approve, which is something any good mod does from time to time
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I explained this previously but we had a situation last year where accounts associated with the Reddit marketing network were manipulating discussions in the bootcamp space and I explained the moderation rules in the sticky. I was a mod queue 0 person and cleared out the queue daily but we defaulted to accepting the filtering unless there were very strong signals to warrant an override.
u/MathmoKiwi wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
You make fair points, however none of these points are unique to Codesmith! *Many* bootcamps do this. So why single out primarily just Codesmith?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Hi, I can’t comment on that directly because of pending legal matters. I’d just refer you to what I’ve already posted [https://www.reddit.com/user/michaelnovati/submitted/](https://www.reddit.com/user/michaelnovati/submitted/) about other programs and also marketing and expectations concerns for context.
u/stonkersson wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
you are your own cult
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I have no friends and no following. I don't send text messages to my people asking them to spread fake news. I'm one person with one account.
Don't believe everything you read.
u/stonkersson wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I asked chat GPT to list the pros and cons of Codesmith, and the cons ALL pointed to Novati's posts and comment-rants throughout the years. Seems to have established himself as the leading authority on why Codesmith is a dangerous, lying cult.
That's interesting.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I just asked it and there wasn't a single [Reddit.com](http://Reddit.com) source in the results and most of the cons came from their defunct competitor's blog post: [https://www.rithmschool.com/codesmith-vs-rithm-school-2/?utm\_source=chatgpt.com](https://www.rithmschool.com/codesmith-vs-rithm-school-2/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
I'm not saying you got something different but it is completely unproven and unfounded that I intentionally manipulated LLMs through Reddit as a moderator and it's defamation per se to spread that as a fact.
Learn about the space before trolling me.
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Former Codesmith employee that dislikes them now and I can confirm that Michael’s claims are just plain lies. About 95% of things.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
This person has no idea what he's talking about.
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Lied about the following:
Team make up
Amount of employees
Salaries of employees
Funding of business
Amount of money from future code
And many more. The body of evidence is company data you absolute clown. Generally you don’t post employee payslips online but of ummm laws?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I made clearly labelled, good faith estimates based on publicly available contracts and salary information. Those aren't lies if they are good faith and clearly labelled estimates based on public data. If you or someone else at Codesmith has a problem with them, no one told me.
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Salaries: I paid them
Future code: I made the budget and submitted records to NYC
But sure bro - you do you. This entire situation is an absolute clown show caused by absolute clowns on both sides.
I feel so sad of all the people that are caught in the crossfire, people that sp
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
I missed this before, but its good to know you had full access to all of Codesmith's financials because I'll note that in my documentation. We probably shouldn't talk any further.
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I’m not shocked. They were a lot more cleaned up when I left. Despite constant interference from you lying online
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
RE: "lying" I think (my opinion) Codesmith execs have some kind bubble around this, where they reinforce this idea to each other, like a Slack channel where they share things I post and pile on to me about it, but there really is another side and you can't see my DMs by definition to see it. I have 1-1 conversations, no coordinated groups, and many people (completely independently) thank me for 'telling the truth' because they didn't want to speak publicly about it at the time (although that could have changed since this blog post because I'm sure people are very fired up now at what they perceive as an 'injustice' against me, not sure since I can't discuss this with any of them anymore).
You'd be surprised how much I also defended or played devil's advocate to people who said some pretty negative examples about leader's behavior and I was always trying to explore why or look at from other angles rather than assume bad intent.
I really wish Codesmith would give me the benefit of the doubt.
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I’m not shocked. They were a lot more cleaned up when I left. Despite constant interference from you lying online
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
In my personal view, there appears to be a strong internal narrative within Codesmith leadership about my intentions and activity. I don’t have visibility into how those discussions occur, but from the outside it often feels like my posts are interpreted in the most negative possible light.
What isn’t visible publicly is that I’ve had many one-on-one conversations over the years with individuals who reached out privately. Those conversations were independent and not coordinated. Some people expressed appreciation for perspectives I shared, particularly when they felt uncomfortable speaking publicly at the time.
I’ve also frequently played devil’s advocate in private and public discussions. When people made strong criticisms of Codesmith leadership or staff, I often tried to explore alternative explanations or encourage nuance rather than assume bad intent.
I genuinely wish I were given the benefit of the doubt. My intent has always been to discuss publicly available information and industry trends as I see them, not to harm individuals.
Separately, certain business facts have been discussed publicly — including statements about prior investment activity and previously reported revenue figures. I don’t speculate about the reasons behind those business decisions, and I have no direct knowledge of them beyond what has been publicly disclosed.
My reputation has been significantly impacted by the narrative that has developed around this situation. That has been difficult. But my focus has consistently been on discussing industry transparency and publicly available information, not on personal attacks.
u/jh11211 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Yeah, first reaction of Michael Novati’s was to create another lie…that he knew was a lie. Sad, sad, pathetic man
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I’ve operated in good faith throughout this entire situation.
If I make a good-faith mistake, I correct them as fast as possible, often in minutes or hours, and I've continuously displayed an openness to correction. Personal attacks like this don’t address any substance. Calling someone a liar, especially while remaining anonymous, through a rotating list of accounts that seem to primarily engage only with me, is easy, but it doesn't go unnoticed or undocumented.
There are already formal legal proceedings and written responses addressing these issues in detail. I stand by my position, and I will continue to defend my reputation through appropriate channels.
If you want to discuss facts, I’m open to that. If not, I won’t participate in character attacks.
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
It’s not a narrative. It’s who you are and what you’re doing. I don’t mind you being who you are but take responsibility for the outcomes you cause. If you can’t do that you’re part of the problem.
Best of luck to you Mike. A sad interaction with a sad man once again.
For me t
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited★ FEATURED
For those following this discussion, I believe this exchange highlights the core disagreement.
You’ve stated publicly that you managed Codesmith’s finances and described the company during that period as a “clown show.” In the blog post, however, the only causes cited for Codesmith’s decline were Reddit activity and broader market conditions, with no reference to internal operational issues that we both were aware of at the time. That discrepancy is notable.
My Reddit activity has been undertaken in a personal capacity, reflecting my own views and opinions, as I have consistently stated for 4 years.
Given that, it is not possible to infer someone’s internal intent without direct evidence. Characterizing my conduct as a coordinated, bad-faith attack directed by executives or driven by improper motives is inaccurate and harmful to my reputation.
If there are specific factual statements I have made that you believe are incorrect, I am open to reviewing them and correcting any demonstrable errors. However, broad assertions about intent or coordinated misconduct are not supported by evidence.
u/jh11211 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
In that case, want to make any apologies for outlandish claims with zero evidence that have been disproven already? Or bring any legal evidence you’ve alluded too to light? Cause it seems to me you have no evidence and karma is catching up to you
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
What claims have I made that have been disproven?
u/jh11211 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Novati is trying to intimidate you. Lol, what a joke. Agreed that it is a clown show where Novati is at least 1/2 the problem
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited★ FEATURED
In my opinion, Codesmith’s leadership appears to have overestimated the impact of my Reddit comments and attributed broader market and business challenges to them.
Based on publicly visible engagement metrics, many of my comments receive relatively limited visibility, often dozens to low hundreds of views, and many are buried deep within long threads. By contrast, several negative posts about Codesmith written by individuals I do not know received tens of thousands of views. I had no involvement in those posts.
I cannot discuss all of the underlying information I have reviewed, but based on my assessment of publicly available data, industry trends, and the overall decline affecting many coding bootcamps, I believe the challenges facing Codesmith are primarily market-driven rather than caused by my commentary.
It is also my understanding that Reddit was discussed internally at Codesmith. If so, that may have amplified the perceived significance of online criticism within the organization and might have caused cycles of discussion about posts and content that seemed like a bigger deal internally.
If prospective students cited Reddit as influencing their decisions, the highest-visibility content appears to have been posts written by third parties, not my own comments specifically.
To summarize my position: I believe I unintentionally struck a nerve through criticism that I viewed as fair commentary on public information. In hindsight, it may have been beneficial for us to have had a direct conversation several years ago to clarify concerns and avoid escalation.
u/Free-Jackfruit8557 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Thoughts on this blog post alleging harassment (and worse) against Codesmith?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
As promised, I wanted to take the time to provide an equally comprehensive response. Here it is.
[https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith](https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith)
u/10israpid wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Honestly, it's quite curious why the moderator of this sub is so hyper-focused on weighing in on most conversations here. Even if Codesmith sucks and every single complaint is valid, I think it's better to let the conversation organically flow and for moderators to focus on rule-
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Debunked, finally now that I can: [https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith](https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith)
u/TheWhitingFish wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Clearly he’s not acting as only a moderator, we can all see his attentions by just looking at his history
u/TheWhitingFish wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
After 200+ days, you still won’t let go. Feel pity for you. Just move on man
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
When people call you a stalking p-word because of en entirely fabricate and fake narrative that I systematically debunked and proved that Lars told a made up timeline of events surrounding the claims I stalked 'leaders' kids' you sure as hell bet I'm going to defend myself.
I'm operating fairly and in public and when the other side is lying to your face and caught with contradicting text messages and evidence on several occasions, it's not right and people need to know what happened.
So they don't get fucked over by people like you and Lars in the future.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy
It would make me happy if you actually read the post.
If you are going to keep harassing me across Reddit based on Lars' post I would appreciate you read the dismantling of Lars' arguments as well and then share that alongside your harassment campaign so people can see both sides of an argument.
u/reddingdave wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
It's because Michael Novati runs a competing company.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
u/reddingdave you have been going after me very hard, so I would appreciate you read the debunking. Given how hard and relentlessly you went after across Reddit, its really disingenuous if you don't.
My post doesn't paint me as being right, but it presents the situation as a messy two sides multi-year argument, rather than a one-sided harassment campaign.
u/reddingdave wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Pretty bold of you to demand that I read a huge blog post responding 7 months too late to the original article. 7 months later means I'm way less interested in this topic than when the drama was unfolding. And I assume the reason it took you so long is because your lawyer told yo
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Well thanks for partially reading, it's appreciated.
I have not decided if I will pursue legal action against Lars. There are more than three parties here and it's complicated.
u/jh11211 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Yeah, first reaction of Michael Novati’s was to create another lie…that he knew was a lie. Sad, sad, pathetic man
u/L4ShinyBidoof wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
It's been over 6 years since I graduated from codesmith so I have not kept up with anything regarding coding bootcamps until I saw this article trending in my network.
I've occasionally seen some nasty rumors or stories about students caught lying on their resumes, but I didn't
u/sheriffderek wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I don't know anything about this stuff outside of this sub, but it sounds like there's *a lot* of of documented communication out there.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
The person you are talking to is an alt account of someone else who has forensically matching posts across two personas.
The piece has been debunked https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith
u/LeadingPokemon wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This shit looks bad. Where’s the counter-argument? Is this mod spending most of his time railing another company with vitriol or not? The light of Reddit main page brought this to me, and obviously it’s a *tiny* bit biased.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Here is my response https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith
u/No_Reality_1161 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Stop spreading misinformation. This wasn't a paid attack; also I verified that with Lars, personally.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
It was not a paid attack but it was gsrbage, sloppy and lazy work that has been debunked https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
u/Gullible_Mousse_4590 here is the debunking: https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith
Either you didn't know about all of this stuff and you want to correct all of your misinformation or you did already know everything in here and all your posts calling me a liar are defamatory.
u/LeadingPokemon wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Wild delay Batman but sure! Glad you were able to figure out how to respond!
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
There is a lot of stuff going on, but yes, Lars Lofgren's garbage work that appears to be spoon fed to him by Codesmith is all exposed yes.
Either he published the stuff they sent him without fact checking, or he's just a terrible "investigative journalist"
And either way, his credibility is gone in my opinion because neither excuse is valid.
u/basitmakine wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
yikes this is exactly why automated marketing on reddit can be so problematic when it crosses ethical lines
the conflict of interest here is pretty obvious - using mod powers to systematically attack competitors while promoting your own business is sketchy af. this goes way beyo
u/L4ShinyBidoof wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
In Michael's harassment email's to the employee's son he said to let the public decide who is right or wrong. This may be a textbook example of FAFO
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Your comment is textbook example of manipulation and scamming. Shame on you and I'll leave it that. Maybe for Part 2 of the expose.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy
Fake news, see: https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith
I said this above but I exposed 39 fake Reddit accounts and I'm ready to expose more. Stop manipulating and be transparent.
u/Elpickle123 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
'I don't actually own a competitor coding bootcamp called Formation, that's just my wife who owns that!! No conflict of interest here, guys, at all because I don't own it. Hardly even know the lady.'
u/dmanice89 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Is Codesmith doing well for real ? what are their latest placement rates after a year? if Michael is saving people thousands of dollars from being wasted on bootcamps that are not effective. Him being sleezy is like being mad at a dirty cop for catching a ponzi schemer using ille
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Codesmith doesn't have any non-Future Code activity that I see in the past few months... maybe a handful of students? Most of the people on their website aren't employed there anymore.
I didn't talk about Codesmith for months and things got WORSE.
People didn't realize how I recommended so many people go there.
Codesmith leaders really focused on the wrong thing here and I blame Will Sentance.
People have been shocked to see all the stuff he withheld during this time.
u/MustachMulester wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
God I hope Codesmith has lawyers in this thread. What are the odds Michael is arrogant enough to have bragged to his friends about the damage he’s doing to Codesmith over text or instant message?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
My text messages are completely consistent with my public communication. From what I've seen, Codesmith's was not. I exposed some of it here: [https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith](https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith)
u/TheWhitingFish wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I read from somewhere that your commits are not public, who knows what you are committing? I can commit once per minute if i want to get that 8000 count. Maybe you are committing to attacking codesmith
u/michaelnovatireplied·
This is a bullshit comment from a fake bullshit account.
u/carrick1363 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Go get a life and stop with your disingenuous accusations.
Fake account. Learn more about 39+ exposed banned fake accounts here: https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith
u/Redolpho wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I went to Codesmith and it helped me build the life of my dreams. Seriously. Not cult bs, that's crazy. Will is a good dude and smart af. He built a great program and I watched it launch people into tech. I was a waiting tables and the next year I was living in Peru making 120k.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Will is a gifted lecturer. He's terrible at running a business: [https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith](https://michaelnovati.substack.com/p/a-response-to-lars-lofgrens-codesmith)
I bet you didn't know he allegedly sold 70% of Codesmith to investors in 2015.
I recommended many people go to Codesmith and the story is false. Don't be scammed.