Anyone using AI to make millions of dollars is NOT TELLING ANYONE ABOUT IT. Because they have discovered a market inefficiency and they will milk it for everything they can get.
When people are talking about these things they are selling you something and you need to be careful.
What makes you interested in SAAS? it's one of the areas most disrupted by AI but if someone is trying to make you think you can vibe code a $1M SaaS business you need to stop and do something else.
When experienced engineers deliver 10X the value as bootcamp grads with no experience, going from 1X to 2X won't get you a job unfortunately right now.
Yeah that's also a good point and on my Codesmith comparison, they have been silent in 2025 and my estimates show worse numbers than 2024. So we'll see at the end of the year...
If Launch School's updated project and internships model is working then that would be great to see concrete changes result in better placements.
So bad we've heard a lot of hot air from bootcamps about their changes but haven't seen many changes improve placements.
I mean it's not bootcamp VS CS degree, the only other comparison is other bootcamps.
And yeah I work with a bunch of Codesmith grads too and it's crazy how they all come in with IDENTICAL RESUMES AND PITCHES and I work with them as individual humans and each one has their own trajectory.
It's one of the reasons I know so much about Codesmith, like some of these people are like shocked... like you have no idea how DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE each person is and their path is entirely unique. Some don't work out too. It's not magic, it's just applying extensive experience, judgement, and taste to give advice to people and it works out more often than not.
Codesmith treats all the people the same, there is one option, and every single of the dozens and dozens of resumes I've seen are almost the same.
Maybe this worked back when it was exploiting a market inefficiency, but it's embarrassing now.…
It's not when they told you the 2021 number of 80% in mid 2022 when you signed up for a 2023 cohort . Or they told you the 70% 2022 number at the end of 2023 when you signed up.
When they knew very well that the first half of 2023 grads were trending to be half that at that point but said they couldn't comment because they have to 'wait for the full picture' - i.e. April 2025.
It's a racket in my opinion. I heard of people asking for their money back and it wouldn't surprise me if that starts cascading soon.... things have gotten worse and worse in terms of placement numbers.
Codesmith very well knows that H1 2024 grads had a FULL YEAR OF JOB HUNTING ALREADY and could easily tell us the placement rate for those people but they haven't. They could tell us the FULL 2024 PRELIM SIX MONTH PLACEMENT RATE NOW.
But they keep quoting 70% 2023 12 month placement rate.
Students aren't idiots,…
Launch School H2 2024 grad outcomes. Placement rate within 6 months is lower than 2023 grads (50% versus 75%). Note that the denominator is all people who start, so will do comparisons in the body.
Resharing the original post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/launchschool/comments/1n8s8mr/cohort\_2408\_salary\_outcomes\_6month/](https://www.reddit.com/r/launchschool/comments/1n8s8mr/cohort_2408_salary_outcomes_6month/)
**As usual Launch School is very clear and transparent about their analysis so I really don't have to read between the lines, you should read their original post.**
**INDUSTRY COMMENTARY:**
In the bootcamps world, Launch School and Codesmith are the two remaining bootcamps with consistent six figure outcomes over a decade, so it's really the main comparison.
Codesmith hasn't given any numbers for a while so we'll extrapolate there's based on the patterns.
**Also note that C…
I think it's reasonable, like what it's used for is different from the tech itself. It sounds like they used all their CareerKarma data to train and build AI flows to communicate with students and tell them which bootcamp to go to. And they generalized it and are using that technology as a standalone company now.
And they sold the top of funnel pipeline to Climb Credit.
Good question. I don't know anything extra, but it appears they acquired App Academy's "brand" and not the company. The entire website is just a wrapper on Coding Temple and it's entirely managed by them now.
Now how is Coding Temple surviving?
1. PRICE POINT
It's notable that the most expensive bootcamps are the ones that closed, because people aren't paying $22,500 to go to a bootcamp right now. Those expensive bootcamps survive off a small number of people - dozens - joining and paying that and they spend a lot of time woo'ing those people to win them over.
TripleTen, CodingTemple, Springboard, NuCamp, are cheaper programs, people are less upset if it doesn't work, and people who were going to pay App Academy $20K are instead paying CodingTemplate $5K-$9K.
2. CHANGING PROGRAMS
The surviving programs pivot faster to the latest headlines. These places all offer "cyber security" pr…
BREAKING: Career Karma acquired by Climb Credit - vague details on what this will mean practically speaking
Original Press Release: [https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/climb-credit-acquires-career-karma-platform-to-expand-access-to-career-training-through-mission-aligned-enrollment-support-302546658.html](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/climb-credit-acquires-career-karma-platform-to-expand-access-to-career-training-through-mission-aligned-enrollment-support-302546658.html)
SUMMARY:
* Original founding team stepping down to focus on new startup OutRival
* Career Karma will be expanding to healthcare & trades.
* Climb appointed **Jeff Herbst** (ex-Noodle, 2U; founder of Protostar Studio) to lead Career Karma’s next chapter, focusing on student-centric enrollment growth.
* Sounds like Climb Credit will leverage Career Karma's user base to advertise for schools that Climb C…
A number of programs have shut down since this came out.
It would be terribly sad if someone saw this at the end of 2024 and made decisions based on it.
There's no free lunch and if an engineer is being paid like $500,000 a year at OpenAI, why would they do free mock interviews out of the good of their heart?
Some might because they want to help and mentor people one-off but there is no large scale "platform" that enables these to happen at large scale.
This is the closest thing I've seen: [https://adplist.org/](https://adplist.org/)
But the inherent problem is if people are doing something for free, it's not consistent. Even when you pay for interviews it's hard to keep a consistent experience!
They did take action against BloomTech/Lambda School but then the administration changed and one of the new administrations goals was to explicitly dismantle the CFPB. They dropped a lot of their pending action and I don't know what they are doing now.
It will likely have the dating app imbalance problem. This can only work if you have equal supply and demand at equal quality level.
If people want to teach people something they aren't really an expert at or aren't good at teaching and want to receive the end quality tutoring, it won't work.
At top tier tech this is incorrect. Bootcamp grads typically go through apprenticeships to ramp up into the job - which is a good thing. But they are very far behind because the CS grads in top tech have numerous internships and tend to have intense CS degrees with like dozens of courses under their belt.
It looks like you have corporate partnerships that you place people with, right? That's the IDEAL to me, because the companies know what they are getting and ramp people up with appropriate support and have committed to hiring the people and nurturing them.
Whether 100% of people keep their jobs or not, this is still the ideal to me and I wish everyone could do this.
The problems I'm talking about are when bootcamp grads are competing directly for general entry level jobs.
Sometimes yeah! It varies by all kinds of factors and I'm speaking to averages. Averages might show trends but very few people are actually average haha.
One of the challenges with bootcamp grads is keeping the job. It's a challenge with any entry level engineer, not just bootcamp grads. But bootcamp grads tend to rely more on luck and one offs and really struggle with layoffs because they have to get lucky twice.
I would recommend trying really hard to stay at the job for 2 years and get promoted once, then you'll be in excellent shape.
Hi, I can chat async in DM but I don't do calls and it's one of the reason I'm very responsive.
As general advice, you should never do a bootcamp if it's your only option and you don't have backup plans.
A more precise argument imo: knowledge has always been free or almost free. Textbooks on CS topics are cheap. YouTube videos are free.
There's always been TOO MUCH content and bootcamps and other courses try to put it into an organized curriculum.
LLMs can organize and content and adjust it for you for free and that is indeed crushing bootcamp and crappy online courses.
The result? Competition is higher and the bar is higher.
I want to make sure I'm not misleading here. It's a real company and not some scam that will take your money and disappear, like a gift card scam type thing.
I personally advise against going to any bootcamp right now because even if it was the best bootcamp in the world and flawless you likely won't get a job in this market.
It's legit in that it's a real company that offers a real service. Legit doesn't mean it's worth it, flawless, etc... I have a lot of unanswered questions still about Triple Ten, but it's not like a fake company or something.
That's not 86% of people who start. That's 86% of people who graduated and then responded to a survey about their placement that got jobs within 6 months of graduating.
Well the strategy isn't even working for $22K though. Tanking outcomes.
In 2021, about 90% of people placed within 6 months of graduating, in 2023 it's like 40%. In 2024 only Codesmith knows and they aren't telling us anything other than saying that 70% of their grads get jobs within a year.
40% in six months is not bad, but that's a massive collapse and this model doesn't work anymore.
Companies caught on and a 3 week project can be vibecoded in an hour now and companies don't care.
I get a lot of shit for my opinions but I'm transparent about who I am. The stuff that I have uncovered over the years of people manipulating this sub first made me angry, but then after deeper research I found out it's a Reddit wide problem.
I know Reddit is an anonymous place, but it's critical to understand who you are taking advice from. Take people's opinions with a grain of salt unless you can evaluate where it's coming from.
The scary thing is that this sub's membership has like 5X'd in the past two years so I think it's important that the discussions keep happening even if they are negative now.
RE: MODERATION Some of your posts/comments are being flagged by one of the filters but I'll keep an eye on them. If your posts are factually accurate then we won't take them down no. But they individually could get flagged by a number of filters.
If Le Wagon challenged your post and proved it was not accurate then we would look into it more, but there haven't been any flags or challenges yet.
RE: ANSWERS
Thanks, that sounds like you filed legitimately yeah.
And hearing stories that are not planted, former employees/graduates, current employees/graduates, etc...
There was a period where a bunch of people were posting in this environment. Some were saying 'you could be next' vibe or flat out lied about their background (I got my first job! - LinkedIn listed 10 years of experience as a 'web developer').
Then there was a period where people were like 'I got a job, but you shouldn't do a bootcamp'.
Then those people just don't bother because they feel like it's a waste of time.
This is me summarizing my opinions from talking to people and being here.
Have you tried using AI for those tasks (both urgent tasks and documentation tasks)?
And if you did, what didn't work about it?
(genuine questions, not sarcastic lol)
there isn't any universally recommended boot camp and there never was for me personally at least.
I used to recommend three rithm, codesmith and launch school.
Rithm closed. but it's the program I recommended most broadly because it was pretty well-rounded for most people.
Launch School still doing okay, A cohort cut back but generally they have the resources to keep making improvements. They have a different philosophy, their website talks about being this low way to career change and if you're the right person then it remains the best place for that fit.
Codesmith is like falling apart with like hardly any staff left complaints of disorganization. they just advertised for one of their projects on their LinkedIn page and the sign up is completely broken and I can't even try it out and when I point that out they delete my comment instead of actually fixing the problem. it's like fal…
I mean my goal as a moderator is to reflect the voices of the people who are members and prevent spam and fake accounts and promotional things from influencing it either way. a lot of the stuff I'm talking about that gets blocked is both blatant boot camp advertising and also alternatives and like online coding platforms that bad mouth boot camps and tell you to use coding platform or join their YouTube channel instead.
There is probably a 90% drop in signups to boot camps in the past 1 and 1/2 years or so, if I estimate based on the enrollment drops that I've seen at specific programs, then I think the sentiment is accurate.
I'm not really sure what data would make you feel otherwise.
like someone pointed out camps can work, but the majority of people posting here are doing any research yet at all. just trying to explore new career jobs because they don't like their career and if…
Everyone has bias but I don't think the channel is biased against bootcamps.
During the boot camp boom every other post was someone with a $100K job telling everyone who would listen to go to a bootcamp.
Now it's the same people telling everyone to not go to a bootcamp.
I personally told tons of people to go to Rithm, Codesmith and Launch School during the peak because the market was open to giving bootcamp grads a job.
I'm bias but I'm just following the data and facts and trying to advise accordingly.
1. The fees were only £2000?
2. Does the court sanity check the lawsuit or do you automatically win if they don't reply?
3. Can they appeal if they weren't notified of the suit or think the jurisdiction was wrong?
You should see the stuff that gets moderated out.
Placement data clearly shows tanking outcomes and many bootcamps have cutback or shutdown, and if you want to ignore that then go ahead, bootcamps are happy to take your money.
No one is going to stop you from giving $22K to a bootcamp that lost 90% of its staff and is barely operational, they are just going to warn you.
"Terrible" is the wrong word. I don't think the people running them seem themselves that way.
I think it's a "terrible" choice to do a bootcamp right now because bootcamps never really 'taught' anything substantial. They were a tool for very ambitious people to exploit a market inefficiency when is too much demand and not enough supply of junior engineers. And the market right now has been bad for juniors and will be bad for juniors at least through this year and maybe forever.
The compounding problem is that most bootcamps I've seen aren't discussing this transparently and they are making very poor arguments for why the bootcamp will help you.
In their demise they are focusing on marketing what they have instead of improving what they have.
If you don't expect a job and just want to learn instead, then alternatives:
\- masters degree
\- online individual courses from Stanford / M…