u/ewhim wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
If you were to rank people in class, was the person who got hired the best student?
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy ★ FEATURED
The way this has been framed to me:
1. the top couple of students usually get jobs quickly. they aren't on Reddit and they often aren't very engaged because they are in and out. others wonder why these people did Codesmith in the first place. when I've talked them I get a mix of responses: they were misled to believe Codesmith was more senior and they were way to advanced and we're advising the teachers, they needed some kind of structure and peers because doing it alone was emotionally challenging, and some people just wanted to do projects to refresh their skills and were misled that the codesmith projects were like work experience.
I hear people here saying that it wasn't really with it but that they enjoyed the community and didn't think it was a scam or entire waste of money, just probably wouldn't have done it in retrospect.
2. the 2nd tier of students get hired by Codesmith. These are people who are good but not so good they get hired right away, so they stay back and teach as mentors and instructors. All of the teachers there went to Codesmith themselves - not the TAs but the actual lead instructors. The people who don't stay get jobs and they use this work experience listed at a separate company called "CS Engineering" (because the CEO thought people wouldn't get credit for working at a bootcamp if they listed Codesmith) and people include their entire time at Codesmith as a student in this entry, so after 6 months of being a TA you look like you worked at CS Engineering for a year.
3. The people with adjacent professional experience in a different field. These people are the bread and butter Codesmith student. They follow the advice and they drink the koolaid and do everything Codesmith asks them, "trust the process", etc... this is the bulk of the people no longer getting jobs and "the process" isn't working. But even then they give Codesmith a chance, but Codsmith didn't improve the process so they are abandoning Codesmith. Some still get jobs eventually doing it their own way.
3. The bottom. These are people with no professional experience who fell in love with Codesmith from various free marketing events and then got fully adopted into the ecosystem. They saw Codesmith as the ticket to better life and trusted every word of marketing but had zero chance in the market.... the people getting jobs were #1 and the marketing made the story look different. For the most part this bucket has caught on and stopped stopped enrolling.
4. The extreme edge cases: these are the people you see in marketing posts, blogs, videos, that had some unique and completely non reproducible path. Like they were in #3 and got a good job, of they had a major life setback and feel Codesmith helped them turn their life around and stuff like that. Completely non reproducible.
So the reason why Codesmith is collapsing now is that they still have #1 and #2 and those people are generally getting jobs but then are like 20% of people.... and the remaining 80% is both not enrolling, and the ones enrolling are not getting jobs.
The people who are getting jobs question if they even needed Codesmith so they aren't loud and yelling how amazing Codesmith is to build public sentiment... they are saying "meh'.
How can a program survive when it doesn't work at all? Most people with the best outcomes right now don't credit Codesmith, there are fewer and fewer life-changing stories from recent grads (notice how all the blog posts and videos are people who did Codesmith 3 years ago or so), and the bulk of the people who trust the system aren't succeeding anymore and very few of them yell loudly that the system worked and you should trust it too.
Complete and utter collapse.