u/StephenScript wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I think it is clear that in a difficult market, many of the Bootcamps using CIRR are reluctant to continue having their data publicized as in a bear market, everyone is going to be red. I think if Codesmith continues to report to them despite the downturn, that’s a sign of streng
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
The problem I have with Codesmith alumni is that I'm not in fact attacking Codesmith or defaming them. I'm reporting on the facts, some are good and some are bad. But the WORST of all is the market for entry level jobs, which Codesmith has absolutely no control over, and that's the primarily reason people aren't going to bootcamps right now, not anything that Codesmith is doing poorly.
Formation isn't a competitor to Codesmith but I'm happy to tell you how we are doing. You can read it on our blog. Our 2023 offers tanked and people's average first year total comp increase dropped from $100K to $80K. Our top tier placements tanked from 75% of all placements to 50%. This is on our blog since December 2023. In 2024, which is not published anywhere, top tier placements are back up to 75% and average comp increase is $117K. We don't have any placements rates because it doesn't make sense the way Formation works. We've had hardly any withdrawals prior to placement in 2024.
On the downside, a good number of people in 2023 delayed or paused job hunting for the market to resume, so there are a growing number of people who have been training with us for more than a year. That costs us a lot of money and we're sticking to our promise to support them and we have enough money from VC funding to do so. One of these people received a record all time high offer, so I'm optimistically hoping that as these senior people resume their job hunt they will find good jobs and I'm will go to the end of the earth to help them.
I don't know anyone in the past year who has been choosing between Formation and Codesmith.
Serious question, not rhetorical: what incentive do I have if I were just bashing Codesmith? Think about it rationally, what incentive?
We have two people I know of that chose Formation over Codesmith 2 years ago. We have a few dozens Codesmith alumni who have come to Formation for their 2nd, 3rd, 4th job searches and some immediately post Codesmith as well.
So what incentive do I have to "defame" a good source of people to my business?
You sound like more of a Codesmith supporter, but a lot of people aren't and then send me a lot of interesting documents and screenshots, a lot of people feel like their leaders just defend themselves instead of listening and even some super close long time supporters have had enough.
I don't really want to be in this position, but I can't send people there knowing these things.
No business is perfect, Formation certainly is far from perfect too, we all want to become better and better every day.