u/RachelMartinezCIRR wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
>f a member school doesn't follow specific CIRR standards because they don't feel they apply to their school, why does CIRR allow their results to be posted without a disclaimer? (This is reference to Codesmith's treatment of their TAs, whereas other schools report TAs as "hired
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
Does that mean that the expectation is that if someone wasn't following CIRR standards, they will have to pass a consistent audit in order to be posted?
FOR REFERENCE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT:
I mean they published [this](https://www.codesmith.io/blog/codesmiths-commitment-to-cirr-transparent-reporting-frequently-asked-questions) and stated:
>Who is included in the “hired by school” statistic?
Codesmith deeply values team members who grow their careers from the ground up and have a first-hand understanding of the mission behind the work that we do. For this reason, we appreciate instructors who have completed the immersive program themselves and understand the student experience. When you see the percentage hired by school on a Codesmith CIRR report, these are a very small handful of graduates that have moved on to work full time as instructors or Software Engineers for the company. N**ote that fellows are not included in this portion of the report (this is a standard that Codesmith has set within our own reports, and is not a governing standard within CIRR as an organization).** This percentage can vary from 1.5 to up to 5% based on our academic team hiring needs.
How are fellows included in the report?
Codesmith fellows are graduates of the program that stay on to assist the team in core mentorship responsibilities for incoming students, similar to a TA in a traditional university. Fellows are considered to “graduate” the program once they finish their fellowship, typically after an additional 3 months (though some fellows do extend their contract and stay on longer, and a small handful grow to have long-term careers at Codesmith). Despite working on a 3-month contract after graduation, most fellows obtain roles shortly after finishing their contracted positions, and for that reason are included in the report with their original student cohort.
I think the CIRR standard is clear that since this is a paid contract role that it would be a placement, and should be in the hired by school bucket. And additionally that these people met all of the publicly stated graduation requirements prior to the fellow job and should be considered graduates on their real graduation date. If a student choose to take a $50K job as a fellow, that's their choice, just like they can choose to pursue a $120K job as a SWE.
The purpose of these terms was to prevent bootcamps from 'juicing their placement rates' by hiring back students. So any other school doing this would include those people in their stats and acknowledge that some of the placements were hired back by the school transparently. In Codesmith's excluding them 'juices their already strong numbers' in the other direction, by excluding the low salaries of fellows that bring down their averages. If fellows get another job still within six months of their original graduation date - as Codesmith says "most" do, they would use the higher paying job, just like CIRR allows them too.
I don't really care either way, but someone reading the report by the letter would not know about this because it's a very long blog post, and if the largest member of CIRR makes up their own rules, I don't think that sets a good example for other members.