u/JayawardenepuraKotte wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
How would you measure a bootcamp-to-mid/senior success? By time spent at that role? By the complexity of the tasks? One of the complaints you find here (which you also mentioned in a previous post) is that while these grads do find a mid or senior role, if somehow their skill
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
It's a good question and there isn't one answer. I've even heard Codesmith's CEO changing his tone a bit here, he said recently 'by mid level and senior we mean real Software Engineer jobs'.
Which is a fair point. ENTRY LEVEL FAANG jobs pay about $200K with $150K base right now, so even measuring by cash, Codesmith's "$127K median outcome" would not be below even entry level of the highest paying roles so I don't think they are trying to say their grads are "canonical FAANG mid level and senior" but rather that they are "legit" engineers. Many bootcamp grads get much lower paying, engineering jobs, and Codesmith's point is that the grads get full blown SWE jobs.
My problem isn't so much debate over the choice of language, but that they claim the OSP PROJECTS ARE A KEY TO PRODUCING MID LEVEL AND SENIOR ENGINEERS and that is where I draw the line in my personal opinion. Any kind of non-entry level engineer shouldn't be making the decisions and mistakes that are consistently evidence in those projects.
Generally people learn these things with EXPERIENCE rather than studying or cramming, so maybe the debate is about is EXPERIENCE required to be a mid level or senior engineer.
This one I'm more open to seeing both sides. On the one hand, if you do the job and don't get fired then you are qualified. On the other hand, I strongly feel like the goal should NOT be "don't get fired" and should be looking beyond the first job, and entry level engineers should be taking the best entry level jobs. Those jobs come with the mentorship and support needed to grow to mid-level "properly".
Perhaps the problem is that the data shows that not many Codesmith grads end up in FAANG entry level roles (but some do!) and they can't consistently prepare people for that bar and into those roles, so the next best thing is to go for higher paying "mid level" roles at worse companies instead of entry level roles at those worse companies.
The strategies for approaching both tiers of company are entirely different and Codesmith's approach works for those companies and not top tier and the approach I'm advocating works for the top tier ones and less well at the worse companies.