u/Historical-Most2671 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Hi Michael! You're famous in Codesmith so it's nice to interact, I respect your consistent view. As for the CIRR reports, I mostly just don't understand how in a 6 month period they are only counting \~60 graduates (before they combined program reports). There is a graduating cl
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Hi 👋!
What feels like years ago but was about a year ago I spent two hours on a Sunday cmd+clicking and collecting info on the LinkedIn vs GitHub OSP representation that really peaked my interest in Codesmith outcomes. I did similar math to you and was also confused in who was included in the "graduates included" number, versus the percentages underneath. More recently I looked at the formulas in the CIRR worksheets (because they weren't spelled out in the spec like they should be) and it added some clarity but I still have questions about how they extend how fellows are included (they admit to not following CIRR and delaying those people's clocks by the length of their contract) but I don't know if that impacts "number of graduates" or graduation rates, or what not. And would love the absolute numbers. But I was a kid who memorized cereal box nutritional labels and the exact details don't matter that much in reality, they are good overall. It's just incorrect to quote them as the golden source of truth that "proves' Codesmith is the best bootcamp.
The bootcamp industry would be better if:
1. Prospective students were more open minded about pros and cons. Rather than immediately judging based on anonymous people's words, being open to hearing the good and the bad and using critical thinking.
2. There were more critics. Vincent Woo did an extensive analysis of Lambda School that made headlines, and we haven't seen that kind of digging into other programs and bootcamps. We shouldn't be relying on CIRR - a business league run by bootcamps - as the "best thing we have" for looking at outcomes.
3. At first I thought NuCamp was making excuses by focusing on satisfaction over placements, but maybe it would be better if people focuses on talking about what they got for their money instead of judging by outcomes. The teachers spend all their days TEACHING and developing curriculum, so why does their work get judged only based on the salaries the students make. It's a factor, but there's a lot more!
P.S. I posted this on another thread, which I'm sure is lost, but I definitely am aware of that reputation "I don't appreciate their leadership calling me out in lecture and Q&A. I don't appreciate leaders texting students and telling them I'm a sketchy person. I don't appreciate a leader calling me a dark and disturbed individual whose sole mission is to take down Codesmith. I don't appreciate them defending lack of proper sourcing standards in their student's "Tech Talks" and I don't appreciate people assuming intentions and mocking me - both my work and my physical appearance."