u/InTheDarkDancing wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I understand the anti-deception argument. Maybe it's a flaw with my personality, and I hate to use this turn of phrase because of the connotation but unfortunately it's the best way to describe the commitment I think someone needs to be willing to make when looking to turn their
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
Thanks for civilly discussing too, like very much appreciate talking about this from different angles!
Yeah my response above was the two things I didn't feel middle of the road on, but I very much appreciate the hustle mentality as well. I don't sit with the "CS degree snobs" that a degree is strictly better than anything.
I also strongly agree with the argument about performance but that Codesmith grads are performing well at what Stanford/Harvard grads would call 2nd or 3rd tier companies. If Codesmith advertised itself as "Get the outcomes of 2nd tier CS school, paying the price of a 3rd tier school and in only 12 weeks!" I think that would still be appealing to MANY people.
Instead Codesmith advertises "Codesmith is a team dedicated to democratizing higher education for a new era - with graduate outcomes of an elite grad school but online and for 1/10th of the cost" [Link](https://codesmith.applytojob.com/apply/tKB7YQoSlz/Chief-Of-Staff-To-CEO)
Combining hustle + "skills". Two people with roughly equal skills, one CS degree, one Codesmith, 100% that hustle mentality combined with the same skills should help you and should level the playing field long term. If the Codesmith grad has much worse skills and more hustle and out hustles a 3rd tier school CS grad... let's zoom in more and talk, we're close. But even the most brilliant person with hustle, can't fill this gap to an "elite school" in 12 weeks, and the top companies don't fall for any tricks here.
The strategy should be to use that hustle to get a "foot in the door" first job (I consider $110K job out of Codesmith with no experience a "foot in the door job" WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ELITE GRAD SCHOOL COMPARISON). And then over a year work your butt off to catch up. Then do something like Formation (disclosure, co-founder) to revisit the fundamentals again. Then take a shot at the top tier companies.
I actually think one of the best jobs out of a bootcamp is an apprenticeship or internship at a top tier company. Even if you are paid less, your trajectory will be much steeper and faster. In your comparison though 100% Codesmith way, #1! I agree.
But that's not a comparison to an "ELITE GRAD SCHOOL". An elite grad school, like Stanford, has people with 8 FAANG offers paying them $300K a year and it's a laughable joke to make this comparison. Maybe I'm being too literally with Codesmith's words.