u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
I can give some thoughts on this, TLDR: CIRR results are real and Codesmith has very high outcomes on paper, but there are two sides to everything yes, nothing is perfect. I talk often to Don (disclosure, Formation.dev, company I co-founded, has sponsored one of this videos - as he doesn't accept bootcamp sponsorships, this is one of the only non-bootcamp sponsorships he's ever done but it could be a bias)
So first of all, I believe it was hard for him to find Codesmith alumni for a few reasons:
1. People don't list it on their LinkedIn's often because Codesmith suggests people exclude it from their history so their skills can shine, rather than any credentials.
2. To remain unbiased he won't include people who reach out to HIM first wanting to be on his podcast.
3. There are a lot of vocal Codesmith supporters that have worked either part time or full time at Codesmith in some capacity, and he doesn't include them either.
Now regarding the results. Their results during COVID (when I believe Zac attended) were not as strong for job placement timeframes (while the salaries were still good) [https://static.spacecrafted.com/b13328575ece40d8853472b9e0cf2047/r/c7000dff043446d4bd431b2dc6f30b97/1/Codesmith%20New%20York%20City%20Full-Stack%20Software%20Development%20Audited-AUP%20H2%202020.pdf](https://static.spacecrafted.com/b13328575ece40d8853472b9e0cf2047/r/c7000dff043446d4bd431b2dc6f30b97/1/Codesmith%20New%20York%20City%20Full-Stack%20Software%20Development%20Audited-AUP%20H2%202020.pdf)
Yes 80% of people got jobs within 6 months, but 91% graduated on time, so that's about 73% of people that started who got jobs within 6 months of graduating. When you add up several months of waiting for you cohort to start, 3 months of Codesmith, 6 months of studying graduation, it's a long time.... it's not like you do a 3 month program and everyone gets six figure jobs at the end.
Second, about 20% of people make in the < $110K bucket and 20% of people in the over $140K bucket. Codesmith attracts some people with experience and degrees that get mid-level roles post graduation on the high end that skew the numbers a bit, some already employed or employed in the past, that might not feel like they are "around" during the job hunting phase. I would be curious to see data by background. THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL, NOT REAL but for example if 20% of people are experienced and 100% of them get jobs in almost right away, then with those removed it means that 75% of the remaining people get jobs in in six months.... and if the graduation rate has similar math, the two combined can get close to the anecdotal comment.
Third, more of a CIRR comment, but it's just one way of doing things and one source of data. It's a very reliable and solid source, but it has biases like anything else, and you should always talk to a lot of people, definitely more than one person, when evaluating a program and see how people with similar backgrounds to yourself faired.