u/Significant_Wing_878 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I talked to 4 codesmith grads that currently do not have jobs (All between 1-3 months out of the program), none were asked to fill out the CIRR, but one of them asked about it and after emailing to inquire about the report. They were given the form to fill out. I didn't ask them
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I just took a peek at these sections of the CIRR standards and even if they can't "contact someone" (and they have to try FOUR TIMES to classify as non-responsive) then they can't be removed from the report, they just count as not contactable. So people who are not asked to fill out the surveys should still be included in the report.
The school has to submit a list of students on day 3 to the auditors to avoid students being removed from the lists later on.
So if this is is happening, my hunch is these people are just considered "not graduated". One of the weaknesses of CIRR is that the salaries are based on PEOPLE WHO ARE EMPLOYED. So the median of $125K is of the people who reported and are employed. The 20% of other people at $0 salaries who either didn't graduate OR didn't get a job, are not included in that stat.
So my hunch is there isn't something fraudulent going on and that the people fell into one of those buckets... maybe where they either did finish the program but Codesmith considers them "not graduated".
CIRR data is collected throughout and timestamped and they probably only collect a form when you get a job. And if it's a great job they probably immediately send you the form, and if it's not a good job, maybe they do "forget" so the person is accidentally classified as still job hunting - won't hurt the salary stats.
I dunno, all of these things are things I've heard anecdotally about other bootcamps as well but it doesn't sound like the leadership is crafting a scheme to defraud the CIRR process.
This is one of my criticisms of CIRR, it's a process that's not perfect and if people find grey areas they can exploit then fine, but the people should acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses.