Scammed by Springboard? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
What legal action have you heard of?
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Avoid Springboard Bootcamps - Insights from a Mentor · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I would try to get another sales job that's less stressful and more adjacent to "solutions engineering" and transition to that role over time. Perhaps the company will pay for you to do classes or things on the side or even have internal courses. Choosing a company that has a transition path historically perhaps.
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I don't hate bootcamps! Why the fudge is everyone so polarizing. I'm a centrist and i'm in the middle, that doesn't meant I'm neutral - it means my evaluations are BALANCED. When people shit on bootcamps or generalize from a bad experience, I'm equally centering.
This is the job of a moderator, the word "MODERATE" - as in I'm a moderate person.
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited
1. Yes I'm not strong in emotional intelligence. I'm one of the most productive engineers in the entire world and that has come with some major drawbacks. I don't have a lot of friends, but when I say I know what I'm talking about, I mean it, I know what I'm talking about, and people listen.
2. I have not attended a bootcamp. I have worked with hundreds of bootcamp grads from dozens of bootcamps. I've talked to numerous founders of bootcamps. My partner has mentored at bootcamps. I've interviewed bootcamp grads for jobs. I've studied a couple of bootcamps in absurd depth and know those ones inside and out.
3. My advice if you want to become a modern canonical software engineer? Well if you worked ar Applebees and you want to be a Medical Doctor and you asked your primary care physician how you can become a doctor, what do you expect? I'm sure some people do the pivot but not many. If y…
From behind the scenes at Codesmith: Leadership changes and what’s next · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I've been working with some people and I strongly urge you do go through the OFFICIAL Microsoft conflict process (you haven't confirmed you did that explicitly). I've spoken to people about this and you really need to do this if you haven't. DM me if you want more details.
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited
Read about this: [https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/dunning-kruger-effect](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/dunning-kruger-effect)
It's a free country, people can believe whatever they want.
I worked at Meta for 8+ years, 200 eng to 10,000 eng, was the #1 code committer, hired hundreds of people, did 400+ interviews, trained interviewers, flew around the country.
I have friends and acquaintances working at or leading every top tech company.
I would love nothing more than if more people became engineers!
You can try to do it blindly trusting anonymous people on Reddit, Blind and Discord, or you can listen to, absorb, and internalize, and people who know the industry inside and out.
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited
When you know how the sausage is made and you have a high moral compass you cant let people fuck over their lives right now. I can't sleep at night without tempering motivation posts.
I again state that nothing I saw invalidates individual stories, it's commentary on the market for most people.
Avoid Springboard Bootcamps - Insights from a Mentor · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
It's statistically less likely now than it was 2+ years ago. It's not impossible but I can elaborate on what that means yeah.
"The Market Disappeared":
1. Almost all hiring paused in 2023 layoff period, people with 2+ YOE hiring came back (a little for 2-5 and a lot for 5+), junior hiring never came back. Almost all junior hiring at big tech is via internships -> full time and the internships go to top tier CS students in 4 years degrees.
2. The DEI slowdowns resulted in programs closing and shrinking for pathways like apprenticeship and 'pathways programs' at many big companies and these were a solid avenue for bootcamp/self taught.
3. AI is empowering ALL employees to do more and companies are nervous about the future, so workload per employee is increasing as companies wait to see if AI will enable them to smooth out the workdload OR if they need to hire more people as well - and…
Scammed by a bootcamp, looking for options · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I mean if no one is actually getting refunds you can try asking a lawyer if you have a case, but it's going to be expensive and you should do that to hold them accountable and not to get your money back (my personal practical advise, not legal advice).
Like if in reality if literally no one got a refund yet it was marketed as one of their main features on their website and in calls, I think they are in trouble because that just seems morally wrong.
Avoid Springboard Bootcamps - Insights from a Mentor · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
Yeah nothing negative invalidates individual experience - good and bad.
But far too many people are looking for confirmation bias and latch onto an individual success story as justification to do a bootcamp they want to go to.
Bootcamps prey on this, because as you said, you referred someone because it worked for you, and this is a strong strategy. It's why every bootcamp asks for referrals for friends.
But you have to zoom out and look at the market right now:
1. Market disappeared for bootcamp grads
2. Failing bootcamps are cutting back and providing worse services (be in Springboard or even a top three like Codesmith and Rithm (shut down).
3. Almost everything about the programs are equal or worse ( when the students need BETTER support.
4. They don't have the cash to invest in making things better so anything marketed to you as a major change is smoke and mirrors - the "change" wa…
Avoid Springboard Bootcamps - Insights from a Mentor · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
I'm seeing similar cuts at Codesmith (in my opinion in judging their staff disappearing and cost cutting measures implemented) and am equally concerned of an implosion.
I'm not sure why these bootcamps don't just wrap up on good terms and call it a day and resort to cutting back so much to survive.
Like is it a game for their replacement execs to show that they can turn around a falling business to boost their resumes? App Academy didn't make it after trying the new CEO approach.
Bootcamps are expensive and impact people's lives... it's not a $100 Udemy course and it's not a $50 Kickstarter... like these are huge time commitments that mess up people's lives.
Anyways thanks for sharing some perspective.
Scammed by a bootcamp, looking for options · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I would ask them for more information about the job guarantee and how many people get it.
If the job guarantee was received by almost no one and you have evidence that it was marketed to you heavily as a foolproof safety net and can prove it then you can ask to negotiate a lower price to avoid legal dispute.
If everyone else got refunds and you didn't because you didn't do some fine print then you'll have a harder time complaining about it.
But that said, refund or no refund, if you are in the USA you have a right to share your opinions and can let everyone know your story fairly and honestly and if it's common enough people won't go there anymore and legal or not it will catch up with them if it's sketchy either way.
Next in the pivot journey: Vibe coding bootcamp? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
90% of tech startups fail, so I don't think marketing a founder opportunity for someone who is gambling with their future is good. If people do it casually as a forcing function to pursue some entrepreneurial dreams with a backup plan that's great.
I also think marketing to people with experience reduces some of the sketchiness, my worst nightmare is someone being like 'nurse or vibe coder' and choosing this because of the marketing and you are avoiding that.
Next in the pivot journey: Vibe coding bootcamp? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
That sounds pretty cool, thanks for sharing. As long as you don't market it as a get rich quick scheme then I'm cool :D
Next in the pivot journey: Vibe coding bootcamp? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy
oh wow it's $3000 not $300. My gosh...
Next in the pivot journey: Vibe coding bootcamp? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
NuCamp has never been known for being the best quality, it's affordable and their pitch is like do the same materials that you do for $20K for 1/10th the cost.
But because of the relatively lower price point, their community isn't as strong and committed.
I talked to a Codesmith grad this week that theorized that because it costs so much, people want to stick it through and lie on their resumes to get something out of it instead of complaining about it and admitting they wasted $22,500.
Whereas as $2000, NuCamp has way more people testing the waters.
Anyways, the premise of these Vibe Coding course is ridiculous.
Like if you are curious about vibe coding and don't expect anything out of it... nothing wrong with it.
But bootcamps need to stop making people feel like they will be successful over night.
Running a tech company is brutal and only naive and crazy people should do it. T…
My Springboard Job Guarantee Experience — What I Wish I’d Known · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
According to 2022 and 2023 California official reports they have a 10 to 15% on-time graduation rate so I can't imagine many people are getting it.
My Springboard Job Guarantee Experience — What I Wish I’d Known · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Watch the full thing. I argue with TripleTen students about job guarantees but it's super important to figure out how many people actually get their money back, because I haven't talked to anyone who has and I suspect it's much smaller than you think (if anyone knows, let me know). Everyone self justifies their choice becusse of the job guarantees and then I never hear from them again.
https://www.tiktok.com/@comedycentral/video/7018617892316908806?lang=en
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy
\#CancelCodesmith - I have to call out bull shit like that ad more loudly, in my opinion, it's a lot of bull shit that's scamming people and reeks of desperate flailing to survive in my opinion. Sadly the more I call this out, the louder and crazier their claims seem to get in my opinion. So I will keep making my opinions heard loud and clear.
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · ★ FEATURED
1. I'm a mod of this sub (and I was made a mod by people I don't know)
2. My company requires several years of work experience as a SWE, we don't accept new bootcamp grads or CS grads struggling to get jobs.
3. I make it clear when I'm commenting on behalf of the company (which is rare) and I make it clear when I'm commenting personally if there is some kind of confusion or questioning.
I take your feedback that it can be more clear because it's important to know who you are talking to.
I'm completely not-anonymous to help people judge who I am - this sub has a track record of people using anonymous new accounts to promote bootcamps with attempts to produce "organic content" that is super sketchy. Better to be able to judge than rely on new accounts you have no idea who they are.
My entire life mission is about supporting people bettering themselves. I'm trying to HELP people. A f…
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
This \^\^ I saw this post in my LinkedIn feed today. Conveniently leaving out this person took like 3-4 years AFTER THE BOOTCAMP to get this job.
https://preview.redd.it/3v53f6rgnhbf1.png?width=1112&format=png&auto=webp&s=dd5458e091ccecd6d63b3a5d1e5a884a37f1f868
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
It's not just about getting the job, but keeping it, and doing well on it and progressing in a 20 to 40 year career.
Some people shouldn't be changing careers - but they did anyways in 2020-2021 and made six figures and then 3 years later are taking career breaks/doing masters/changing fields again.
This field is exceptionally friendly to people without credentials but it's exceptionally ruthless as well because someone like you who has 1000x grit is sitting there waiting for their shot and if you don't have many many years of grit in you AFTER you get the job, it might not work out.
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
The stat you want is in 2025 what percentage of new websites are written in PHP and what is the trend. 80% of WordPress sites are not maintained.
Be smart about this because your career just started and you have a long way to go and every year is a new learning opportunity.
If you don't keep adapting you'll find yourself without a job soon enough unless you are a top 5% PHP programmer.
Hope for bootcamp grads · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I love when people share their personal stories as their stories.
Some people work equally hard and just don't make it, or it takes even longer, and this post shouldn't give anyone hope that they can do it too.
It's dangerous because most people won't make it right now no matter how hard they work.
On the other hand, there are a lot of people who would make it if they just kept trying and they might give up too early.
Everyone is different and 'work hard for years' doesn't apply to everyone.
another new comer post asking for advice · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Please read the FAQ first
Bootcamp/course/program recommendations for "intermediate" developer · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Does your company support you doing a masters degree? Or transitioning to SWE internally?
Given you have a good stable job slowly moving withon the company seems ideal.
🚀 My DevTown Bootcamp Experience – From Learning to Building! · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I'm allowing this post to show how much crap people try to post in this sub that is promotional on a daily basis that gets caught in Reddit's filters and why we have to be so vigilant about new accounts.
This post is special because the person didn't replace the fill in the blanks from whatever template they were provided or AI that generated it.
A message to those who do this stuff: you might have good intentions, but if your accounts are new and all you do is post about your bootcamp on those accounts, you look the same as this Dev Town person and it's why your content gets blocked too by the same filters. Same treatment for everyone.
AMA - Former Video and Broadcast professional switched to coding through a Bootcamp · r/learnjavascript
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I'm trying to be fair and I'm sure there is one person the program is for. I'm focusing my critique on the sketchy marketing tactics all these recent grads - turned employees/alumni are doing.
I was just talking to a grad tonight as I often do and had the same old consistent message.
Some day when they these people get a job in the industry, they will see the truth and my door is always open... you all can join the long list of people who changed their mind when they saw how things really area.
Uhhhhh.... BloomTech launched "Gauntlet AI" - free 12 week bootcamp, paid to live in Austin, TX, 100 hours a week, guaranteed $200K job if you finish??? Popcorn ready. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
My personal opinion - it works because you have to have a 90th percentile (or something) or higher IQ AND you have to work 100 hours a week to show you have grit. Really they are finding those people.
If it wasn't the entry bar then why wouldn't companies pay Gauntlet far less to up skill their current engineers and instead are buying new ones.
Finished about 60% of my bootcamp without paying the tuition. Should I continue or leave? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
2. I mean ask more questions but my understanding is they have like a <COMPANY> engineer explain some problem the company has and you build an independent solution to it and then <COMPANY> engineer reviews the project and gives feedback. I think it's better than a normal project! I might be wrong but I don't think you get access to their code or anything - ask them.
3. I'm not sure and I'm not a lawyer, just pointing out that they might come back in the future even if you feel like you got off and not to assume that.
Finished about 60% of my bootcamp without paying the tuition. Should I continue or leave? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Ok a lot to unpack here.
1. "program was stopped". Did Triple Ten stop it or did you stop it? Did they stop it because you haven't signed the contract?
2. The externship is like a couple week project that gets reviewed by an employee at a company. It's a good idea but I it doesn't replace internship work so don't get your hopes up.
3. Now legally, it doesn't matter 100% if you signed or not. If you partook in the services and paid the deposit, it might be construed as an implicit bargain you were entering. Now it's also sketchy on their side and shouldn't happen so if you are leaving I would try to negotiate some exit fee that's reasonable based on what you did.
If they will let you leave right now and not pay anything else I would do that, that's a crazy good deal for you because the externship isn't going to help much for another $8.8K
20 Years in Sales, Pivoting to Coding - AMA · r/cscareers
u/michaelnovati replied ·
He works at Codesmith according to their website.
20 Years in Sales, Pivoting to Coding - AMA · r/cscareers
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy ★ FEATURED
Shame on you OP - according to Codesmith's website, you work there on staff and didn't disclose that anywhere in your post or comments.
This is an ad for Codesmith and it's really not cool to manipulate people like this. Everyone reading this, please don't fall for this kind of fake-organic advertising.
AMA - Former Video and Broadcast professional switched to coding through a Bootcamp · r/learnjavascript
u/michaelnovati replied ·
This commenter works at Codesmith on their marketing team as a content creator and didn't disclose any biases.
Thread full of placed comments, don't fall for this scam people! Go to their bootcamp for the right reasons but don't be fooled by this fake Reddit activity.
20 Years in Sales, Pivoting to Coding - AMA · r/cscareers
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Your LinkedIn says you have 3 years of experience as a SWE so can you explain what you mean by "early in your journey"?
Uhhhhh.... BloomTech launched "Gauntlet AI" - free 12 week bootcamp, paid to live in Austin, TX, 100 hours a week, guaranteed $200K job if you finish??? Popcorn ready. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I think 75% of that is showing the power of AI, the other 25% is Gauntlet's deserved credit for sourcing high IQ people and training them
They are charging like $50K per hire though and I don't think that will last - it's because supply and demand problem. As others come onto the scene and fulfill the demand I don't know where Gauntlet will end up, but they have a first mover advantage.
Like my company has tons of FAANG level expertise in the engineering space and we're going to charge like $1500 to start with to help a current engineer use AI more productively at work.
So hiring 1 new engineer for $50K or sending 30 current engineers to this program so they can all be that productive.
If Guantlet grads really are that much better than your current engineers is it the high IQ test they have to get in? or is it the training itself? or both? - probably both - again just the cost is an…
AMA - Former Video and Broadcast professional switched to coding through a Bootcamp · r/learnjavascript
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited
Scam comment from a salesperson that's teeing up the OP to recommend free materials from their mutual bootcamp. This person also went to the same bootcamp and did their own AMA yesterday.
Everyone reading this: don't fall for this bullshit and shut it down.
AMA - Former Video and Broadcast professional switched to coding through a Bootcamp · r/learnjavascript
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy
# ⚠️ SCAMMER ALERT
This thread is full of Codesmith planted questions that are not disclosed.
Including someone who did their own Codesmith AMA yesterday.
Stay safe everyone and don't give your money to these kinds of scams.
20 Years in Sales, Pivoting to Coding - AMA · r/cscareers
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy ★ FEATURED
# ⚠️ SCAMMER ALERT
This thread is full of Codesmith planted questions that are not disclosed.
**Your LinkedIn is full of lies - you apparently already have 3 years of "software engineering experience".** So you are lying there or you are lying here.
Sounds like you are just like the majority of Codesmith grads who lie cheat and steal your way to a SWE job.
Check out all the recent alumni who get jobs, open each of their LinkedIns and see how many months or years of experience are listed for their 3-4 week long project.
Outco, a software engineer interview preparatory bootcamp, is no longer available in the state of California. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
EDIT: I just deleted it. The rest seemed ok but I don't have time to check the 100+ sources it found right now so I might come back to it.
I used deep research and deep research for that comment for Coachable (previously called CodeBreakers) sourced some reddit threads but I feel like "serious allegations of unethical practices" is a bit extreme, the content was:
1. discussing outcomes not being explained (which I was involved with personally)
2. discussing resume practices (https://www.reddit.com/r/csMajors/comments/118d9ku/is\_coachable\_legit\_apparently\_they\_help\_you\_find/)
I heard anecdotally as well that Coachable (CodeBreakers) was focused on new grade for a while and they would get jobs during a tough time by exaggerating their resumes.
Outco, a software engineer interview preparatory bootcamp, is no longer available in the state of California. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy ★ FEATURED
I used deep research and deep research sources some reddit threads but I feel like "serious allegations of unethical practices" is a bit extreme, the content was:
1. discussing outcomes
2. discussing resume practices and applying for jobs for people
I'll update the screenshot - I honestly only looked at the IK column and didn't read the others, including Formation hahaha, I'll give it a look and update in a few mins
Outco, a software engineer interview preparatory bootcamp, is no longer available in the state of California. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · DELETED · archived copy
https://preview.redd.it/a4ys4kno5iaf1.png?width=1634&format=png&auto=webp&s=2feab300108bf338c376d30880946b4bc758b78e
I made this chart!
Outco, a software engineer interview preparatory bootcamp, is no longer available in the state of California. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied · · edited ★ FEATURED
This has been up for a while but I feel like Outco is dead anyways. Like I think the founders moved on to something else. A number of people have been sued by them (and threatened to be sued) for not paying them after they thought they were eligible for the job guarantee refund and the collectors they talked to didn't seem that organized.
Pathrise also shut down.
I have a business principle that you ruthlessly have to focus on delivering value to people for what they are paying you or you shouldn't exist.
More bootcamps, interview prep programs, immersive, mentorship communities should follow this advice because far too many offer like a $50 Udemy course, add on recent alumni as mentors/teachers, add on intangible benefits like 'community' and charge $20,000.
You might get by if people get really good jobs and credit the intangibles.
But if you aren't trying to deliver value and are…
Triple ten refund policy. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I mean part of it is a lesson learned for signing up without digging enough into what you were getting into so it's not a complete waste if you internalize and learn from it.
But you definitely should NOT be putting all the blame on yourself because the admission's person might have selling you hard (which is their job) without treating you like a human and trying to dig into your situation to advise if/how Triple Ten would help you.
At the end of the day they are accountable for how they sell and there can probably be some improvements there.
Triple ten refund policy. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Sorry I should have given you the context. Again I'm being CENTRIST here, which means poking this from both sides, I'm not making conclusions.
I tagged you to see stories from the other side.
The bootcamp industry has had complaints over the past 10 years of people who are mislead into job guarantees and then the people blame themselves at the end of it.
Which is fair - part of the problem is people not understanding what they are signing up for!
But there is another side to the story, which is people who are not in the best place signing up for something and then blaming themselves for it not working out.
I'm not faulting Triple Ten here either, but I think Triple Ten's product might be more successful if it balanced both sides and took that into account. They market VERY HARD on the job guarantee and if very few people get it (even for their own fault) then it can look like they a…
Triple ten refund policy. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I've heard this from others on Reddit - that the first few sprints are easy -> you to share your referral codes -> you pass the 3 months refundable period -> then it gets really hard and progress slows.
But I'm missing what people do when progress slows - do people drop out? stick with it? go super slow and just hang around forever? etc...
Triple ten refund policy. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
Do you think this is the common case or you are an edge case?
I'm trying to understand how many people actually finish because I see far more people in their first sprint or two commenting with referral codes saying how much they love it and far fewer people that actually finish the program.
I'm very concerned if all these people are signing up for a 'job guarantee' but very few people actually finish the program and are even eligible to be refunded - which isn't proven or disproven and I just want to understand reality.
Triple ten refund policy. · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
cc u/Medium_Patience_9599 and u/Super_Skill_2153
Is AI/ML bootcamp worth it in 2025? · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I'm working in this space right now and my team is trying to figure out the answer to your question too haha.
AI/ML isn't one concept to go to a boot camp for or not.
We're seeing people just a little lost using AI tools that do indeed want to go to a gen AI tools program or course of some kind.
We're seeing people who are busy on the job at companies not quite at the AI forefront who just want a little supplement.
However, what you are talking about isn't that. You are talking about masters or PhD level ML. Look into doing a part time ML masters at a top 5 CS school.
Second, FAANG is hiring all the best people for millions of dollars so if you are working literally at Meta or Google, look inside for your training..Go to workshops from these people, and do internal courses.
For example when mobile became a thing Meta trained people in iOS and that was better than anything on the ou…
FE Developer with 4 YOE considering a bootcamp · r/codingbootcamp
u/michaelnovati replied ·
I mean there are definitely going to be more and more lifelong learning opportunities with AI, not just for Engineers but every job and it's going to be normal to continuously upskill.
Boot camps though are putting you through a $20 udemy course with accountability and community and all these other things that you're paying like $10,000 for. and the problem right now is that those things are not worth the $9,880 because it's virtually impossible for a junior engineer to get a job right now with zero experience.
So like if a boot camp is pivoting to try to Target more experienced people that might be okay too. but what I'm seeing from the top boot camps is really just the same old, same old boot camp curriculum that's a $20 Udemy course... or just free chatGPT generated
And that is the dilemma because those boot camps don't have the experience to work with people who are more experie…