Codesmith is a solid choice in NYC, but isn't cheap, but probably worth it. I heard they are going back in person in NYC ~~soon~~ (edit: by "soon" I meant I heard they were forming plans, but with no specific date)
EDIT #2: App Academy is back in person in NYC now, would also consider
EDIT: sorry, first time for some reason I thought you wanted in person and there aren't many choices right now. Some more questions u/helpmegetrichpls, how much time do do you have? will you be full-time or part-time? What is your starting point? Are you coding already and trying to improve, or are you learning how to code?
u/moreofthat_ wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
> I heard they are going back in person in NYC soon.
Can you share the source? Just wondering haha. thanks
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Sorry I should have clarified "soon". I think it was a Codesmith employee in a talk that said something like 'they had plans to go back in person', but I didn't feel like it was in the next 6 months or so, maybe early next year.
I have a lot of Youtube and podcasts and stuff running in the background and I don't remember exactly where. Maybe ask them directly!. I'll edit that comment for clarity to not mislead anyone.
u/International-Bed413 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Thoughts on App Academy NYC in person? I originally was focused on coding to codesmith but I wanted to go in person
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Oh are they back in person already!? Yeah I would consider App Academy too. Once you have the short list of top bootcamps, it comes down to personal fit. Not unlike finding the right SWE job haha.
u/International-Bed413 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Yeah I think both learning styles are good fits for myself. From what I’ve read about codesmith, graduates with the best experience go hard into an open source project while app Academy has more of a traditional approach of multiple smaller projects, which do you think is more at
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
So I think the actual quality of the work is probably similar. But Codesmith resumes APPEAR much farther along. I've been told 1000 times that Codesmith doesn't tell you to do this, but the vast majority of people I've surveyed (out of 200 graduates) list that open source contribution as "Software Engineer" experience at a real "Company". This gives them a huge leg up with smaller companies that don't check these things well and care more about what you do than what your resume says.
I've audited their flagship projects and almost no one uses them. No one reports bugs. No one reports feature requests. No one outside Codesmith contributes to them. They are group projects that are marketed as big open source tools.
Sorry if this sounds negative, not meant to be. It's a brilliant strategy and it's working to help their alumni get the most out of their experience.
u/International-Bed413 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
1. Thank you for being such an awesome resource to this sub Reddit
2. Do you believe that getting a fellowship from your bootcamp helps you standout as a candidate
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
1. Thanks. Yeah just want to help give my perspective on things. It's just one perspective, but so many people in the sub are in bootcamps or choosing bootcamps and it's missing the experienced perspective so I try to comment often.
2. It depends on your goals. You can get an entry level job directly from a bootcamp that is decent. Doing any kind of internship or volunteer work will help. If I were doing a bootcamp I would try to get an apprenticeship at a top tier company. Even the apprenticeships are super competitive right now, but I would try to be a top student and get one of those (e.g. Asana, Dropbox, Twitter).
1. Formation is called a Fellowship, but it's really like having a personal trainer for your technical and career skills and it's not an internship or apprenticeship. Doing something like Formation takes time. Like I said, MOST people at Formation have work experience already and know what they want next. It's less common to come directly from a bootcamp, but if your goals are a top tier company it's an option to make that happen. Many people I talk to looking at bootcamps do not want a top tier job as their first job and it's not a good fit.
u/International-Bed413 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
That’s very interesting, currently looking at all these apprenticeships. But it seems like I recently missed the application due dates for most. Do you think it would be worth waiting to enter a bootcamp to be able to apply soon after graduation. Seems like all applications are c
u/michaelnovatireplied·
You can also try for internships, but various apprenticeships open up throughout the year at a lot of companies. Twilio, Shopify (6 month internship), LinkedIn Reach, Microsoft Leap (I think this is open).
You probably to finish a bootcamp or have impressive projects self-taught to get these. People who get them are often close to the full entry level bar, they just lack experience.
u/International-Bed413 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Thank you for the advice. Definitely need to research all possible apprenticeships etc. The Twitter one specifically says bootcamp grads. Gives me hope lol
As for the technical interview for these apprenticeships. Are they just leetcode type questions? Honestly I’ve just been st
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
So they get FLOODED with applications. Which is why that Google recruiter was brave to post the other day haha.
Most of them send out some essay style questions in the application and more importantly a hackerrank or codesignal test. The tests I've seen (second hand through Fellows) are classic DS&A/leetcode and medium-hardish. The problem is because there are so many applications, you basically have to be perfect or very close to perfect to not get filtered out. I've heard of some people cheating (and they detect that too) and trying to really "pass the test" mentality... which is actually the opposite of what these apprenticeships want.... there are just so many applications it's the best they can do to filter.
You can try a sample test we offer at Formation: [https://formation.dev/join/assessment](https://formation.dev/join/assessment)
You'll get your score after completing. Since you've been doing DS&A for 2 months you should try it and see how you're doing.
u/International-Bed413 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
[results](https://imgur.com/a/yh8P9aq)
I scored 780/1620 is that horrible😂😂
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
That’s not bad. It’s not linear, so even though 1400+ means you are pretty close to ready for the stop tier interview raw skill bar (obviously you need to practice) 700ish is borderline ready for Formation to get there, obviously the low end but depending on your goals it could be sufficient. So you should look into it and see if it could be a good fit for you. The goal would be an entry level job top tier job or apprenticeship and you’re probably looking at 6 to 8 months. It’s very different from a bootcamp but you can weight your options between self teaching more, bootcamp, and Formation.
u/International-Bed413 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I actually originally applied to formation about 2 months ago with 0 DS experience.
(I saw it on Reddit and said yolo lol)
Chris told me that while I wasn’t ready for formation (I definitely was not) to study up on DS for about 2 months and reapply. And that’s how I started Al
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Yeah you are borderline and I agree you could use either higher starting DS&A skills or more extensive project work to have a higher chance of success with our training. Note: for anyone else who might read this, if you are not at our current overall bar, our training is less effective so we want to make sure you are there before joining, or that we have adapted our training enough to support you (we have people who really want to do Formation, but it's too early in their journey and I don't want them to read your specific case and generalize). When we work with someone it's until the very end, so we have to accept the right people.
So two approaches for you specifically:
1. Keep practicing DS&A. Great growth so far so keep going down that path to get through a good number of LC easy problems.
2. I think a standalone project that's not a personal website is great. Ideally something where people can do something (not necessarily sign up, but interact). For example, very early on I built a "Walt Disney World Itinerary Generator" that computed a list of rides to go to on specific days, depending on the number of people and the types of rides they like. No one used it but it was live and they could use it.
I think another month of doing 1 OR 2 could help you could be ready.
BUT AGAIN! GOALS! If you want a foot in the door job, starting a bootcamp ASAP might be a good option. If you want a top tier job no matter how long it takes, then Formation could be a good option.