Codesmith Grads - Stop lying on your background checks. Your OSP is not 'employment history'. I've received a number of couple of people having trouble with background checks because they put their project as 'work experience'. STOP.
Codesmith Grads - Stop lying on your background checks. Your OSP is not 'employment history'. I've received a number of couple of people having trouble with background checks because they put their project as 'work experience'. STOP.
I've received a couple of reports over the past few months of Codesmith grads having trouble with background checks, failing background checks / having flags raised, etc... because their "Open Source Project" is listed as months to years of "employment history" and they need Codesmith to sign off on it, and it's too late after you started the background check. These reports were shared with me indirectly from concerned students/alumni.
A Codesmith leader told me point blank to my face that Codesmith does not sign off on background checks for OSPs as paid employment, and if you list it as volunteer work, they will verify the 3 week project for the timeframe you went to Codesmith (e.g. 3-4 months) - which I find sketchy but they have a rationale for this at least.
So don't make the mistake of putting it down as 2 years of "employment history". You might lose the job offer.
If anyone had or knows someone who had Codesmith staff signing off on background checks for OSP projects as paid work, please send me evidence.
If anyone was advised or knows someone advised by Codesmith on how to frame their OSP as work experience to pass a background check, or was advised that they will no respond to the background check request so that it's flagged as "unverified" instead of "red flag", please send me evidence.
u/fake-bird-123 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I just toss their resumes lol.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Many real tech companies do too and it's why you see so many grads going to these non-tech smaller companies that they squeeze through with this bullshit or level them as mid-level based of the fake resume and don't know any better.
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Not sure where you’re getting information from but Codesmith has never signed off OSP as paid experience and has never told us to put it down as paid work experience. If students are lying then that’s their own fault. Lying on resumes has always been an issue in the job market th
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I believe I agreed with that in my post.
My the 'things' people told me about involve Codesmith cooperating in some fashion and they are clearly aware of it.
I totally get that if a student is like "help, I put OSP as work experience and they want to verify the background check, what do I do!?!?!" that if Codesmith staff tell the person "too bad, you're toast!" that would be bad. But from my understanding, this has happened enough times that Codesmith is aware of it.
I surfaced this to a leader in a 1-1 call and the leader said they would look into it because this person was shocked and puzzled that it was happening.
Well it's still happening!
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
"Cooperating" as in knowingly signing it off as paid?
From my experience being listed as a reference, background check calls are super quick and usually only verify employment title and employment dates. They don't specifically ask if the position is paid or not during the call
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I'm saying that people at Codesmith are aware of people lying and support them in various ways (I'm being vague) to help the person.
There are a LOT of people at Codesmith who are not W2 full time employees. So let's say a friendly prep instructor or a Fellow or Mentor does it. "It wasn't us it was our contractors!" isn't going to hold up.
It's more complicated than it seems yeah but based on the messages I've gotten so far, I'm going to hold my tongue, but Codesmith is on notice and maybe this behavior has finally caught up with them.
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Kind of sucks you have to be "vague" but then make clickbait titles like "Codesmith Grads - Stop lying on your background checks" as if it's the norm when it's not. Also, what's with "I've received a number of couple of people"? "A number" makes it sound like a ton of people whil
u/michaelnovatireplied·
A couple of people with evidence, you can't edit titles on Reddit. I see it all the time myself. DO you know how many grads applied to my company with zero experience for a senior role requiring 6 years of FAANG experience.
Codesmith leaders can't explain why, but it's the norm and not an anomaly.
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
That's the company's fault for not caring, how is it Codesmith's fault that the company doesn't do due diligence? Placing the blame on the wrong thing. I once put the wrong number for a reference and turned up "unverified". The company asked for a W-2 which I submitted and passed
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited★ FEATURED
Agreed, it's equally the hiring company's fault.
The moral point I have is that Codesmith advertises it's methods and pedagoy and Will is like a GOD TO STAFF MEMBERS.
But all of that is bullshit. He's a phony who can't code.
If Codesmith was honest about how people get jobs I wouldn't criticize them.
If someone who is smart and autodidactic just knew they could self study and put their personal project as 1.5 years of work experience thye wouldn't have to pay $22,500 for Codesmith to tell that to them.
So Codesmith keeps up this facade like the Wizard of Oz with Will Sentance manipulating everyone around him when behind the curtain, things are not as they appear.
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
"DO you know how many grads applied to my company with zero experience for a senior role requiring 6 years of FAANG experience."
I feel like we're moving away from the topic at hand here lol. What are you trying to say? I thought we were talking about Codesmith vouching for
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited★ FEATURED
Yes good point. I'm enraged right now and very upset at them.
They just posted on LinkedIn about how a grad went to Codesmith and got a $150K job at Twilio right away.... the grad went to Codesmith in 2018, got a job at Virgin and then Twilio in 2021....
They have a Dog Bot responding to me on Reddit now that is an incompentant use of AI or an idiot pretending to be AI.
But I'm losing it and sorry if I'm unprofessional about it now. I am a transparent and authentic person.
u/Consistent-Bottle231 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Wild to use the word incompetent but spell it wrong 😂😂😂🤣
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
👍 I edit my posts because I go so fast I often have spelling and grammar issues, this is one of them. Will edit.
Incompetence isn't the right word though, it's lack of diligence and rigor, holding a really low bar for your work. Having mathematical errors and telling everyone how great it is. And then constantly defending with 'it was just a mistake, it was just a mistake'. If it's a couple times sure, but if everything you do has mistakes, maybe YOU are the problem.
The amount of careless mistakes on Codesmith website, in their data, in their materials, in their research, in their curriculum and slides, in their HR practices, in their company structure and registration (don't even get me started there), everything can't be a mistake.
It's not incompetence perhaps, and it's just carelessness or negligence maybe?
u/Bubbly-Swan6275 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I have heard that #100Devs/LearnWithLeon encourages putting the bootcamp/course under work experience. It's very common because the vast majority of bootcamp grads simply cannot compete with those who have a CS degree. I don't get why people are even still attending coding bootca
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
Yeah they do and I do not agree with it and would debate him on it BUT he is transparent about it, and quite blunt.
He says stuff up to fake it and that you will be exposed like 9 out of 10 times and it just has to work once.
I really don't agree but I respect that he's clear on it.
Codesmith has a giant facade that pretends to teach people and brainwashes them to think that it was Codesmith that did it. Look the other way and blame students for doing it.
If Codesmith told people hey the job market is not fair so you have to exaggerate your experience to get through. You deserve the job and you pass the interviews so this is a means to end.
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
If you want to talk about shadiness in marketing, why does your company, Formation, post the average increase in compensation instead of the median? Everyone knows there's crazy outliers in tech, so the $766k highest compensation you guys boast about could skew the average by a l
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
We do better than that. If you apply we'll walk you through a selection of anonymized before and after outcomes for people with similar backgrounds to yourself in a table.
The high level numbers we post are to justify the cost. The ROI is insane so you should look into it more and see if it's a good fit. And then we go super deep.
It's very hard to anonymize the data and it's only a selected illustrative set of examples but it's pretty good IMO.
Since we've rolled that out it's significantly helped people understand possible scenarios based on the YOE, location, and target company type.
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Unfortunately, that response didn’t answer my question. What was the reason behind choosing to market with average compensation instead of median compensation when average is easily skewed?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
My answer is it doesn't matter that much as long as you realize your ROI is much higher than the cost.
I don't know the website data off the top of my head but for 2025 (unofficially quick math on our live tracking database) $125K average increase and median is $123K increase.
This is running match on the increase (or decrease) per person and then average OR median of those numbers.
Our live data is missing people who haven't been processed yet, we have ballpark 5 Amazon placements in the past two weeks and 5 Meta placements in the past month and that's not in there - usually those are higher.
u/VastAmphibian wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I think it's actually justifiable *to a certain degree* if it's on linkedin. hear me out on this. there's only one place on linkedin where you can list your experience. it doesn't matter what kind of experience it is. professional, volunteer, paid, unpaid, full time, part time, c
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Yeah it's a fair point but the time periods are wrong. I surveyed like 50 people's GitHubs and the people committed over 3 to 4 weeks and put 11 months of experience.
Lying about the timeframe is still lying.
u/Basic_Barnacle4719 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
100Devs straight up tells you to lie, it's a bigger red flag than any other bootcamp out there
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
I commented on a similar comment but the person deleted their comment so here is my thoughts:
Yeah they do and I do not agree with it and would debate him on it BUT he is transparent about it, and quite blunt.
He says stuff up to fake it and that you will be exposed like 9 out of 10 times and it just has to work once.
I really don't agree but I respect that he's clear on it.
Codesmith has a giant facade that pretends to teach people and brainwashes them to think that it was Codesmith that did it. Look the other way and blame students for doing it.
If Codesmith told people hey the job market is not fair so you have to exaggerate your experience to get through. You deserve the job and you pass the interviews so this is a means to end.
u/Fantastic-Pace-7766 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This is absolutely 100 percent false. I am unsure why you Codesmith students have to lie in here as well as on resumes? I guess once you learn it you learn it? Also, you blaming the companies, and saying it is not Codemsiths fault for verifying, is absolutely ridiculous. You, and
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
A number of alumni are brainwashed and don't even realize they are lying. And then they get upset or defensive when you call them out because Codesmith "changed their life".
A number of these people come around eventually and it's one of the reasons there is zero Codesmith activity anymore on here.
After people get out of the bubble they see the truth and they don't go back and Codesmith alumni network is also dying.
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Michael, your obsession to chime in on every comment is truly unhealthy. The comment is addressing me, so why do you feel the need to come in and insinuate I’m brainwashed and “lie” when I’ve said so many times I don’t recommend them right now?
Don’t even try to defend yourself
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
A good question is to ask why I'm like this.
Seek first to understand, then be understood is what Codesmith told their staff, and they should action it.
I offered to help Codesmith and some ideas to work with them. Their leaders didn't want to.
Alina confirmed to me that Codesmith paid some guy to post on Reddit and I gave her evidence that the same guy lied and tried to get me banned and that the mysterious missing founder of the Codesmith subreddit was involved with this scheme.
I offered to apologize publicly for any individual person who felt attacked by my commentary if they publicly apologizing for making shit up about me and sending it out to their community.
They declined to apologize.
Then I open up LinkedIn and see all kinds of fake made up stories that seem to rewrite history and promote Codesmith.
I hear about more and more layoffs even as of a month ago.
I hear about legal problems and disputes.
I hear about former employees considering breaking NDAs and paying the price because they are so upset with how Codesmith behaves.
And I have seen a new placement in a while, like their outcomes are falling off a cliff from where they used to be and Codesmith isn't warning anyone, just lowering the admissions bar even more - which pisses off staff FYI.
These aren't things I've heard about any other bootcamp.
Other bootcamps are talking about strategies to get placed in a tough market and specific program changes they are making for the evolving market.
Codesmith keeps talking about alumni success cases and bull shit about the community and support.
They have no actual advice on getting to get a job right now because their grads aren't getting jobs. And I still follow their grads success and the ones that get jobs have such exaggerated resumes you wouldn't believe... and Codesmith talks about these people as if Codesmith's pedagogy was the reason. No... the fact the person lied about their past job is how they got placed. The fact that they said they worked for 2 years on their OSP when they didn't and then Codesmith signed off on that is how they got placed.
The fact they effectively fired the supposed independent head of OSLabs and basically wanted her to fake being involved for appearances (she's still on the website and still has an email address) its layers and layers of manipulation.
They attacked my integrity and I'm so confident in my integrity I will not rest until everyone sees them for what they are and every single sketchy thing is accounted for and answered for.
If so many people didn't support me then I would not be so public about it but I'm not the only one who feels this way.
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Michael, your obsession to chime in on every comment is truly unhealthy. The comment is addressing me, so why do you feel the need to come in and insinuate I’m brainwashed and “lie” when I’ve said so many times I don’t recommend them right now?
Don’t even try to defend yourself
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
I didn't say anything about you. I was responding to that person about the typical grad behavior for why many Codesmith grads defend this behavior.
I had a rant that I deleted because it was not coherent. But time will tell and the truth is catching up with them.
Most people have already figured it out and apparently many remaining staff are one foot out the door.
Maybe the CEO steps down and Alina takes over and maybe brings in some funding to buy out the company for cheap and they try to build something new and sell it off for a profit later on in a consolidation of remaining bootcamp brands?
Kind of like what happened at App Academy. The founder finally left, the new CEO replaced everything with he own AI platform. They stopped doing SWE and kind of floating around as a completely different version of the program before.
Codesmith will probably follow that path and they really should just shut down and save their brand and image.
If the CEO wants to do anything after this he should shut it down and move on instead of watching it become something he is ashamed to put his name on.
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Until someone gives me receipts of Codesmith doing that, I’m going to stand by what I said. My DMs are open for Michael to send me proof. You are also making lots of assumptions about me which makes you sound bitter.
For my job, I told them during the first interview that I hav
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
1. I have a reference letter signed by Phil Troutman from a few years ago
2. I have numerous confidential chats of people telling me that Codesmith is aware of this and that everyone is aware.
3. The OSLabs directors was basically laid off a year ago but kept on the website and told to keep her email address for appearances but said that Codesmith runs the show and manages everything. They continue to puppet a fake company to do fake reference checks.
4. I know of two cases where people were asked for W2s or proof of work and both those people exaggerate the OSP experience on their resumes and both ended up getting hired without specifying how it happened. And I believe Codesmith acknowledged and helped one of those.
Conspiring to commit fraud is a jail-able crime by the way.
Puppeting a fake charity (that has no revenue reported at the IRS and is run by Annie's team at Codesmith - a team down to one person) to legitimize your students work and then signing reference letters for work that never happened (paid or unpaid) sounds like that.
And yes, proof of a small number of cases is enough for a criminal investigation, and that would uncover all of the slacks, text messages emails, letters, internal discussions about how to handle these, meeting notes, etc....
u/metalreflectslime wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Why are some companies able to detect that Codesmith graduates fake their experience, and why are some companies are not able to?
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
The questions I normally ask that specific Codesmith grads have lied about and their story fell apart:
1. What other roles did you work with (e.g. PM, design, operations, support, legal, HR, marketing, PR, release engineering) and give some examples of those
2. What was the engineer - PM ratio
3. How does the company make money and what's the business model
4. What were things that worked well and didn't work well with your manager?
On a resume:
1. if you see the word OSLabs or OpenSource Labs listed anywhere, immediate sign. We had to train our team on this because Codesmith grads were being flagged in the wrong bucket for Formation based on their resumes as team members who were not trained did not know the difference between a job and project and the amount of time specified was 1+ year.
This is normally right beside a section called "Open Source Projects" so it appears more legit. It is just an open source project too but by placing it beside a separate section of projects, it leads you to believe that the OSLabs one is a company.
2. Companies you haven't heard of with under 10 employees on LinekdIn. Do extra checking before giving the person credit
3. Education history with no majors or dates listed and just a school name
u/peppiminti wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Until someone gives me receipts of Codesmith doing that, I’m going to stand by what I said. My DMs are open for Michael to send me proof. You are also making lots of assumptions about me which makes you sound bitter.
For my job, I told them during the first interview that I hav
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I have someone recently who told me that he submitted bogus dates to Codesmith on his OSP and Codesmith signed a letter the next day and handed it to him without checking anything. He believes they are committing fraud that just signs off on whatever people tell them.
Now, this person himself lied. But he didn't use the letter for anything and was testing the system instead so he wouldn't get in trouble telling his story.
I plan on pressing on this more in the future but don't have time now.
If you are a Codesmith grad and want to confidentially send me letters Codesmith signed for bogus OSP dates, my DMs are open and I will not share your name or identifiable info.
If there is systemic fraud and Codesmith didn't verify information intentionally to have an excuse to blame the students for lying to them, then they are in huge trouble.
I don't care about getting them in trouble but I want to know the truth and Codesmith alumni - share this around and help me figure out the truth.