I'm happy to answer this factually on the record, I don't know where this is coming from but keep asking and I'll keep giving the answers.
I would like to know more specific examples of this to clarify because I don't know what you are talking about from your post.
1. I was in Codesmith's CSX Slack until I was banned and I have respected that ban since and not stepped foot in it and have not stepped foot in a Codesmith event since.
2. I have never messaged, promoted, or mentioned Formation to my recollection in CSX Slack ever. My interactions that I recall were limited to:
a) Messaging one or two OSP groups that their projects were leaking passwords publicly
b) Answered a couple of technical questions, like 5 maybe?
c) Helping the Codesmith Team understand what happened when a different Codesmith posted job postings improperly affiliated with Codesmith LLC and they thought it was an attack by someone.
3. I don't know if any of my team members are in their Slack. I was in their Slack under my personal identity and not representing Formation, and I never mentioned Formation.
4. We have had 3-4 people out of 1000+ that I know of that were considering Codesmith and came to Formation and got amazing jobs. One of them is featured in a blog post in our blog who wanted to tell his story. I know one person who was considering Formation and went to Codesmith.
5. The majority of people we work with are currently working SWEs (or recently working if laid off) and the people in #4 are an edge case.
6. We have in the past prior to 2023, worked with bootcamp grads with minimal experience after their bootcamp to prepare for interviews
7. We don't "teach" anything at Formation and you have to sign something saying you have previous education making you employable as a SWE before joining - we are currently an interview preparation platform that is solely focused on preparing you for interviews.
u/Tight_Reward2488 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
The owner of a bootcamp (or mentorship program as he likes to call it) should probably not be moderating this sub. Feels a bit self-promoting that’s all.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Why do you think Formation is a bootcamp?
u/Potatoupe wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Can you post the actual Slack messages? Didnt some Codesmith alumna go to Formation after their Codesmith experience? It sounds more like a recommendation for post-bootcamp interview prep. Unless you consider that to be competition as well.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I didn't mention that in my response but we do work with a lot of bootcamp grads later in their careers. Not on the record (my best recollection) was that Hack Reaction, Fullstack Academy, and Codesmith where roughly equal in numbers as the original bootcamp people went to.
People regularly recommend (or maybe don't recommend if they didn't like it) Formation to their friends and cohort mates from their bootcamps.
The bootcamp market has been TERRIBLE in the past two years. Codesmith's main competitor Rithm School shut down, and their other competitors like App Academy and Hack Reactor have had major changes.
I'll keep saying it, but I would like to have a call with the Codesmith team to try to understand more where each other is coming from, there's a massive misalignment right now both ways it seems.
u/RuthGreen601 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This looks like the post op refers [https://formation.dev/blog/fellow-spotlight-brian-do/](https://formation.dev/blog/fellow-spotlight-brian-do/)
"I was studying for Codesmith's interview in its preparation Slack group when someone told me that I should just do Formation"
u/michaelnovatireplied·
No one from Formation told him to go to Formation in CSX Slack. Ask him about his story before making assumptions.
u/CoastLongjumping6491 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
You honestly think this is that weird? For someone to recommend a resource that might be a good fit for a particular person, in CSX which is a community that’s supposedly all about learning and sharing helpful resources?
Or, do you realize this is actually completely normal and
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I'm going to ask Brian how he heard about us, it wasn't me reaching out and it will sure be embarrassing if it was Codesmith alumni or employee that recommended it haha. I would strongly guess it was a peer who realized Brian had already self taught to Codesmith grad level and wanted interview prep.
I don't discuss people's individual cases but I'm general, if someone is joining and Formation is not 100% good fit, we'll have that conversation. These are extremely case by case and some people join for different reasons and some people will not join for different reasons.
u/CoastLongjumping6491 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
That’s what I would guess as well. This is not something anyone would have given a second thought until recently, since as I mentioned CSX generally operates as a community for learning, helping, and sharing resources with others, not explicitly as an admissions funnel.
But now
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
I would also point out that my team (but not me) does cold outreach (searching LinkedIn and using various tools and sources to find potential fits). Even when we required less experience, as far as I know, we have always trying to target bootcamp GRADS not people earlier in their journey.
If we haven't been able to reach out to every PLACED bootcamp grad from all bootcamps, including all placed Codesmith grads, at this point then we aren't doing a good job in our outreach and connecting with our target market.
We did have a few problems with having to train new recruiters on our team specifically to identify Codesmith OSP projects NOT as "placed bootcamp grads" because there were a number cases of mistakes. This is actually one of the reasons Codesmith even got on my radar to begin with, it was messing with out funnel because a few dozen people were applying and interviewing saying they had 6 to 24 months of work experience and a chunk of those got by our recruiters and larger scale outreach checks... when all the experience was their 3 week OSP project.
Does Codesmith want to build like a wall around all of it's alumni to isolate them from the world? If they do, that sounds like a classic cult/high-control-community tactic... geez.
u/RuthGreen601 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This looks like the post op refers [https://formation.dev/blog/fellow-spotlight-brian-do/](https://formation.dev/blog/fellow-spotlight-brian-do/)
"I was studying for Codesmith's interview in its preparation Slack group when someone told me that I should just do Formation"
u/michaelnovatireplied·
MODERATOR NOTE: Reddit removed the above post around August 28th 12:10pm, not a moderator of this sub. I don't see specific reasons why they did so noted in the logs.
u/RuthGreen601 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This looks like the post op refers [https://formation.dev/blog/fellow-spotlight-brian-do/](https://formation.dev/blog/fellow-spotlight-brian-do/)
"I was studying for Codesmith's interview in its preparation Slack group when someone told me that I should just do Formation"
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Brian got back to me. He said he met another prospective Codesmith student in a live Codesmith session, who invited him to a study group and suggested he look at Formation. The person who recommended Formation did/does not work for Formation.
u/RuthGreen601 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Whether or not formation defines itself as a "bootcamp" is irrelevant. Does advertise on here? Does it take peoples money? Formation advertises "bootcamp grad open houses", this subreddit is a massive funnel for them.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Where are you getting your information from?
1. We had one Bootcamp Grad Open House and it wasn't that popular so we didn't do it again.
2. This subreddit isn't a "massive funnel", and what makes you think that? We put all of Reddit traffic under 'socials' and we don't even distinguish this sub because it's not a significant source of people.