Congrats! So Future Code NYC isn't normal Codesmith. The day to day is similar but the program is meant for people with very minimal programming experience at all, and not the same bar as normal Codesmith. If they told you that then I would be very concerned.
So I would expect to aim for much lower and adjacent-SWE jobs than people in the immersive. I would be very concerned if they tell you you can expect the same outcomes as normal Codesmith because those outcomes are not doing well right now and their strategy isn't working as well in this market and those people generally have more programming experience than you should have.
I would also expect them to have hiring partnerships setup with the city of NY and that will be key in this market.
If they don't have partnerships setup and they are telling you you will get a similar job to the immersive, then I would seriously consider leaving as that is not realistic and they might not be able to help you and you might waste six months. I would also be concerned if they tell you to not put Future Code on your resume (past versions have done this, but Codesmith students usually don't put Codesmith on their resume) or if they encourage you to frame your 1 month OSP project as 6 months of experience on your resume.
My strategy would be going all in on apprenticeships. Like Pinterest, Adobe, Dropbox, Asana, and others. And if not, then trying to get any kind of internship at the end that could turn into a full time role. I would also expect to take up to a a year to get job right now (without any hiring partnerships)
u/metalreflectslime wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
What is the cost of Future Code NYC x Codesmith?
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Paid for by NYC, 40 people selected, have to meet very stringent requirements, ex. live in NYC, make under $50K, be from a specific background, have NO TO LITTLE PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE.
u/Kittensandpuppies14 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
It's free...
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I had the same reaction haha. But in all fairness, your time is not. Even if you're making under $50,000 a year required to get into this program, 6 months of your time is $25,000 and this program's hours are a full-time job and they highly recommend you don't even do a part-time job afterwards because you're going to be so busy.
so you're really giving up a lot to do it when you could keep your job and do a part-time program costing say $8,000 over the course of the next year.
if you make $50,000 in a year and spend $8,000, you're left with $42,000.
if you quit your job and take 6 months off, you're losing $25,000.
so in some ways it's not as trivial as it sounds, but it should definitely be clarified that the specific program is covered by New York City and free
u/Warm_Ice_3980 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
14 people graduated from my cohort alongside me 6 months ago. Only 2 (including me) found a job.
The majority have returned to their old jobs.
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy★ FEATURED
I'm sorry to hear but this is what people have been telling me and it's causing tremendous distrust because in the middle of that window Codesmith updated marketing to explain how 53 offers were accepted in April-May, appearing to cover up that 6 months placement rates could be in the 15 to 20% range, in your case maybe lower.
If the wheels are falling off the bus and the driver is blasting Taylor Swift music and singing along distracted and not acknowledging wheels, people want to get the heck off the bus... If the driver knows the wheels are falling off the bus and intentionally distracting away from the situation to fill up the bus, people will shout at you to stay the heck off the bus.
u/JeffKaplanWouldSay wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I was told there are no hiring partners for this program.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
That's disappointing, but at least they told you that straight up instead of dancing around it.
I do think it's going to be extraordinarily hard to get a job with a resume that shows zero experience. I'm going to be watching these resumes like a hawk for embellishment.... no one doing Future Code should have any professional programming experience whatsoever and if their resumes present that.
So I'm not sure what I would even suggest for the grads. I think each person would need a big amount of individual strategizing on how to leverage their backgrounds and networks to find any kind of tech-adjacent role to get started post program.
u/crimsonslaya wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Like I said, I'm already working in the industry, so I have no stake in the bootcamp game. Ah yes, I'm totally gonna believe a bunch of disgruntled Reddit users vs actual credible employment reports.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
What credible employment reports are you going off of?
The only recent one I know of is Launch School, which while still has a 75% placement rate it has dropped from 100%. So clearly things are not the same anymore there.
Codesmith has a CIRR for people that graduated 1.5 to 2.5 years ago which is useless. The six month placement rates I'm seeing for 2023 abysmal. Codesmith won't let us know the official numbers until March 2025 and we won't see 2024 numbers until March 2026. So people who graduated 6 months ago in Jan 2024, even though Codesmith knows their 6 months placement rate and could give a great heads up to people about the changing market, they won't say even one hint of it until March 2026, almost two years from now.
That's absolutely garbage and they need to do better if people like you are relying on these reports to judge the market.
u/crimsonslaya wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
What's so difficult to understand? The dozens are the ones that I know personally. The rest are what I've heard via those friends/acquaintances. Anything requiring 0-2 years of experience is absolutely entry level and what most new grads go for. Entry level = new grad, dude. No o
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy
How many bootcamp grads are you hiring for those roles vs CS grads? Like the ratio between them.
u/crimsonslaya wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I work in the field therefore speak to several in the field. I personally know dozens of grads from like 5-6 different universities (good schools and not even top ranked ones) that have graduated this past May and are all currently working or will soon begin working 6 figure dev
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy
This thread spiralled but question: how many bootcamp grads are you hiring for those entry level roles that you mention hiring for vs CS grads? Like the ratio between them.
u/crimsonslaya wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Most 2024 cs/engineering grads have already secured employment. I've never witnessed this level of bitching outside of Reddit.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
This thread spiralled but question: how many bootcamp grads are you hiring for those entry level roles that you mention hiring for vs CS grads? Like the ratio between them.
u/GoodnightLondon wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
No they haven't, and it's weird to make a sweeping statement that's not supported by any data, as if it's a fact. But if you want to play that game, it would be important to note that new grad roles open 6-12 months in advance of the start date, so new grads having jobs lined up
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Top tier CS grads are getting jobs but they never really had a hard time even I the past two years.