Awesome, thanks for sharing your trajectory! This is a super reasonable trajectory for a ambitious bootcamp grad working their way up from entry level SWE To senior SWE (generally speaking, not title-wise) in 3 years.
Some questions:
1. Curious if you changed companies anywhere in there or if you stayed at the same company and got promoted.
2. I've also heard from a lot of people that Codesmith wasn't happy with them considering a < $100K job. But your trajectory really worked out so well and maybe even better, so I HAVE NO IDEA WHY. Any more thoughts on this?
3. The market is super different right now, so do you think someone with a similar background to you should start Codesmith today?
u/BornEnvironment3665 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
1. I did change companies at the SWE -> Sr. SWE jump! I went from one small startup to another.
2. I wish that Codesmith would encourage people to take lower paying jobs. While the caliber of engineer they produce is relatively high, I think a lot of grads are missing out on gre
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Thanks!
u/mrchowmein wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Wow, Grats! 3 years to staff is fast. Avg swe takes 10 years.
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
FWIW, at canonical FAANG (Meta specifically I can speak to with 95% confidence) this person would likely be an E4 mid-level. Titles don't mean much.
But it's a very good progression - doing really well at this level for a couple (2-3) years and that might pattern match to a canonical E5 senior.
(I see this kind of background often and I'm very calibrated on this)
u/Imaginary_Ad_7401 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Wow I envy you. My half my cohort mates vanished after program ended in Codesmith. Then other half vanished after getting offer. 😂😂
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Did you graduate in 2023? It sounds like some cohorts were super engaged and close and others completely ghosted and disappeared.
Any thoughts on this? I wonder if it's a scaling issue or certain instructors.
u/Imaginary_Ad_7401 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I graduated right at the start of 2022. Just took me longer to find a job cuz I learn slow.
Don’t think it was the instructor because the cohort before and after mine were both super close. As in they set up many events to meet in-person (Same lead instructor for the whole year)
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
My theory for this is that I see ebbs and flows with how much demand there is to get in. When demand is low and cohorts are open until the last minute, they let in people who more recently got into the community and are less engaged. When there is a backlog, they have people clamoring for months to get in and they let in the most "Codesmith"-y people who will perpetuate the culture and spread the good word.
u/BornEnvironment3665 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This is a good take that I hadn't considered before.
I don't think demand was as high as it's peak when I started (no long wait list but I believe our cohort was full well in advance), but we definitely had a strong cohort of "Codesmith-y" people. (PS Cohort if you're reading th
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Yeah attending workshops and full ahead of time counts in my theory haha.
End of 2023 people were being let in like 2 days before and one in particular was absolutely not a good fit and it was not good for them or Codesmith that they got in.
Now that they shrunk down do like 25% of their peak capacity hopefully they will stabilize at a 30 person solid cohort filled up a few weeks ahead of time.
The people I know who work there say that leadership is terrible at forecasting and appears to make changes every few weeks at all hands meetings that are reacting to the current state of things. Like they paid bonuses to admissions people who filled cohorts - which resulted in people getting pushed to their 2nd and 3rd interviews days apart to rush them to get in.
Their website is full of so much randomness now: career accelerator courses, paths to prepare for Codesmith, future code for NYC residents, it's like they are jumping the shark to offer 10X more stuff with 1/2 the staff members.
I haven't said this publicly yet, but repeated whack-a-mole style approach to changes is a factor in why I stopped recommending people go there until we see if these announced changes happen and if they are committed to iterating on them until the work.
u/tenchuchoy wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Very very similar progression to you. I have a BS in human biology and worked in cancer research before jumping to SWE.
2019 81.5k Senior Research Associate - Attended a coding bootcamp part time
2020 95k Software Engineer - Pivoted to SWE
2021 100k Software Engineer
2022 125k S
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited★ FEATURED
A couple of Codesmith alumni are constantly on my case and claiming that I'm trying to put down Codesmith and get people to go to Formation instead. Now I don't really want to talk about Formation but I'm going to try to use this as an example of my constant points about this and I hope this doesn't seem like an advertisement.
(Apologies to the commenter that I used this comment as an example)
But this trajectory is not that uncommon and in fact it can be improved beyond this for those that want to prioritize work and want to work at big tech, and that's what FORMATION does. We help at that 2021/2022 mark in this trajectory to get to the E4 mid-level $300K job at top tier tech companies. We are NOT designed to help with the 2020 first job like Codesmith does.
Now not everyone wants to do that, but for people that do, you pay around $10K to Formation to hopefully make that 2023 jump to $200K, or that 2023 jump a jump to $300K, and more importantly, for those jumps to be in really IMPACTFUL and REWARDING roles.
And that is a very reasonable service for us to offer for a reasonable price if you are someone who wants to commit to that kind of jump.
Anyways sorry if this seems out of nowhere, I hope those Codesmith people read this and it helps explain what I do and where I'm coming from and that I'm not trying to steal Codesmith students.
u/BornEnvironment3665 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Michael - we're connected on LinkedIn. Mind if I PM you and ask a couple questions about Formation? I'm a while out from considering Big Tech I think, but curious for some more specific questions.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Yeah sure always happy to chat with people and give my 2 cents. You can't make "big tech" jumps overnight and there's a lot you can do on the job now to set yourself up for the future too and would love if I had some good advice to help with that.
u/starraven wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Hello Michael, was wondering if there is a public discord or slack for Formation or is it only for people who are taking the program and alumns thanks 🙏
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
We have a private chat server yeah, no public ones. We have a small numbr of public events but not many.
I always recommend people do the free TIRA benchmark because it gives you an idea of where you are at, and we'll also notify you of upcoming sessions and events and get you in the system.
We also have a 21 day coding challenge you can sign up for on our website.
But that's about it at this time.
u/Imaginary_Ad_7401 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Just wanted to add. Even though I also benefited immensely from Codesmith, I know of others who also blame Codesmith and feel they deceived them and never landed a job offer.
But I also noticed the difference between me and them is that they just kept stuck on the … “I didn’t le
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited★ FEATURED
I think Codesmith is responsible for 1. letting these people in in the first place. 2. making sure they are progressing and doing what they are supposed to.
You as a random alumni probably should be unofficially responsible for helping people do their work... they are paying almost $22K for 13 weeks - $1700 a week.
u/Imaginary_Ad_7401 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Er… I mean I wasn’t even in the same cohort as one of them. I did everything I could of. Not sure how responsibility falls on me when the other party stopped trying and I kept finding ways to encourage and reach out.
Weird thing to say since I struggled just as hard learning in
u/michaelnovatireplied·DELETED · archived copy
I think there was a misunderstanding, or maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but I didn't mean to blame you for anything at all! Sorry!
u/Imaginary_Ad_7401 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Er… I mean I wasn’t even in the same cohort as one of them. I did everything I could of. Not sure how responsibility falls on me when the other party stopped trying and I kept finding ways to encourage and reach out.
Weird thing to say since I struggled just as hard learning in
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I think there was a misunderstanding, or maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but I didn't mean to blame you for anything at all! Sorry!
I typo'd SHOULD instead of SHOULDN'T, hopefully it makes more sense now
u/InternetMedium4325 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Hey, I am very interested in this. You mind if I PM you?