u/RachelMartinezCIRR wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Great Question. CIRR schools have previously engaged independent auditors that use principles that are similar to generally accepted accounting standards in doing audits. (aka GAAS/GAAP),
In performing an audit, a wholistic view of the "transactions", in this case, student
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
Codesmith students often put their group project as a company and some people don't label that as unpaid work. I have asked dozens of recruiters I asked who mistook these for real companies (and only a handful who didn't!)
Would these projects get picked up as companies by an auditor for LinkedIn verification? The auditors presumably have even less context than industry recruiters, unless they aren't really independent and get more context from Codesmith, no?
Anyways, I'm not sure how much you personally look at audits and maybe this is more of a question for Codesmith directly.
u/RachelMartinezCIRR wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
This is a good question, and I cannot speak to one schools auditors methodologies. In what I have experienced when doing these audits as a bootcamp is that the auditors are very thorough, and this would be picked up. The other thing is that a code school submits initial document
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Thanks! Yeah I think beefing up the spec around how salary and jobs are verified would help... I think it's really reasonable that programs try everything to report outcomes from people who ghost, but I think students would find it interesting to know the tactics used. Like having instructors message ghosted people and offer them things or leverage their friendships to try to get any kind of placement info to use for CIRR.
Maybe CIRR could make the reporting form a single official document that all students need to submit for the information to count and bootcamps are required to use this form. Instead of casual texts with a buddy you mentored who graduated and gathering their salary that way.
u/RachelMartinezCIRR wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Schools have to try out a myriad of approaches to track down students, and this varies largely from program to program. I know it seems simple, like, send them a form, but trust me, it is anything but. Its basically herding kittens usually to track down results.
Students ge
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
At Formation (we aren't a bootcamp or school and CIRR doesn't work for us) but we have a 95%ish completion on our rigid success form because we work with people intensely until they get a job.
The fact that it's so hard to gather outcomes from people is a sign that the longer and longer time goes by post-bootcamp, the less and less the bootcamp has anything to do with the outcome. And the fact that the more time goes by the harder and harder that gets, is also notable for this.
My 2 cents against using the 12 month window for placements, but that's a whole other discussion haha.
u/RachelMartinezCIRR wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
I would argue that we could make CIRR work for any educational institution. IF you have a product, you have an outcome. If that product is educational in nature, you fit in CIRR. If you have any kind of outcomes, then we can find a way to do honest reporting that is validated.
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
Yeah we're not an education institution either, we're just a mentorship platform and don't even teach anything!
u/MundaneValuable7 wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
46% of Ernst and Young audits had flaws last year, do you think that Is a concern when relying on his past experience to show credibility?
https://www.ft.com/content/10f30eb4-188e-4ca0-b218-d1579b3754fd
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Nothing's perfect but an audit and having independent eyes on something can't hurt. I just think it's super important that everything is interpreted with critical thinking instead of "it's audited so it's must be good"
u/metalreflectslime wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
> A very interesting notable point is that numerous people have come back to Formation again for future job hunts and paid us again to go through the same mentorship experience
So if someone joins Formation, gets a paid SWE job, pays the ISA (15% of 1st year's salary), then if t
u/michaelnovatireplied·· edited
We don't have those ISAs anymore but yeah pretty much but usually these are a few years apart. If someone is laid off we will consider the circumstances and where the person is at that point time.