Bootcamps enrollment is way down. Codesmith's NYC cohort starting Monday was still conducting interviews as of Thursday and they keep moving back deadlines. They are also doing an "apply-a-thon" to give people prizes for applying.
Rithm has said demand remains strong as has Launch School - but both are smaller programs.
On the plus side, the market is picking up and people are asking me more questions about going to bootcamps so maybe that will change in a few months.
u/joeyfosho wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
By what metric are you seeing the market picking up?
July fiscal budgets should help in some instances with hiring, but there’s still many, many SWEs with experience out of work taking whatever they can get… particularly in the HCOL markets.
I know someone in NYC with almost
u/michaelnovatireplied·
I help run a coaching and mentoring platform and we work with hundreds of experienced engineers to prepare for and find jobs. In the past month or two we've seen a large increase in interviews, onsites, and offers. I don't have exact numbers (we're working on that too) but anecdotally, there were many more offers in June and we hope this trend continues.
That said, there are people who are really struggling and the market remains difficult and you'll see opinions and experiences all across the board, which is why having a birds eye view is useful.
Competition remains high. For example a top candidate might interview at all the top companies and get 2-3 offers instead of 6-7 - where many of the rejections the person passed the technical bar, but another candidate was more experienced or qualified.
u/joeyfosho wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Love to hear that, but what you’re saying is the market is recovering some for engineers with experience.
It will trickle down for sure as the market continues to recover and the experienced engineers get scooped up again… but we’re a LONG ways off from the market recovering to
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Correct, market is not good for people with no experience and particularly bad with bootcamp grads. We work with a small number of bootcamps grads, to be the strongest they can be and those people still take a really long time to find jobs,.
u/joeyfosho wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Love to hear that, but what you’re saying is the market is recovering some for engineers with experience.
It will trickle down for sure as the market continues to recover and the experienced engineers get scooped up again… but we’re a LONG ways off from the market recovering to
u/michaelnovatireplied·★ FEATURED
By the way, it totally trickles down. So we generally support people getting jobs at top tier companies and more people have been taking positions at good-but-not-top-tier companies that in the past Codesmith-level grads were getting, and Codesmith-level grads are getting jobs that less good reputation bootcamp grads were getting, and then those people are not getting any jobs.
u/joeyfosho wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Do you have an average stat on application to offer for those bootcamp grads? I’d assume if they’re working with you for help, they probably represent the most motivated and competitive bootcamp grads on the market.
u/michaelnovatireplied·
Correct, they are generally motivated and also can afford a super expensive service after just doing an expensive program generally from past success and savings.
I don't have meaningful stats because it's not enough people, but the range is 2 months to 14+ months and counting (we work with you for as long as it takes with no limits)
u/InTheDarkDancing wrote (the comment Michael replied to):
Anecdotally I'd agree. A year ago you'd see all sorts of big name companies in the Codesmith celebrations slack, and nowadays while there's still a good cadence of celebrations, the majority of the time I've never heard of the company.